Around The NHL Discussion 2021-22 Part II

[Ranksu]

Could this had affect Cody Beach career also? He is Kyle Beach brother.

Respect Kyle came out and gave his name out.

 

[tfriede2]

Eh, these guys are professional hockey players. They're not necessarily the highly trained PR guys you'd want to be in charge of messaging in a crisis like this that has nothing to do with their strengths. I can give guys a pass if they make some bonehead quotes here. I don't think it means they are condoning what happened. The perpetrator is the guilty person here, and the people who were in authority and knew what happened who chose not to act are also guilty.

I'm curious about what happens with Quinneville. Will this turn into a distraction for Florida? I think he's going to be asked some pretty difficult questions. I don't know enough about the ownership at Florida to know whether they'll be willing to endure a little public heat to keep him. I'm guessing they will due to current circumstances. It does make one glad he didn't come to St Louis when he was rumored after Hitchcock.

Q is meeting with Bettman tomorrow. He’s as good as gone. No way he keeps his job.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Could this had affect Cody Beach career also? He is Kyle Beach brother.

Respect Kyle came out and gave his name out.

I can't say it did or didn't. Cody never had the ceiling that his brother did.

 

[Ranksu]

I don't disagree with your main point here, especially when talking about individual players (or Pietrangelo, specifically). But if you're talking about teams, every point matters for every team that's not a powerhouse. Teams only have around a 20% chance to make the playoffs if they're out of playoff position at USA's Thanksgiving. That's closer to 20 games for most teams this season. I don't actually know if this is true, but it seems like most coaching changes happen in the first couple weeks of December. The Blues have definitely made a few around that time.

You are right.

After 25 games it's time to re-evaluate if things aren't going right way anymore.

It happened in Blues.

But main point is that it's just early start. 6 games played.

 

[Ranksu]

Makes my stomach hurt and really hard to watch that interview.

NHL did hide it. Did Bettman knew?

This goes bigger end. Not good at all.

I understand there is group pressure for players not help victim. Afraid of getting yourself teased, but still it shows how sick ppl are if there is clear message from above. It's Cup' time. Still young adults should understand what is wrong and what is right .

Older ppl under team. Coaching staff and other ppl. They are family people and they allowed young kid adulthoot get destroyed.

 

[Memento]

Cried at Beach's interview. Just a braver individual than most people - including myself - could ever be.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I’m of the opinion that there’s no way news of this didn’t make it all the way to Bettman. There’s no way he didn’t know, and frankly there should be an investigation to find out.

 

[Frenzy31]

I’m of the opinion that there’s no way news of this didn’t make it all the way to Bettman. There’s no way he didn’t know, and frankly there should be an investigation to find out.

I don't think this made it to him. It did in 2018, which is why there was an investigation, but not likely during 2010. Blackhawk Ownership for sure would have know about the allegation, but not the NHL Comish.

I don't think he would be made aware of the day to day operations of any one hockey team. This was covered up by the Blackhawks and even now they are circling the wagons. Getting the info to the Comish would have brought it to light much sooner as he would have had to act prior to 2018.

 

[Majorityof1]

I 100% agree with everything you said. How sad does your team have to be for the only player that feels remorse for an event is a player who was 12 years old still in middle school when the event took place.

Debrincat also said: "I understand why him and the Blackhawks had to part ways. I get it. My time with Stan, he's been nothing but great to me. But, like I said, I understand the reasoning. With everything that happened, it's probably a good thing that we parted ways."

Stan's been nothing but great with you? What does that matter in this situation. It's probably a good thing? Probably? Not as strong or as great a quote. He is also not the only player to show remorse. Connor Murphy said:

"It was a very sad day to see that release and to hear those stories. Your heart goes out to the victims. It's a very serious thing, that's very sad and tragic that happened." -Source for quotes, USA Today

It may be a minor gripe about Debrincat and not exactly a moving speech by Murphy; however, I just don't get why the board is putting Debrincat on a pedestal here and throwing every other current Blackhawk player under the bus. We have to get over over-analyzing every little things athletes say in these interviews. We can rarely get their true feelings on a thing. They often misspeak as I am sure Debrincat did when he said "probably". And the others may not even be that eloquent, but it doesn't mean they don't feel remorse or sympathy either.

