Around the NHL - Part XLII - (2023-24 Season edition)

[will1066]

Do not insult my turtles comparing them to those guys. lol.

Crosby - Shredder
Malkin - Baxter Stockman/Fly mutant dude
Letang - Kraang

All villains, I see.

 

[Levitate]

This team traded for Patty Kane thinking he was the missing link to a championship. Let's look at our glass house before throwing stones at the Igloo.

Wildly different circumstances to say the least! The Rangers were a comfortable playoff team that went to the ECF the year before and were looking to put themselves over the top (not to mention Kane forced his way here), but didn't commit to Kane as anything more than a rental.

Pittsburgh wasn't a playoff team last year and are committed to Karlsson's remaining contract (though I'm sure they'll trade him if they can re-coup stuff in 3-4 years) and are hoping to not only get back into the playoffs but manage to squeek out a cup win.

That said, I stand by my statement that it makes sense for them to do this.

 

[JCProdigy]

Dubas is the Pens GM. He still has to answer to his owners. I'm sure they made their intentions clear of going for it as long as Crosby/Malkin continue to draw breaths, during the hiring process with him. Within that framework, this is a logical trade for him.

 

[LokiDog]

They have won with that core( Malkin, Letang, and Crosby) multiple times. Nothing more to lose, It's like one last ride or two going into the sunset. I think they know this is it for awhile.

But with that said, once that trio is gone, Pittsburgh will be in for some painful seasons, and with such a poor prospect pool will take them even longer since they have to recoup those assets. This is why I hate trading 1st round picks.

It's also very frustrating that they win the lottery multiple times, get players like Crosby and Malkin, win multiple cups, and here we are with F'ing Laffy Taffy. lol.

I mean, this is what it comes down to. Crosby isn’t done yet. He’s still playing at a high level and he doesn’t want to leave the Pens. I can respect that. So we have an aging but still elite generational talent who brought the Cup to Pittsburgh 3x and isn’t done but doesn’t want to leave.

He’s followed by two very good aging players who shared in all 3 Cups and are going to stick around if Sid is. That pretty much means they have no choice but to do their best and get the best result they can out of this group before they hang them up. Rebuilding with all three of them sticking around would be a slap in the face to the players and the fans. If any of the players had opted to move on and pursue winning over staying together and finishing their careers where they all started, together, you could probably side with the team on choosing to rebuild, but if they’re all still playing at a “relatively” high level and Sid is still pretty elite than what can you do?

So they get rid of Granlund and Petry contracts and bring back Karlsson at the same cap hit. Jarry isn’t anything special, but he’s also definitely in the category of good enough to get hot and suffice - there’s been plenty; Binnington, Murray, Huet, Hill? Karlsson, Letang, Pettersson, Graves is hardly the worst top four in the league. They added Noel Acciari, Lars Eller and Reilly Smith. They have Crosby and Geno, Guentzel, Rust, Rakell… I mean, it’s an older group but it isn’t ancient. Carter is the old man and then Malkin is the oldest. He’s Ovi: age. Crosby is 1.5 years younger and still damn good. Karlsson is 2 years younger than him and just won the Norris.

I don’t think they’re going to win anything, but I also wouldn’t bet against them before the season’s even begun. Experience also counts. Guentzel, Rust, Reilly Smith. These guys are all tested and capable top six wingers with playoff pedigree. Sid and Geno speak for themselves. Karlsson is still looking for a Cup but has shown he very much can still dominate. This isn’t the joke of a roster people want it to be. It’s an old roster that only has 1 or 2 kicks at the can and then - unlike a roster like ours that maybe has like “this window” with Panarin and Kreider but then can retool and potentially have another window when Fox is 30 - it’s pumpkin time for them. But I think they do know that. I don’t have an issue with a pretty damn historic group like 87, 71 and 58 sticking together and going out swinging. Adding EK65 makes it interesting. They’ll go for it as best as they can and I’d bet they fall short but manage to make it interesting at least one post season. I bet adding Karlsson adds a little fuel to the “let’s get one more” fire for the old guard as well.

 

[haohmaru]

Big disagree.

Shesterkin is a big part of this team, but if we've learned anything, good goalies are always available. And great goalies are a luxury, not a requirement.

Some people around here won't appreciate good goaltending until we finally don't have it anymore. I mean, this franchise sucks monkey dick at centers but their goaltending has been otherworldly pretty consistently for 30+ years - Richter, Vanbiesbrouck, Lundqvist, Shesterkin and others that have had pretty solid NHL careers elsewhere - Talbot, Georgiev, Cloutier, Blackburn (injured), etc...

