NHL Around the NHL - Offseason moves and rumblings II - Habs trade Max67 to Vegas

[BMC]

my first real bruins memory

My condolences.

 

[BruinDust]

Fenian loves his Russians.

Semin - Khokhlachev - Austin Czarnikov

The Russian-Fenian Connection

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

I think Joe Thornton being a choker ran Joe Thornton out of town.

And Tyler Seguin ran himself out of town and off the team, make no mistake about that folks.

I've been a Bruins fan for 50 years. If that guy comes back, I might cease to be one.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Semin - Khokhlachev - Austin Czarnikov

The Russian-Fenian Connection

I knew there was something about Czarnik......

 

[ON3M4N]

and deserved it, perfect example of all the tools but no tool box, aka heart, desire, compete level, grit, all those silly intangibles that if they didn't matter like many analytic people believe Hamilton would be a superstar instead of a Alex Semin on D.

Oh I never said it wasn't warranted, but he was another guy that got torched by the media.

 

[BruinDust]

I knew there was something about Czarnik......

You could probably replaced Czarnikov with Connor Shearyov.

 

[BMC]

And Tyler Seguin ran himself out of town and off the team, make no mistake about that folks.

I've been a Bruins fan for 50 years. If that guy comes back, I might cease to be one.

Hey Roll! Great to see you posting again!

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

You could probably replaced Czarnikov with Connor Shearyov.

If that all fails the Bruins still have in-house Andyrs Bjorkov.

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

Hey Roll! Great to see you posting again!

Hi Beems, and thanks!

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I will try not to make this about the particular player in question... but this whole 'hes the best player on a crappy team so hes not the reason they are crappy' argument...

I will answer... theres always a best player on every team. when your best player is better than the other teams best player... you gain an advantage. when your worst player is better than the other teams worst player... you gain an advantage

hockey is a series of fluid matchups. you hope your team doesn't have a breakdown where the other team capitalizes. and you hope your team can break through the other teams defense to get enough goals to win

most teams are reliant on looking at their best players to rise to the occasion and score the goals that are needed to win the close games because theres a lot of parity between most teams

you can get by on lucky breaks up to a certain point... but they often balance. defense is easier to coach than offense to most of the lineup. so its really the very skilled guys that are necessary to tilt the results and raise your team from suck to not suck

if your best players lose their matchups... your team has no chance of ever getting a sniff of the playoffs

you cant say a best player plays on one non playoff team after another... without eventually being forced to point the finger at them and say they aren't getting the job done of winning their matchups

what the hell are you going on about winning matchups? Seguin and Benn win their matchups almost every night (even against the Bergeron line on occasion). They are undeniably elite players. It's the rest of that team that doesn't get the job done.

It's truly astonishing to me that someone who has watched hockey for as long as you have doesn't understand that a hockey team has a 20 man roster and that it's stupid to blame a single player for a franchise's continued mediocrity when that player is consistently one of the best players in the world by ever reasonable metric.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

what the hell are you going on about winning matchups? Seguin and Benn win their matchups almost every night (even against the Bergeron line on occasion). They are undeniably elite players. It's the rest of that team that doesn't get the job done.

It's truly astonishing to me that someone who has watched hockey for as long as you have doesn't understand that a hockey team has a 20 man roster and that it's stupid to blame a single player for a franchise's continued mediocrity when that player is consistently one of the best players in the world by ever reasonable metric.

trust me... there are guys who winning follows around... guys who elevate a bad team to good and good team to great

and there are guys who mysteriously play on bad teams year after year... who play on teams that are predicted to be great on paper but end up failing when put to the test of real games.

I specifically said I wasn't talking about any specific player in the post you quoted back to me. I wish you would read more accurately if you want to call me stupid. as for the specific player in question here... lets see what happens

steve yzerman once upon a time had a rep for being a bit of a loser... an underachiever who put personal glory ahead of team success. its one of the more famous cases in nhl history how scotty bowman sat him down... talked it out... taught yzerman how to change his mindset and put team success first. Eventually yzerman carved out a rep as one of the greatest players in nhl history.

the winning mattered...