That said, the players who were there at the time should be answering some difficult questions. While their statements may show some token remorse (ref: Kane and Toews, I have not seen Crawford, Sharp, Hjalmarson, Brouwer, or Keith say anything), I think they need to go further in light of their alleged complicity in furthering the trauma. I don't think any other current Blackhawk besides those 2 was on that team.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Q is meeting with Bettman tomorrow. He’s as good as gone. No way he keeps his job.

It’s not that simple. You punish another organization by removing him. I’m not certain what tools or authorities Bettman has here. I won’t be surprised if there is something closer to a scolding and maybe some kind of fine or suspension, that doesn’t disrupt Florida’s season as much. They’re not the organization that should be punished.

I’m not saying Q is not deserving of something, but the situation does change when he’s not with the Blackhawk’s any more.

 

[PocketNines]

There's probably a "detrimental to the NHL" clause. There are so many abuse scandals going on in organizations where adults hurt children and younger adults who they are morally and professionally grooming (Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, USA Gymnastics, etc, etc) and people with power to act do nothing and the consequences are devastating and have permanent ripple effects through society. It's clearly a thing that goes on in professional hockey too.

The NHL just letting Quenneville continue to coach if it has any power to remove him feels like the NHL setting themselves up for a storm of negative attention in a year where they have a new franchise and a new television contract and everyone back to rinks. If Quenneville doesn't resign (which is the way the NHL would much prefer it) then it becomes the story of the season. What happens when reporters continue to ask and players continue to discuss what was known in the Chicago locker room? This is not going away if he tries to ride it out.

 

[NZ Hockey]

It’s not that simple. You punish another organization by removing him. I’m not certain what tools or authorities Bettman has here. I won’t be surprised if there is something closer to a scolding and maybe some kind of fine or suspension, that doesn’t disrupt Florida’s season as much. They’re not the organization that should be punished.

I’m not saying Q is not deserving of something, but the situation does change when he’s not with the Blackhawk’s any more.

Well I certainly think you have a very valid point about punishment to Florida. But I still think discipline for Q has to take the priority over anything hockey related. Otherwise we're prioritizing hockey wins over moral obligation - again.

And maybe we shouldn't look at it as a punishment for Florida if he's gone? He's grade-A scum and his continued presence will draw nothing but bad attention during Florida's season if he stays. Perhaps it'd be a good thing to be rid of this mess now, while the season is still young. October is a great month to get this taken care of.

I could easily see this turning into a PR nightmare and a big distraction in Florida if he sticks around. And then eventually they wind up caving to pressure and letting him go? That's never a good look. And that could be an even bigger headache for Florida legally and from a marketing standpoint if their initial reaction is to just deliver a slap on the wrist but they're forced down the road to change their mind due to pressure in the media.

 

[LUF]

It’s not that simple. You punish another organization by removing him. I’m not certain what tools or authorities Bettman has here. I won’t be surprised if there is something closer to a scolding and maybe some kind of fine or suspension, that doesn’t disrupt Florida’s season as much. They’re not the organization that should be punished.

I’m not saying Q is not deserving of something, but the situation does change when he’s not with the Blackhawk’s any more.

No, by sweeping this under the rug back then, Q is the one who's punishing the Panthers right now. There'll be many out there to think that if that's how he's dealt with problems in the past, why would you think it's any different nowadays? So even if he stays with the club, everything he does will be under extreme scrutiny and that attention will splash on the Panthers, creating a huge distraction.