Just wait until Shesterkin isn't re-signed and we sign a budget average goalie. This place will melt down on a nightly basis.

 

[LokiDog]

If Malkin, Letang, Crosby and Karlsson were Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles instead of Penguins, who would be which turtle?

@Leonardo87 shouldn’t be so offended by the comparison. I think it works nicely.

Crosby is Donny. He wears the C, but I don’t think he’s Leo. He’s the brains. He’s pretty serious. Some people would say he has a distinctly purple - pink, even - aura, but in fairness, he’s outgrown that whining and diving stuff, so maybe that’s just an outdated coincidence.

Geno is Raphael. He has an attitude. Temper tantrums ensue. But you can’t deny he was elite. The biggest a-hole of the group, but sometimes that edgy temper lead to some badass moments.

Letang gets Leonardo. I think he’s always been overshadowed playing behind Sid and Geno and would be viewed more like a Josi in his prime if he hadn’t gotten to fly totally incognito behind two giants. He’s got leadership and heart (and came back from two strokes)… and his name is the closest to Leonardo.

Karlsson is Michelangelo. He clowns around a bit and he’s maybe the less proven than his esteemed peers. Also the youngest. He’s got a jovial, free ranging style of play as well and if mistakes happen, it’s okay, because he’s gonna bring that tubular, radical, sweet, gnarly offense on the next shift.

And if somehow that has made the Penguins into good guys, I’ve gotta do the Capitals as their nemesis.

Ovie = Master Shredder. I mean, name alone. He’s the master of shredding goalies from that one spot with that one shot that everyone knows is coming and still goes in non-stop.

Wilson - Beebop and/or Rocksteady. This one is even simpler than Ovie. Muscled up henchman lacking in IQ.

Baxter Stockman - Backstrom. It even sounds like Backstrom. And it’s like a scientist or something that became a fly but I always thought of him as brainy and Backstrom wasn’t super fast or slick but was definitely known as a brainy, cerebral play maker.

 

[will1066]

Wildly different circumstances to say the least! The Rangers were a comfortable playoff team that went to the ECF the year before and were looking to put themselves over the top (not to mention Kane forced his way here), but didn't commit to Kane as anything more than a rental.

Pittsburgh wasn't a playoff team last year and are committed to Karlsson's remaining contract (though I'm sure they'll trade him if they can re-coup stuff in 3-4 years) and are hoping to not only get back into the playoffs but manage to squeek out a cup win.

That said, I stand by my statement that it makes sense for them to do this.

I would contend that the gap wasn't as a big as you might be making it. The Pens missed the playoffs on like their last two games of the season due to an untimely implosion. Otherwise they would've been a WC and not the Isles. This team limped into playoffs as the 3rd division seed. Lots of people will also argue that we got to the ECF because of a few fortuitous things. And also, some people here were contemplating handing Kane an extension before he even dressed for his first game lol. Long story short, though, I agree that the move makes sense for them.

 

[Levitate]

Some people around here won't appreciate good goaltending until we finally don't have it anymore. I mean, this franchise sucks monkey dick at centers but their goaltending has been otherworldly pretty consistently for 30+ years - Richter, Vanbiesbrouck, Lundqvist, Shesterkin and others that have had pretty solid NHL careers elsewhere - Talbot, Georgiev, Cloutier, Blackburn (injured), etc...

Just wait until Shesterkin isn't re-signed and we sign a budget average goalie. This place will melt down on a nightly basis.

Richter's final years weren't particularly great but we're lucky as hell that when he went out, there was really only a year of random garbage (then a lockout) before Lundqvist came on the scene

Goalies can be found "anywhere" but you're always kinda rolling the dice whether they turn into a pumpkin in the playoffs, or you need to be damn sure the rest of your team is so good that the goalie isn't going to sink the whole thing.

e: like, you can have some "meh OK" guys in your lineup and get by (as long as you also have talent there) but if your goalie is "meh, OK most of the time" then it can end your playoff run real quick

 

[Hire Sather]

Some people around here won't appreciate good goaltending until we finally don't have it anymore. I mean, this franchise sucks monkey dick at centers but their goaltending has been otherworldly pretty consistently for 30+ years - Richter, Vanbiesbrouck, Lundqvist, Shesterkin and others that have had pretty solid NHL careers elsewhere - Talbot, Georgiev, Cloutier, Blackburn (injured), etc...

Just wait until Shesterkin isn't re-signed and we sign a budget average goalie. This place will melt down on a nightly basis.