I am not going to write seguin off as someone that can't improve his ability to win. Joe thornton improved. Phil Kessel improved. Blake Wheeler improved. Quite often, guys will make improvements in their character as they get a bit older and they start to understand this concept better.

and maybe you will also understand it better as you get a bit older?

but thanks for calling me stupid when you didn't read what I was saying

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

trust me... there are guys who winning follows around... guys who elevate a bad team to good and good team to great

and there are guys who mysteriously play on bad teams year after year... who play on teams that are predicted to be great on paper but end up failing when put to the test of real games.

I specifically said I wasn't talking about any specific player in the post you quoted back to me. I wish you would read more accurately if you want to call me stupid. as for the specific player in question here... lets see what happens

steve yzerman once upon a time had a rep for being a bit of a loser... an underachiever who put personal glory ahead of team success. its one of the more famous cases in nhl history how scotty bowman sat him down... talked it out... taught yzerman how to change his mindset and put team success first. Eventually yzerman carved out a rep as one of the greatest players in nhl history.

the winning mattered...

I am not going to write seguin off as someone that can't improve his ability to win. Joe thornton improved. Phil Kessel improved. Blake Wheeler improved. Quite often, guys will make improvements in their character as they get a bit older and they start to understand this concept better.

and maybe you will also understand it better as you get a bit older?

but thanks for calling me stupid when you didn't read what I was saying

and there are guys who are hall of fame, all world players that never win a cup. You chastise me for not reading accurately, but the problem is you can't make a salient point. And I didn't call you stupid, I called your argument stupid. As for Yzerman...yeah, way to cherry pick a guy who played for some of the deepest teams in NHL history, including the one with the most single season wins ever. When the Wings won the cup in 97, Yzerman had 13 points in 20 games...4th on that team. Even after Bowman's sitdown with Yzerman, he was nearly traded before the 96 season. You could argue that Yzerman almost proves the argument in favor of Seguin because he's the perfect example of a guy that repeatedly fell short of his coach's expectations but the team stuck with him and it worked out in the end. Yzerman is what Seguin might have become if the Bruins hadn't panicked and traded him.

In any case this whole discussion started with the question of whether adding Tyler Seguin to the Boston Bruins made sense. You yourself already said he'd be a great add for the Bruins. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

and there are guys who are hall of fame, all world players that never win a cup.

Jarome Iginla as a prime example.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

and there are guys who are hall of fame, all world players that never win a cup. You chastise me for not reading accurately, but the problem is you can't make a salient point. And I didn't call you stupid, I called your argument stupid. As for Yzerman...yeah, way to cherry pick a guy who played for some of the deepest teams in NHL history, including the one with the most single season wins ever. When the Wings won the cup in 97, Yzerman had 13 points in 20 games...4th on that team. Even after Bowman's sitdown with Yzerman, he was nearly traded before the 96 season. You could argue that Yzerman almost proves the argument in favor of Seguin because he's the perfect example of a guy that repeatedly fell short of his coach's expectations but the team stuck with him and it worked out in the end. Yzerman is what Seguin might have become if the Bruins hadn't panicked and traded him.

