Around The NHL Discussion 2021-22 Part II

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542365

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Mar 22, 2012
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I can’t see Q and Chevy keeping their jobs. They not only knew(according to the report), but they doubled down on their denials over the summer. It’s an awful look for the NHL to keep these guys around. Pretty fortunate that the Blues didn’t end up with Q when we hired Berube. He was definitely my top choice at the time.
 

Stupendous Yappi

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While I understand where you’re coming from, I just can’t agree with that. This is so much bigger than not punishing the Panthers. Q should never coach again, full stop. He helped enable a sexual abuser by turning a blind eye just to try to win. He can’t be allowed to coach.
I'm not advocating here. I'm just not sure what the tools are. Quenneville isn't part of the CBA for players. I don't know the details of what authority is there for Bettman, and a lot of comments here seem to have learned more about Q's role in this than what I've read. I think his situation is more complicated. Maybe the leadership of the Panthers make it a lot simpler by forcing him out.

I was trying to imagine what it would feel like if the Blues had a scandal like this. I think I would probably lose my interest in following pro hockey if 'my team' had an incident that went through the entire leadership like ths.
 

mk80

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Jul 30, 2012
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Kevin Weekes reporting he is hearing a coaching change coming in Florida. Mentioned Torts as a potential replacement.
Maybe he wouldn't want the job but honestly Torts could be a good fit for the Blackhawks if they get rid of Colliton. Hockey wise he could help turn them around with his style, but also on and off the ice he seems to hold his players accountable, has show that he cares about his players underneath the rough exterior, and he has said he protects his players. So he would also be a good fit to help set the culture of the team, and begin the rebuild of that.
 

Bye Bye Blueston

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So all you know is wah wah do something but if someone asks a question you have no answers? Ok gotcha.
Brian answered you already, but the larger point is they had a moral obligation to investigate the allegation and instead decided it was a distraction from their playoff run so they ignored it. And then gave Aldrich positive review and let him leave after another allegation. And Aldrich then assaulted another kid. Because Blackhawks failed to do decent thing initially. Which isn’t to blindly assume truth of allegation, but to take allegation seriously and make sure that it was investigated. Which they didn’t do. Because they didn’t care.
 

Xerloris

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Brian answered you already, but the larger point is they had a moral obligation to investigate the allegation and instead decided it was a distraction from their playoff run so they ignored it. And then gave Aldrich positive review and let him leave after another allegation. And Aldrich then assaulted another kid. Because Blackhawks failed to do decent thing initially. Which isn’t to blindly assume truth of allegation, but to take allegation seriously and make sure that it was investigated. Which they didn’t do. Because they didn’t care.

See? That didn't seem like it was hard to do. I appreciated Brians reply because I didn't know about there being a second allegation, the only thing I knew what that they gave him a recommendation and he assaulted a child later. What do they do though while investigating? Do they remove the coach during a playoff run to the finals? Do they remove the victim from the situation? Or do they remove both? I genuinely do not know how they should have handled it, whether that be legally or morally without possibly screwing one person or the other. In hindsight it's obvious. I'm not trying to troll here or be a dick, I am asking questions I would like to get legitimate answers to.
 
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See? That didn't seem like it was hard to do. I appreciated Brians reply because I didn't know about there being a second allegation, the only thing I knew what that they gave him a recommendation and he assaulted a child later. What do they do though while investigating? Do they remove the coach during a playoff run to the finals? Do they remove the victim from the situation? Or do they remove both? I genuinely do not know how they should have handled it, whether that be legally or morally without possibly screwing one person or the other. In hindsight it's obvious. I'm not trying to troll here or be a dick, I am asking questions I would like to get legitimate answers to.
I don’t know what exactly they should have done. But I know they should have cared. And not ignore it because it was inconvenient. These type of allegations should always be taken seriously. They may have found it was consensual. Or didn’t happen even. But instead they buried it. Because it wasn’t their priority. Beach wasn’t their priority. And Aldrich assaulted other people. And yes, I think evidence points toward Aldrich assaulting Beach. But we only know that because 10 years later law firm investigated. 10 years too late.
 

Celtic Note

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I don’t know what exactly they should have done. But I know they should have cared. And not ignore it because it was inconvenient. These type of allegations should always be taken seriously. They may have found it was consensual. Or didn’t happen even. But instead they buried it. Because it wasn’t their priority. Beach wasn’t their priority. And Aldrich assaulted other people. And yes, I think evidence points toward Aldrich assaulting Beach. But we only know that because 10 years later law firm investigated. 10 years too late.
I just don’t understand internal investigations on these matters. Clearly, objectivity will be difficult to achieve without 3rd party involvement even for moral organizations. If they even do them at all (Hawks as a case in point).
 
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See? That didn't seem like it was hard to do. I appreciated Brians reply because I didn't know about there being a second allegation, the only thing I knew what that they gave him a recommendation and he assaulted a child later. What do they do though while investigating? Do they remove the coach during a playoff run to the finals? Do they remove the victim from the situation? Or do they remove both? I genuinely do not know how they should have handled it, whether that be legally or morally without possibly screwing one person or the other. In hindsight it's obvious. I'm not trying to troll here or be a dick, I am asking questions I would like to get legitimate answers to.
To the bolded: Yes. You absolutely put him on leave. Even if it’s paid leave, get him away from the team while you’re investigate. If one of your players accuses a coach of committing a felony against him, you can’t possibly keep him around the team while you investigate it.