I'd rather have the elite center than the goalie.

I've said it before. I'm sick of having the better goalie in every playoff series we ever play but when it comes to who gets the better goaltending in the series it's a toss up

Or we do get the better goalie play but it's not by much because the other guy is good enough to win

 

[DialUp]

I mean, this is what it comes down to. Crosby isn’t done yet. He’s still playing at a high level and he doesn’t want to leave the Pens. I can respect that. So we have an aging but still elite generational talent who brought the Cup to Pittsburgh 3x and isn’t done but doesn’t want to leave.

He’s followed by two very good aging players who shared in all 3 Cups and are going to stick around if Sid is. That pretty much means they have no choice but to do their best and get the best result they can out of this group before they hang them up. Rebuilding with all three of them sticking around would be a slap in the face to the players and the fans. If any of the players had opted to move on and pursue winning over staying together and finishing their careers where they all started, together, you could probably side with the team on choosing to rebuild, but if they’re all still playing at a “relatively” high level and Sid is still pretty elite than what can you do?

So they get rid of Granlund and Petry contracts and bring back Karlsson at the same cap hit. Jarry isn’t anything special, but he’s also definitely in the category of good enough to get hot and suffice - there’s been plenty; Binnington, Murray, Huet, Hill? Karlsson, Letang, Pettersson, Graves is hardly the worst top four in the league. They added Noel Acciari, Lars Eller and Reilly Smith. They have Crosby and Geno, Guentzel, Rust, Rakell… I mean, it’s an older group but it isn’t ancient. Carter is the old man and then Malkin is the oldest. He’s Ovi: age. Crosby is 1.5 years younger and still damn good. Karlsson is 2 years younger than him and just won the Norris.

I don’t think they’re going to win anything, but I also wouldn’t bet against them before the season’s even begun. Experience also counts. Guentzel, Rust, Reilly Smith. These guys are all tested and capable top six wingers with playoff pedigree. Sid and Geno speak for themselves. Karlsson is still looking for a Cup but has shown he very much can still dominate. This isn’t the joke of a roster people want it to be. It’s an old roster that only has 1 or 2 kicks at the can and then - unlike a roster like ours that maybe has like “this window” with Panarin and Kreider but then can retool and potentially have another window when Fox is 30 - it’s pumpkin time for them. But I think they do know that. I don’t have an issue with a pretty damn historic group like 87, 71 and 58 sticking together and going out swinging. Adding EK65 makes it interesting. They’ll go for it as best as they can and I’d bet they fall short but manage to make it interesting at least one post season. I bet adding Karlsson adds a little fuel to the “let’s get one more” fire for the old guard as well.

I hate that you are right.

 

[haohmaru]

I'd rather have the elite center than the goalie.

I've said it before. I'm sick of having the better goalie in every playoff series we ever play but when it comes to who gets the better goaltending in the series it's a toss up

Or we do get the better goalie play but it's not by much because the other guy is good enough to win

If this franchise has proven anything in its nearly 100 year history it's that we suck at drafting centers and, when we have the 1OA or the 2OA, the best player available isn't a center.

 

[LokiDog]

I hate that you are right.

As always…

 

[Profet]

If this franchise has proven anything in its nearly 100 year history it's that we suck at drafting centers and, when we have the 1OA or the 2OA, the best player available isn't a center.

Fixed it for you.

 

[RGY]

Penguins are not better than us. They weren’t better than us the last two years and they won’t be better than us next year with all their guys now 2 years older. Stop drooling over the EK trade. Their goaltending, defense, and forward depth are all not better than ours.

 

[LokiDog]

Penguins are not better than us. They weren’t better than us the last two years and they won’t be better than us next year with all their guys now 2 years older. Stop drooling over the EK trade. Their goaltending, defense, and forward depth are all not better than ours.

It’s one of those things though, where realistically, the league has so much parity and all that’s required is - for example - we lose Fox or Shesty for 15 games, or Zib has a 70 point season, or Kreider reverts to 55 points, or Miller has a stagnant year and Schneider struggles. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh gets one of the next three years where all of the vets are healthy the whole year and Jarry has, not a Vezina season, but just a top 15-20 year and the Pens can make a final run.

It doesn’t have to be “better” or “worse”. It’s the NHL in 2024. Teams rise and fall based on who farted in the locker room at the wrong (or right, hey… you never know) time. Pittsburgh is older but they’re not as geriatric as people are acting. The likelihood, I agree, is that we don’t finish behind them any time in the next 3 years and they don’t accomplish their goal of one last Cup, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see them make a run this year or next.