 

[PocketNines]

Quenneville makes a million dollars every ten weeks

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Anyone defending the Hawks people are enablers and abusers.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

It’s not that simple. You punish another organization by removing him. I’m not certain what tools or authorities Bettman has here. I won’t be surprised if there is something closer to a scolding and maybe some kind of fine or suspension, that doesn’t disrupt Florida’s season as much. They’re not the organization that should be punished.

I’m not saying Q is not deserving of something, but the situation does change when he’s not with the Blackhawk’s any more.

While I understand where you’re coming from, I just can’t agree with that. This is so much bigger than not punishing the Panthers. Q should never coach again, full stop. He helped enable a sexual abuser by turning a blind eye just to try to win. He can’t be allowed to coach.

 

[Xerloris]

Anyone defending the Hawks people are enablers and abusers.

While I understand where you’re coming from, I just can’t agree with that. This is so much bigger than not punishing the Panthers. Q should never coach again, full stop. He helped enable a sexual abuser by turning a blind eye just to try to win. He can’t be allowed to coach.

Serious question because maybe I missed the answer somewhere. Was there any proof of sexual abuse or was it only an accusation?

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Serious question because maybe I missed the answer somewhere. Was there any proof of sexual abuse or was it only an accusation?

There’s proof now in the sense that Aldrich was arrested for sexual assault of a 16 year old three years after this incident was alleged to have happened. But even that, that’s missing the point. Because management and the coaches did absolutely nothing to even address the allegation.

 

[Xerloris]

There’s proof now in the sense that Aldrich was arrested for sexual assault of a 16 year old three years after this incident was alleged to have happened. But even that, that’s missing the point. Because management and the coaches did absolutely nothing to even address the allegation.

looking back I totally agree that something should have been done but how are they suppose to do something when they didn't even know if it was true or not?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Serious question because maybe I missed the answer somewhere. Was there any proof of sexual abuse or was it only an accusation?

That's not a serious question.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

There’s proof now in the sense that Aldrich was arrested for sexual assault of a 16 year old three years after this incident was alleged to have happened. But even that, that’s missing the point. Because management and the coaches did absolutely nothing to even address the allegation.

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in entertaining such questions.

 

[Brian39]

looking back I totally agree that something should have been done but how are they suppose to do something when they didn't even know if it was true or not?

Most investigations begin without knowing whether something is true or not. That's what the investigation is for. The entire failure here is that a player made an allegation and the entire leadership group within the organization did everything they could to ignore it.

Kyle Beach came forward and made an allegation of sexual abuse by a superior to the skating coach and the mental conditioning coach. Those concerns were passed along to the front office and the head of the coaching staff. From that point, no one in the front office or coaching staff asked Kyle Beach about it. No one in the coaching staff or front office asked Aldrich about it. No one in the coaching staff or front office passed along any information to HR for weeks (and never passed along full information). No one in the coaching staff or front office asked any other player about it. No one in the front office or the coaching staff passed along information to law enforcement. No one in the front office or coaching staff followed the organization's sexual harassment procedures.

No shit we can't say for certain what exactly happened. Everyone involved closed their eyes and put their fingers in their ears.

Graphic language/imagery warning. The next paragraph is going to provide some of the details in the report. I'm not going to delve into the extreme details, but I am going to discuss sexual conduct.

To answer your original question, like the vast majority of cold sex assaults, there isn't going to be a smoking gun proving that assault took place. What we do have is a player who describes the interaction as a clearly unwanted sexual encounter during which his video coach grabbed a small bat and threatened to ruin his career if he didn't act like he liked it. The video coach describes a consensual sexual encounter between himself and a player that he thought was gay. There is no video and corroborating witnesses present for another evening or earlier portions of the evening provide details that support details from both stories.

A 22 year old male intern working for the Blackhawks at the time also describes an incident a few weeks later where the video coach groped his penis in a taxi while inviting him upstairs after a night of drinking. He indicated that this was unwanted contact that occurred after he repeatedly declined the video coach's invitations to come upstairs. There was no romantic behavior between the 2 before the drope.