In any case this whole discussion started with the question of whether adding Tyler Seguin to the Boston Bruins made sense. You yourself already said he'd be a great add for the Bruins. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here.

if the price is right...I can imagine a way to fit nearly half the nhl onto the bruins. more and more it becomes about fitting guys into the right role at the right cost.

the days of being able to just bury your mistakes when you give the wrong guy too much money are done and gone and have been so for quite some time

am I surprised dallas has had no success with seguin there? if you look at my posts when he was traded you will see I predicted it. I also predicted Toronto would have no success with kessel… but then kessel did have success in Pittsburgh so you can see that my logic has certain limits

I know what I think... and how I think. I know my argument with kessel was all about him as the lead dog pulling the sled. when I said a team with kessel as its best player wont win anything... I wasn't talking about Pittsburgh

context is king

that's a new saying im going to steal and use. ive been listening to the Eric bischoff podcast 83 weeks and he had some philosophies about wrestling that eventually proved gold... but then forces above him with the time warner/turner merger combind with a bunch of the wrestlers letting success go to their heads just gutted what eric was trying to do. he went from runaway success to head of a company out of business in just a couple years

because... context is king. you might understand how to be a winner... but that doesn't mean you can win every time you try even when you do everything you can to follow the formula. sometimes theres greater forces against you and you have to study the context to get a handle on each individual case that comes along

as for seguin then and his individual case... I would take him back here and i would pay him as i admit a few times now but looking at the context of who he is and who we are i have to say I wouldn't really want him here now as our 'leader.' I do see a great opportunity here because the Bergeron/marchand contracts are so amazing. I think they can continue to be our leaders. call it the Pittsburgh model if you will. we can put seguin into the kessel role and just have the luxury of adding him in as a deadly weapon. and if he never turns into a leader? or a strong 2 way player? its ok...

you and I agree about one thing... hockey is a team sport and you cant necessarily lay the blame or credit of winning or losing on just 1 or 2 players.

for me... winning and losing hockey games comes down to winning and losing matchups. the league has such strong parity now. its hard to really find a lot of disctinction on one teams stars to the next team... one teams bottom feeders to the next team...

on paper... everyone says our guys have a chance. I mean I just say the hockey news Is predicting Calgary in the final 4 this year. on paper they think Calgary will be there. last year, on paper... Edmonton was a vegas favorite to win the cup

on paper... theres very little to distinguish teams and almost every fan base says our guys can win if this and that and this and that and that and this falls into place

but that's where im getting at... all the that and this... that's what we call the matchups... the actual battle on the ice... the doing more good things than bad things.

last year hall won the mvp because no one else on his team could score. people said he is so valuable because hes a 1 man show. I disagreed... shouldn't a valuable player elevate those around him? gretzky earned his rep not just because he scored points himself... but the saying was a fire hydrant could score 40 as his winger.

Mario lemiux too... turned Wendell young into a 40 goal guy

I think its very important if a great player wants to be considered better than other great players... he needs to be able to elevate teammates. he needs to be able to carry a bad team to a level of respectability. he needs to be able to push a good team over the top and capitalize

I see someone toss out that jarome iginla never won a cup... but he led his team against all odds to the finals. I AM NOT AND NEVER WAS SOMEONE THAT ARGUED ITS CUP OR BUST. in fact ive made probably 100 posts here where I talk about just being better. improving... exceeding your own expectations.

ive said that not every kid in a class can get the higest mark... but that doesn't make them all losers. a and b grades should be considered good... c grades aren't great but if a kid is used to d's and gets a c... then he should be applauded for stepping up his game

taking us back to seguin and my feelings on him... I think our team could use the raw offense seguin represents. I think him and pastrnak together could be awe inspiring. but I would never want them as my top guys unless I had people like Bergeron and marchand around to do the dirty heavy lifting.

seguin is what he is in dallas… him and benn are amazing... and their team still loses because there are no bergeron/marchands there. seguin and his buddy benn haven't been great enough to elevate any of their support guys to that level.

so that's my argument. not that seguin isn't great. just that there are levels of greatness that separate themselves from one guy to the next. for me... you do need to have some winning on your resume before I can call you a winner

 

[Chief Nine]

if the price is right...I can imagine a way to fit nearly half the nhl onto the bruins. more and more it becomes about fitting guys into the right role at the right cost.

