Around the NHL (Part XIII): RIP Bob Suter

[Hawkaholic]

The Hawks didn't make anything easy for Crawford vs. St. Louis or Minny imo.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Cleary got a RAISE?!

 

[Kurtosis]

Cleary got a RAISE?!

Read the thread on the Wings board, it's something else.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Brunette has been named an assistant coach of the Wild

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/10/wilds-brunette-will-serve-as-an-assistant-coach/

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

The anger/disappointment of Wing fans is understandable

They just brought back Babcock/Holland's version of Handzus

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He didn't need to be. The Blues team we played from game 3 on was probably not even a playoff caliber team with the state of their forward corps. Everyone was hurt. Some were playing at about 40%. How quickly people forget that they didn't score more than 2 goals and were shutout three times in their last nine games of the regular season... and that was WITH Backes. Once Seabrook blew him away, that series was over. So if we are going to give any credit to anyone, it's probably Brent.

As for Minny, they will never be a match for the Hawks. They haven't had an offense worth mentioning in at least eight years, mostly because of chicken%@*$ '90s style coaching.

It is easy to look good against teams like that.

Here's the thing, Chris. The goalie is the most important position on the team. This means the goalie has more impact on the game than any other single player by default. Starting goalies in the NHL all have to be able to win games that their team isn't playing strong in, or they are not starting goaltenders. Crawford absolutely is a starting goalie and is quite capable of winning games.

I think you would agree with that. But here's where we diverge. You see Crawford as winning games and therefore he is elite. I see him as doing absolutely nothing that other starting goalies in the league wouldn't do just as well with the Hawks in front of him. Not the worst of the starters, of course. But nothing special either. Because watching other teams play without having the Hawks in front of them shows just how easy a time Crawford actually has of it out there compared to what other teams' goalies have to deal with.

Many fans here only really see other goalies when they PLAY the Hawks - the best offensive team in the last five years or so, often significantly so. So they routinely see guys like Kane and Toews scoring and routinely see the other goalies getting hammered, while Crawford almost always has a much easier offense to deal with. But that's not typical leaguewide. If Crawford had to play against the Hawks... well, take a look at his L.A. performance. He held them under 3 goals once, under 4 goals twice, in seven games, and averaged four goals against per game. This is more than Niemi in San Jose, more than the platoon of goalies Anaheim used, and more than Lundqvist gave up even prorating to seven games. Crawford was the weakest goalie the Kings faced in four playoff rounds, albeit with a big asterix in the case of Gibson. I know, some people are going to blame the defense, and it's true, the Hawks have the weakest defense of the four teams the Kings played... but not THAT much weaker (9 more goals against throughout the regular season than the Ducks, 19 more than the Sharks, and 22 more than the Rangers), and were still in the top half of the league.

So while you argue "well he wins games", I say "yes, he does... but so can everyone else." I ask "is Crawford doing anything that most the other starters in the league couldn't do?" You may say yes, you may not. But that's why I don't see Crawford as a top goalie. With a team that has the puck as much as the Hawks do with as much depth as the Hawks do, what he does just isn't that impressive, and he probably should not have been given that contract. If the Hawks ever lose that depth that allows them to generally dominate other teams all over the ice, we'd see what he was REALLY made of, just like we see what Hawks backups are made of away from the Hawks (cough Emery). But whenever we get an apples to apples comparison, he just doesn't seem to really be that good relative to the other starting goalies of the league. Quite average, really. Not among the worst, not among the best. So I just can't give him the credit you and others do.

One more thing. A lot of people blame the Hawks defense, or team defense, for goals against. There is actually a goaltender related reason for the way the Hawks frequently collapse down low - Crawford gives up absolutely gigantic rebounds, and does it all. the. time. The coaches have decided to make up for this by making sure there are more Hawks near the crease or slot than opposing players (at least in theory).

I am not really going to get into Schneider - I don't like to judge goalies early in their careers - but I will absolutely compare Crawford to a very similar goalie in terms of the situations they are in... Osgood. Crawford is the Hawks version of him.

Chris Osgood has over 400+ wins and multiple cups as a #1

I don't think anyone would have issue with Crawford being Osgood 2.0. Osgood was not great but he was good goalie

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

The anger/disappointment of Wing fans are understandable

They just brought back Babcock/Holland's version of Handzus

heh heh...only without the offense Handzus brought last year

I can't blame them for being irrate...and because of Quincey, too...another player that not only was re-signed but that Holland gave a raise to.

In general, the Wings fans have very good reason to be pissed off about the state of the team. As much as some of us (myself included) complain about the treatment of prospects - I've had the view for a while that the much lauded Wings' 'development system' wasn't doing the team many favours. I get they've drafted late a lot (and frequently traded their 1st) - so they don't have the high picks. But I think its been a mistake to keep prospects in the AHL for as long as they have - when the alternative has been aging vets.

They may prove me wrong and be fine - this year I actually had them just missing the playoffs - so I was wrong on that one. But I just look at the team and the way its structured and think they're going to be hurting for a while once their top players - who are up there in the years - retire or fade.

There was some comment in the press after July 1 that the Red Wings weren't doing well to attract desirable UFAs at this point - and that will probably just compound things if that keeps up.

 

[Chris Hansen]

Ike, I don't think Crawford is elite. I just think he's done more than enough to be justifiably labeled better than Cory Schneider.

St. Louis' forward group was banged up, sure, but they still generated a ton of chances. The Hawks played horribly against both the Blues and Wild. And Minny had one of the league's better offenses in the second half of the season. That team's depth is pretty scary.

