Around the NHL 2024-2025

[ChicagoBlues]

I haven't been following. What's the word on the street about this?

I knew I should've included the details.

It goes something like this:

RyJo played with a "severe hockey injury" for almost the entire time he was with the Avs in 23-24.

He was traded to the Flyers at the TDL.

He disclosed an injury to Philly, was sent to team docs who found a hip injury.

RyJo got married on August 17th and a video turned up of him dancing and lifting his wife into the air.

Philly filed a material breach of contract against RyJo with Bettman maybe giving the nod/wink to move forward.

BUT is the video the basis for the BOC filing and if it is the basis, is it compelling enough to terminate the contract?

 

[joe galiba]

I knew I should've included the details.

It goes something like this:

RyJo played with a "severe hockey injury" for almost the entire time he was with the Avs in 23-24.

He was traded to the Flyers at the TDL.

He disclosed an injury to Philly, was sent to team docs who found a hip injury.

RyJo got married on August 17th and a video turned up of him dancing and lifting his wife into the air.

Philly filed a material breach of contract against RyJo with Bettman maybe giving the nod/wink to move forward.

BUT is the video the basis for the BOC filing and if it is the basis, is it compelling enough to terminate the contract?

seriously?
unless they have a bunch of other video, their lawyer who approved this should find a new profession

 

[Itsnotatrap]

When GMs are trading 'distressed goods' I'm almost always surprised that the returns are usually close to market value. I'm not completely clear on the reason for this, but I think GMs have a code of conduct not to devalue players in that type of situation. Of maybe we just exaggerate how those issues affect trade value.

I get the trade demand reducing some leverage and any ability to time things optimally, but it also signals to all other that it’s probably time to get serious and bring best offers, or close to it.

And Askarov does seem a little goofy and difficult to manage, but that’s also a common stereotype of goalies, and he’s one of the more talented young ones. So not too surprised his value didn’t get too decimated ultimately when Nashville said it’s go time.

So, who’s to say being a good soldier and quietly stewing might have ultimately hurt his career, and ultimately the Preds scheme to boost his value that the org shared with The Tennesean?

They got a good offer, took it, and seems time to move on now, but they still have stuff to say about it for some reason.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

seriously?
unless they have a bunch of other video, their lawyer who approved this should find a new profession

Yes, these are speculated details. None of it makes sense. RyJo playing all season with a bum hip and then being traded with an injury, then disclosing the injury and now this bogus BOC filing.

If it is based on the wedding video, then this just stinks all the way around. The NHL apparently gave Philly the green light to move forward, but I wonder what the play is here.

Is the NHL trying to help Philadelphia, hurt Philadelphia or compromise the NHLPA? There's always politics.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I knew I should've included the details.

It goes something like this:

RyJo played with a "severe hockey injury" for almost the entire time he was with the Avs in 23-24.

He was traded to the Flyers at the TDL.

He disclosed an injury to Philly, was sent to team docs who found a hip injury.

RyJo got married on August 17th and a video turned up of him dancing and lifting his wife into the air.

Philly filed a material breach of contract against RyJo with Bettman maybe giving the nod/wink to move forward.

BUT is the video the basis for the BOC filing and if it is the basis, is it compelling enough to terminate the contract?

Hockey players play through injuries all the time. I could 100% see RyJo playing injured throughout the season and then having plans in place with The Avs where he would get surgeries done in the off season.
I can also see where he would just say "Well f*** that" right after he get's traded to a team who IMMEDIATELY puts him on waivers to be sent down to the AHL.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Hockey players play through injuries all the time. I could 100% see RyJo playing injured throughout the season and then having plans in place with The Avs where he would get surgeries done in the off season.
I can also see where he would just say "Well f*** that" right after he get's traded to a team who IMMEDIATELY puts him on waivers to be sent down to the AHL.

Right, and you can't send down an injured player. So RyJo played his card.

 

[Xerloris]

How the f*** you gonna trade a player without disclosing an injury beforehand?

 

[Brian39]

I find it odd Nashville seems to keep leaking little details out on Askarov, and Trotz went so far to say it impacted the return. Seems they did alright on the deal. Depending on your perspective, you can see Trotz as being a simple straight shooter with this communications strategy, or a little thin-skinned.

As a Blues fan in the Nashville area, I have strong bias to the latter, but have to admit their org is in a good spot. Having both a good roster, even if aging, along with a nice pool of picks and prospects is a luxury. You can squint into the future and see a vision where it gives them a soft landing, or even a long runway.

If I am them, I stop talking about the deal anymore. It kinda just made sense on the surface with the commitment to Saros, and goalies are unpredictable as hell whether established or not. So, you picked your lane, the kid didn’t like that and you moved him. Seemed to get proper return. No matter what you have your minions report, it will land fine if Saros is good and will land poorly if he isn’t, and the kid develops into his potential.

I absolutely hate the 'blast the guy on his way out of town' tactic some GMs use. It's clear pandering to their fanbase and I almost never believe that we are getting even 25% of the truth when GMs speak publicly like this. You got a good return and your fanbase is already content with the state of the organization. Shut up and take the win without alienating an agent and any player around the league who is friends with the guy you moved.