 

[SRHRangers]

The Pens trade was a no brainer for them.

They are doing right by Crosby and doubling down.

And when they are done, they were tanking regardless.

The cherry on top was that they save a few mil in cap in the process

 

[LokiDog]

We all know it’s meaningless, but everyone besides this goalie I can’t identify have one thing in common:

Current/former NYR.

Zegras of NY remains an RFA

 

[RGY]

It’s one of those things though, where realistically, the league has so much parity and all that’s required is - for example - we lose Fox or Shesty for 15 games, or Zib has a 70 point season, or Kreider reverts to 55 points, or Miller has a stagnant year and Schneider struggles. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh gets one of the next three years where all of the vets are healthy the whole year and Jarry has, not a Vezina season, but just a top 15-20 year and the Pens can make a final run.

It doesn’t have to be “better” or “worse”. It’s the NHL in 2024. Teams rise and fall based on who farted in the locker room at the wrong (or right, hey… you never know) time. Pittsburgh is older but they’re not as geriatric as people are acting. The likelihood, I agree, is that we don’t finish behind them any time in the next 3 years and they don’t accomplish their goal of one last Cup, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see them make a run this year or next.

But you can say that about pretty much 95% of the league. If X Team lost Y Player for 20% of the season or longer then there year would be a struggle and likely unsuccessful. And I would say there is a more of a chance of Pittsburgh being saddles with that injury scenario than a multitude of our Players regressing to even the playing field. Pittsburgh is old af. And the same way you can posit Kreider could regress, Lafreniere could take the next step and progress to 50-60 point range. He was at 40 last year. So it becomes a wash.

And this is just a discussion between you and I here. I am more taking a jab at some of the others in this thread who were fawning over the EK trade and pegging them above us.

 

[haohmaru]

Fixed it for you.

You didn't fix anything. Every team in the NHL would've drafted those two. It's not worth discussing.

 

[Profet]

You didn't fix anything. Every team in the NHL would've drafted those two. It's not worth discussing.

Yes.. they were the perceived can't miss, best players available... Yet they weren't.

 

[effen]

This team traded for Patty Kane thinking he was the missing link to a championship. Let's look at our glass house before throwing stones at the Igloo.

I 1000% believe the rumor Dolan pushed for it and made it happen. An injured old Pat Kane is the opposite of ~everything Drury has added to this team.

 

[Turin]

Is it me, or is there no amount of work that can save the shit sandwich that is the Erik Karlsson trade?

Malkin and Crosby are a stiff breeze away from a retirement home.
They have little depth.
Their prospect pool is laughable.
Jarry is the very definition of mediocre.

I get that Kyle Dumbass didn't give up much, but when you have barely anything of value to begin with, even a little bit is entirely too much. I can't find any conditions on that 1st rounder and it is entirely possible that the Penguins miss the playoffs this year.

Crosby and Malkin are generational players. They tend to age gracefully and when age eats away at their physical skills their experience and elite hockey sense remains. When they both retire they will likely still be very good NHLers.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

They have won with that core( Malkin, Letang, and Crosby) multiple times. Nothing more to lose, It's like one last ride or two going into the sunset. I think they know this is it for awhile.

But with that said, once that trio is gone, Pittsburgh will be in for some painful seasons, and with such a poor prospect pool will take them even longer since they have to recoup those assets. This is why I hate trading 1st round picks.

It's also very frustrating that they win the lottery multiple times, get players like Crosby and Malkin, win multiple cups, and here we are with F'ing Laffy Taffy. lol.

I said it a week ago, the Rangers were in good shape to draft Ovechkin and Crosby in back to back years but instead the hockey gods gave us Krappo and Laugh. Imagine a young NYR team consisting of Crosby Ovechkin and Hank.

 

[haohmaru]

Yes.. they were the perceived can't miss, best players available... Yet they weren't.

Rangers' luck.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Crosby and Malkin are generational players. They tend to age gracefully and when age eats away at their physical skills their experience and elite hockey sense remains. When they both retire they will likely still be very good NHLers.

Ahh. Yes. That's why Malkin has played one full season in the last 10 years and from 2019-2022 he missed 127ish games? Sure he and Crosby played 82 last year, but injuries are a factor with both of them.

They're both old. When you get old, you get injured more often. I'm skeptical they will remain healthy.

This is a bad move, made by a bad GM, clinging to an aging core and is prolonging the inevitable. If they tear it up and to the ECF or SCF, will happily eat crow.