The video coach has been convicted of sexually assaulting a 16 year old boy.

There is no conclusive proof that it was an assault and not consensual, but there is a hell of a lot of context that suggests it was an assault. Go watch Kyle Beach's interview with Rick Westhead and tell me he consented. Go read the report I linked earlier in the thread if you're serious about your question. It clocks in at under 70 pages when you ignore photos and footnotes that you don't need to read.

And who knows how much more info we'd have if a f***ing investigation had been conducted.

 

[Celtic Note]

It’s not that simple. You punish another organization by removing him. I’m not certain what tools or authorities Bettman has here. I won’t be surprised if there is something closer to a scolding and maybe some kind of fine or suspension, that doesn’t disrupt Florida’s season as much. They’re not the organization that should be punished.

I’m not saying Q is not deserving of something, but the situation does change when he’s not with the Blackhawk’s any more.

Give the panthers a Chicago pick as punishment and let them figure out the rest.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

It’s not that simple. You punish another organization by removing him. I’m not certain what tools or authorities Bettman has here. I won’t be surprised if there is something closer to a scolding and maybe some kind of fine or suspension, that doesn’t disrupt Florida’s season as much. They’re not the organization that should be punished.

I’m not saying Q is not deserving of something, but the situation does change when he’s not with the Blackhawk’s any more.

Too bad. It's not about the Panthers. And if they knew something about the proceedings in Chicago (no surprise there cuz---Dave Tallon), then the Panthers should be punished. mos def

 

[Xerloris]

Most investigations begin without knowing whether something is true or not. That's what the investigation is for. The entire failure here is that a player made an allegation and the entire leadership group within the organization did everything they could to ignore it.

Kyle Beach came forward and made an allegation of sexual abuse by a superior to the skating coach and the mental conditioning coach. Those concerns were passed along to the front office and the head of the coaching staff. From that point, no one in the front office or coaching staff asked Kyle Beach about it. No one in the coaching staff or front office asked Aldrich about it. No one in the coaching staff or front office passed along any information to HR for weeks (and never passed along full information). No one in the coaching staff or front office asked any other player about it. No one in the front office or the coaching staff passed along information to law enforcement. No one in the front office or coaching staff followed the organization's sexual harassment procedures.

No shit we can't say for certain what exactly happened. Everyone involved closed their eyes and put their fingers in their ears.

Graphic language/imagery warning. The next paragraph is going to provide some of the details in the report. I'm not going to delve into the extreme details, but I am going to discuss sexual conduct.

To answer your original question, like the vast majority of cold sex assaults, there isn't going to be a smoking gun proving that assault took place. What we do have is a player who describes the interaction as a clearly unwanted sexual encounter during which his video coach grabbed a small bat and threatened to ruin his career if he didn't act like he liked it. The video coach describes a consensual sexual encounter between himself and a player that he thought was gay. There is no video and corroborating witnesses present for another evening or earlier portions of the evening provide details that support details from both stories.

A 22 year old male intern working for the Blackhawks at the time also describes an incident a few weeks later where the video coach groped his penis in a taxi while inviting him upstairs after a night of drinking. He indicated that this was unwanted contact that occurred after he repeatedly declined the video coach's invitations to come upstairs. There was no romantic behavior between the 2 before the drope.

The video coach has been convicted of sexually assaulting a 16 year old boy.

There is no conclusive proof that it was an assault and not consensual, but there is a hell of a lot of context that suggests it was an assault. Go watch Kyle Beach's interview with Rick Westhead and tell me he consented. Go read the report I linked earlier in the thread if you're serious about your question. It clocks in at under 70 pages when you ignore photos and footnotes that you don't need to read.

And who knows how much more info we'd have if a f***ing investigation had been conducted.

Thanks for the write up. It answers several of the questions I had about the situation.