Even if it’s determined to be consensual, it’s wildly inappropriate for a coach to be involved with a player like that.
 

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I just don’t understand internal investigations on these matters. Clearly, objectivity will be difficult to achieve without 3rd party involvement even for moral organizations. If they even do them at all (Hawks as a case in point).
Often times company has hr do them. But outside investigations can be better. But the point here is the Blackhawks did nothing. Not internal, not HR, not external, nothing. Until lawsuit a decade later. So regardless of what best practice would be, Hawks didn’t do it.
 

Celtic Note

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Often times company has hr do them. But outside investigations can be better. But the point here is the Blackhawks did nothing. Not internal, not HR, not external, nothing. Until lawsuit a decade later. So regardless of what best practice would be, Hawks didn’t do it.
Right. I am agreeing. The whole system of reporting is messed up.
 
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I just don’t understand internal investigations on these matters. Clearly, objectivity will be difficult to achieve without 3rd party involvement even for moral organizations. If they even do them at all (Hawks as a case in point).
Roughly 15 years ago I had employee come to me with allegation of what was basically sexual harassment against her by another employee. I listened to her, expressed sympathy for what she described, and told her I would get back to her after I spoke to HR. This was harassment and not assault, admittedly. But I had no idea this could have been occurring. I thought I hired only good folks. I was in charge of the department, and while I didn’t know either employee well, both of these employees reported to a supervisor who reported to me.

I went to HR. HR laid out what alleged victim’s options were- formal complaint where HR would investigate, informal complaint where I would investigate, or she could handle it herself (basically tell him to not be a jerk). But it was her choice.

Now this was small company, but we had processes and it was driven by desire of victim. She chose informal complaint. I investigated (allegation was primarily email harassment so I was able to review email and make determination without much difficulty) and he was terminated when he showed up for work the next day. So it can be done. But it requires listening to victim, company wanting to investigate, and then doing right thing. It’s not always easy but can be done.

Blackhawks did exact opposite of what should have been done.
 
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Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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I just don’t understand internal investigations on these matters. Clearly, objectivity will be difficult to achieve without 3rd party involvement even for moral organizations. If they even do them at all (Hawks as a case in point).
Internal investigations (done in conjunction with a company's HR and legal counsel) can be very helpful.

With that said, too many victims rely way too much on them based on an assumption that "we're like a family" or "this organization's goal is to do right by me." If you or a loved one are a victim of something at work (or honestly anywhere), the best thing you can do is find an attorney. The next best thing you can do is remember that any agency/company/office/detective/prosecutor/etc is not legally required to have your best interests as their top priority. There is often significant overlap between a victim's interests and the top priority of whatever organization we're talking about. But it is risky to rely on that assumption.

Both of these statements can simultaneously be true: Victims shouldn't rely on their employer to properly handle a situation like this. The way this employer handled this situation was horrific and deserving of league/reputational punishment.

One lesson from this is that the NHL needs to make changes to avoid systemic breakdowns in the protection of their employees. Another lesson is that no matter how good a job they do, more people need to be aware of the rights/resources/options they have if they are victimized.
 
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Celtic Note

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Internal investigations (done in conjunction with a company's HR and legal counsel) can be very helpful.

With that said, too many victims rely way too much on them based on an assumption that "we're like a family" or "this organization's goal is to do right by me." If you or a loved one are a victim of something at work (or honestly anywhere), the best thing you can do is find an attorney. The next best thing you can do is remember that any agency/company/office/detective/prosecutor/etc is not legally required to have your best interests as their top priority. There is often significant overlap between a victim's interests and the top priority of whatever organization we're talking about. But it is risky to rely on that assumption.

Both of these statements can simultaneously be true: Victims shouldn't rely on their employer to properly handle a situation like this. The way this employer handled this situation was horrific and deserving of league/reputational punishment.
I agree. The attorney route is something we should be communicating to the masses. But how many know that, assume they have to pay for legal counsel, they cannot afford to pay assumed fees and forego it all together?
 

ChicagoBlues

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Oct 24, 2006
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Crap Holy!!

Just read a couple pages on the Leafs' board. Dubas has blown out their realism thermostats so much that most think this is a hometown discount type of deal and that he must really want to be in Toronto.

Business matters have become so distorted in Toronto that 8ys at 7.5 AAV for Morgan Rielly is a good deal.
 

PocketNines

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Toronto and Edmonton have been glaring cautionary tales for teams with plenty of top end offensive talent and no real #1 defensemen. They hit the playoffs and it's poof
 

Bye Bye Blueston

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Crap Holy!!

Just read a couple pages on the Leafs' board. Dubas has blown out their realism thermostats so much that most think this is a hometown discount type of deal and that he must really want to be in Toronto.

Business matters have become so distorted in Toronto that 8ys at 7.5 AAV for Morgan Rielly is a good deal.
Compared to contracts signed last summer, that is huge discount.
 
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