the days of being able to just bury your mistakes when you give the wrong guy too much money are done and gone and have been so for quite some time

am I surprised dallas has had no success with seguin there? if you look at my posts when he was traded you will see I predicted it. I also predicted Toronto would have no success with kessel… but then kessel did have success in Pittsburgh so you can see that my logic has certain limits

I know what I think... and how I think. I know my argument with kessel was all about him as the lead dog pulling the sled. when I said a team with kessel as its best player wont win anything... I wasn't talking about Pittsburgh

context is king

that's a new saying im going to steal and use. ive been listening to the Eric bischoff podcast 83 weeks and he had some philosophies about wrestling that eventually proved gold... but then forces above him with the time warner/turner merger combind with a bunch of the wrestlers letting success go to their heads just gutted what eric was trying to do. he went from runaway success to head of a company out of business in just a couple years

because... context is king. you might understand how to be a winner... but that doesn't mean you can win every time you try even when you do everything you can to follow the formula. sometimes theres greater forces against you and you have to study the context to get a handle on each individual case that comes along

as for seguin then and his individual case... I would take him back here and i would pay him as i admit a few times now but looking at the context of who he is and who we are i have to say I wouldn't really want him here now as our 'leader.' I do see a great opportunity here because the Bergeron/marchand contracts are so amazing. I think they can continue to be our leaders. call it the Pittsburgh model if you will. we can put seguin into the kessel role and just have the luxury of adding him in as a deadly weapon. and if he never turns into a leader? or a strong 2 way player? its ok...

you and I agree about one thing... hockey is a team sport and you cant necessarily lay the blame or credit of winning or losing on just 1 or 2 players.

for me... winning and losing hockey games comes down to winning and losing matchups. the league has such strong parity now. its hard to really find a lot of disctinction on one teams stars to the next team... one teams bottom feeders to the next team...

on paper... everyone says our guys have a chance. I mean I just say the hockey news Is predicting Calgary in the final 4 this year. on paper they think Calgary will be there. last year, on paper... Edmonton was a vegas favorite to win the cup

on paper... theres very little to distinguish teams and almost every fan base says our guys can win if this and that and this and that and that and this falls into place

but that's where im getting at... all the that and this... that's what we call the matchups... the actual battle on the ice... the doing more good things than bad things.

last year hall won the mvp because no one else on his team could score. people said he is so valuable because hes a 1 man show. I disagreed... shouldn't a valuable player elevate those around him? gretzky earned his rep not just because he scored points himself... but the saying was a fire hydrant could score 40 as his winger.

Mario lemiux too... turned Wendell young into a 40 goal guy

I think its very important if a great player wants to be considered better than other great players... he needs to be able to elevate teammates. he needs to be able to carry a bad team to a level of respectability. he needs to be able to push a good team over the top and capitalize

I see someone toss out that jarome iginla never won a cup... but he led his team against all odds to the finals. I AM NOT AND NEVER WAS SOMEONE THAT ARGUED ITS CUP OR BUST. in fact ive made probably 100 posts here where I talk about just being better. improving... exceeding your own expectations.

ive said that not every kid in a class can get the higest mark... but that doesn't make them all losers. a and b grades should be considered good... c grades aren't great but if a kid is used to d's and gets a c... then he should be applauded for stepping up his game

taking us back to seguin and my feelings on him... I think our team could use the raw offense seguin represents. I think him and pastrnak together could be awe inspiring. but I would never want them as my top guys unless I had people like Bergeron and marchand around to do the dirty heavy lifting.

seguin is what he is in dallas… him and benn are amazing... and their team still loses because there are no bergeron/marchands there. seguin and his buddy benn haven't been great enough to elevate any of their support guys to that level.

so that's my argument. not that seguin isn't great. just that there are levels of greatness that separate themselves from one guy to the next. for me... you do need to have some winning on your resume before I can call you a winner

996 words. Can’t you just respond with a short, concise answer?