He was Chicago's best player against St. Louis and made a ton of brilliant saves. I absolutely disagree that you could put any old decent NHL goalie in his spot in that series and produce the same result. Crawford was really, really good, and it sure as hell wasn't the pathetic Chicago defense making him look good. Again, they were brutal (shout-out to my bae BWC!) all throughout the playoffs. When Crawford finally faltered, the Hawks got eliminated.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

Ike, I don't think Crawford is elite. I just think he's done more than enough to be justifiably labeled better than Cory Schneider.

Fair enough...

St. Louis' forward group was banged up, sure, but they still generated a ton of chances.

The difference between a quality opponent and a lesser one is not the chances generated - it's that the chances go in. You can put an AHL team on the ice and they could outwork the Hawks and generate chances... but they'd still get blown out. Even the worst teams in the league can generate scoring chances. They just can't score on them.

That's why I don't take these claims that the Blues or the Wild "outplayed" the Hawks seriously. Scoring chances for lesser players are less likely to end up goals.

The Hawks played horribly against both the Blues and Wild. And Minny had one of the league's better offenses in the second half of the season. That team's depth is pretty scary.

I am not scared of the Wild and probably never will be while they remain a defense first and only team.

He was Chicago's best player against St. Louis and made a ton of brilliant saves.

As every starting goalie in the league does. Also, see above.

I absolutely disagree that you could put any old decent NHL goalie in his spot in that series and produce the same result.

That is your right, and obviously we won't ever agree. I say they not only can, but actually have, as Emery proved.

When Crawford finally faltered, the Hawks got eliminated.

From my perspective, when he finally met a team the Hawks couldn't coast through on talent, his true colors shone through.

We will just talk in circles on this subject from now on, I am sure, so as a final word here is something I wish would happen a lot more often.

 

[Chris Hansen]

You can't really think the Hawks coasted through Minnesota on talent. Most of the big names were horribly inconsistent in that series and the Wild dominated both possession and scoring chances in almost every game. Crawford was unbelievable. How can we say any solid starting goalie would have put forth the same performance? Why should we expect, say, a Jimmy Howard type to be turning aside 10 high-quality chances in the same position just because Crawford managed it? That doesn't make sense.

The crux of your argument is that Crawford is made to look better by the team in front of him. Yet even when the team in front of him was clearly playing some terrible hockey, he shined. To suggest any other decent NHL starter would have done the same thing as him doesn't jive with that at all - the "Chicago is just a great team" thing flies out the window when they're bleeding chances against like the Oilers.

FWIW, Emery managed that solid year in the one season in which the Hawks were an excellent defensive team. 2012-13 was an anomaly in that respect. They have been a disaster in the defensive zone every single year since and including 2010-11, other than that one.

Last word is fine, though. Arguing about Crawford has been beaten to death and we're just going to go in circles, as you said.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

If "any" starting goalie could have put in the performance that Crawford did against the Wild then why didn't Vezina finalist Varlamov the previous series?

 

[Bubba88]

Holland is one of the worst GMs

 

[No Fun Shogun]

In the category of "nothing is happening" news, THN is doing a daily breakdown of all thirty NHL logos and ranking them. As of right now....

29) Colorado
30) Carolina

Thinking we'll rank highly.

Also, watch my pet peeve come up and have them rank the Rangers way too highly for a logo that they don't even wear.

 

[Ace Rothstein]

I expect the Hawks, Red Wings, Canadiens and Bruins to take the top four spots in that list.

 

[Taze em]

The Rangers need new jerseys in a bad way. The diagonal writing was a 80s/90s thing and has aged terribly.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 5m
Nashville has signed Mike Ribeiro. One year deal worth about $1-million.

 

[Kurtosis]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 5m
Nashville has signed Mike Ribeiro. One year deal worth about $1-million.

Wow, has his career ever taken a nosedive.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The Rangers need new jerseys in a bad way. The diagonal writing was a 80s/90s thing and has aged terribly.

 

[Bubba88]

I like what Poille has done with Ribeiro and Roy

 

[Cullksinikers]

I kind of geek out with sports gear, but this is really cool. This is a PDF of all the gear Reebok, CCM, and the NHL are releasing for the upcoming season. It has all the shirseys, hats, ASG gear, SPD gear, etc. in it. Pretty cool. I figured that if at least one other person appreciated it, it was worth posting.

http://www.usasportsconnection.com/sports/licensed-products/mens/Reebok/2015/Reebok-SP15-NHL.pdf

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

I definitely appreciate that. Thanks for posting!

 

[Nothingman*]

I kind of geek out with sports gear, but this is really cool. This is a PDF of all the gear Reebok, CCM, and the NHL are releasing for the upcoming season. It has all the shirseys, hats, ASG gear, SPD gear, etc. in it. Pretty cool. I figured that if at least one other person appreciated it, it was worth posting.

http://www.usasportsconnection.com/sports/licensed-products/mens/Reebok/2015/Reebok-SP15-NHL.pdf

I thought the CCM gear was more up my alley.

 

[Taze em]

I mean that it became super popular in the 80s/90s. Every jersey I had in youth hockey was the diagonal lettering. That type of jersey went out of style with cooperalls and yet the Rangers are still rocking it.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Who gives a flying **** it 'became popular', the Rangers entire history is based around it. All that crap was teams copying them, and fortunately, they all died away while they were allowed to continue to have their thing.

 

[Kurtosis]

TIL IU takes his jerseys seriously.