 

[BruinDust]

so that's my argument. not that seguin isn't great. just that there are levels of greatness that separate themselves from one guy to the next. for me... you do need to have some winning on your resume before I can call you a winner

I hope you've gone out and gotten a patent on your Greatness-O-meter.

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

Pretty damn good contract Calgary got Hanifan signed for. 6 years at $4.95 per. Damn good deal for Calgary.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

996 words. Can’t you just respond with a short, concise answer?

Being smarter than all of us requires mile long posts.

 

[Chief Nine]

Being smarter than all of us requires mile long posts.

I really am amazed that someone can regularly post these soliloquies* which are just mind numbing. My Bruins hat is off to those who actually do take the time to read, digest and analyze then respond to these insane ramblings. All I know is when I see them on my iPad it takes half an hour to scroll by them and then I see the responses from the folks who respond, and just about all of them are tearing up the content regularly.

I think it's time for a new strategy @Alberta_OReilly_Fan . This one seriously ain't working


*noun, plural so·lil·o·quies.
1. an utterance or discourse by a person who is talking to himself or herself or is disregardful of or oblivious to any hearers present (often used as a device in drama to disclose a character's innermost thoughts):
Hamlet's soliloquy begins with “To be or not to be.”
2. the act of talking while or as if alone.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I really am amazed that someone can regularly post these soliloquies* which are just mind numbing. My Bruins hat is off to those who actually do take the time to read, digest and analyze then respond to these insane ramblings. All I know is when I see them on my iPad it takes half an hour to scroll by them and then I see the responses from the folks who respond, and just about all of them are tearing up the content regularly.

I think it's time for a new strategy @Alberta_OReilly_Fan . This one seriously ain't working


*noun, plural so·lil·o·quies.
1. an utterance or discourse by a person who is talking to himself or herself or is disregardful of or oblivious to any hearers present (often used as a device in drama to disclose a character's innermost thoughts):
Hamlet's soliloquy begins with “To be or not to be.”
2. the act of talking while or as if alone.

I do got my 3 or 4 fans that love to pat themselves on the back with their little attempts to censor me that's for damn sure... sorry they tie up your thread

as for me... simple solution... use your ignore button. I actually cant understand why some of you cant figure that one out. meanwhile thanks for your care and your opinion how to help me improve my life. hope you have a great day and just because I value your time and don't want you to have to waste it... please keep your suggestions to me to yourself. you obviously get far more value out of them than I do

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Being smarter than all of us requires mile long posts.

and yet having nothing to say still seems to get someone to say it 1000 times

Donnie we get it ok... damn boy I feel horrible how deep into you ive gotten. are you able to have a normal life? you haven't lost your job with all this obsession have you? damn... I wish I could cut you loose. I was mean offering to let you get a motel room because I never had any intention of giving you a mercy ride. really... truly... I just see absolutely no attraction to you. you have NEVER posted anything useful ever...

dude... im sorry that I own you. that was never my intention... but for your own sake of your sanity you got to move on. weve heard this same crap out of you 100 times now... move on with your life and accept that you and I will never get it on in that motel you dream about

 

[Number8]

Absolutely

Who can forget him missing an open net in the triple OT game 1 in the 1990 Finals down the end they came out

GARBAGE

Stop it...... everytime I nearly get over that mousy mustached ginger blowing that and enabling Peter frigging Klima put a knife in us someone raises it again. How the hell am I supposed to ever heal?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

996 words. Can’t you just respond with a short, concise answer?

if I had nothing to say I suppose I could.

aren't you capable of putting someone on your ignore list?

oh look... short, concise. I guess when I don't give a damn about who or what im talking about with then yeah I can be short and concise... fancy that

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

Soooooo......

How do you think the Hanifin signing will affect a possible Nurse deal?

 

[DKH]

Stop it...... everytime I nearly get over that mousy mustached ginger blowing that and enabling Peter frigging Klima put a knife in us someone raises it again. How the hell am I supposed to ever heal?

I was there - horrible