One of the things I really respect about Army is that he pretty consistently declines to kick guys on their way out the door.

When GMs are trading 'distressed goods' I'm almost always surprised that the returns are usually close to market value. I'm not completely clear on the reason for this, but I think GMs have a code of conduct not to devalue players in that type of situation. Of maybe we just exaggerate how those issues affect trade value.

At the end of the day, talent trumps damn near everything in pro sports. I don't think it is a code of conduct, but is just the reality that even when the selling team is in a tough spot you are still competing with 30 other organizations. Askarov is still a prospect, but he's inarguably a top 5 goalie prospect in the world. Some argue that he's the best goalie prospect. You can lowball a GM when they have a need to move a truly low or negative value asset. But when they have an elite (or potentially elite) talent, the value is still largely dictated by the fact that there are multiple teams in a bidding war.

 

[Brian39]

I knew I should've included the details.

It goes something like this:

RyJo played with a "severe hockey injury" for almost the entire time he was with the Avs in 23-24.

He was traded to the Flyers at the TDL.

He disclosed an injury to Philly, was sent to team docs who found a hip injury.

RyJo got married on August 17th and a video turned up of him dancing and lifting his wife into the air.

Philly filed a material breach of contract against RyJo with Bettman maybe giving the nod/wink to move forward.

BUT is the video the basis for the BOC filing and if it is the basis, is it compelling enough to terminate the contract?

I think this is a pretty good summary, but it does leave out a pretty critical detail and is biased toward the player.

Philly wasn't informed of the hip injury until after they tried to assign him to the AHL. There is smoke to the notion that the injury might not be as severe as RyJo's agent claims and was an excuse to avoid riding the bus in the AHL. Philly hasn't confirmed any details about injury severity and RyJo's agent is the only person on record describing it as 'severe.' It is unknown what type of treatment was recommended by team doctors, but it has not been reported that RyJo has undergone any type of medical procedure for his hip.

I don't want to make assumptions one way or another. I would wager there is a ton of important context and medical info cited in the filing for material breach. I'm not at all wild about the precedent of teams using wedding videos to say a guy is actually healthy.

But I do think it is important to note the context that the injury was reported in response to the Flyers trying to send him to the AHL. There claim is almost certainly going to be based on the notion that he isn't making reasonable efforts to get healthy again and/or exaggerated his injury.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Thanks for fleshing it out with more details, @Brian39.

Right about Philly knowing about the injury when they did. That’s why RyJo played the card, me thinks.

Played injured, was traded, assigned to AHL, RyJo plays card.

And, yes, there’s a lot more to this that we will probably never know.

Also, agreed on the Askarov thing. Pandering to a weak-minded fan base.

The “worst” I’ve ever heard Army say was regarding the Hayes trade. I forgot what exactly he said about Hayes, but it wasn’t terrible. Just a tad stingy.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

One of the things I really respect about Army is that he pretty consistently declines to kick guys on their way out the door.

Agree there. Just one idiots opinion on this that is based on little, but I get the strong sense there is a story available to tell with Kevin Hayes, but there wasn’t one told. He took the L and moved on.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Teams with "extra" draft capital that are not in the Central:

Montreal:
2025 - 9 picks in 1st 4 rounds
2 1sts, 2 2nds, 3 3rds, 2 4ths
2026 - 6 picks in 1st 4 rounds
1 1st, 2 2nds, 1 3rd, 2 4ths

Philadelphia:
2025 - 8 picks in 1st 4 rounds
3 1sts, 3 2nds, 1 3rd, 1 4th

Calgary:
2025 - 5 picks in 1st 3 rounds
2 1sts, 2 2nds, 1 3rd
2026 - 5 picks in 1st 3 rounds
2 1sts, 1 2nd, 2 3rds

Chicago, Nashville and Utah have soaked up a shit ton of picks.

I'm not sure why I just did this, but think it might be useful. Sucks that these three teams blow and would be unattractive for someone like Saad. For a tdl move of Saad, it will probably come down to a competitive team willing to give up their single 2nd round pick. The flat cap era really put a crimp on the flow of business. Other factors as well, of course, but we have a slinky effect with the draft capital hoarders.

I don't remember a time when so much draft capital was concentrated in so few franchises.

 

[Reality Czech]

Thanks for fleshing it out with more details, @Brian39.

Right about Philly knowing about the injury when they did. That’s why RyJo played the card, me thinks.

Played injured, was traded, assigned to AHL, RyJo plays card.

And, yes, there’s a lot more to this that we will probably never know.

Also, agreed on the Askarov thing. Pandering to a weak-minded fan base.

The “worst” I’ve ever heard Army say was regarding the Hayes trade. I forgot what exactly he said about Hayes, but it wasn’t terrible. Just a tad stingy.

Feel like it was something along the lines of it not being a good fit with Hayes. I think he also admitted his mistake in acquiring him in the first place.

Regarding RyJo, it was a weird trade to begin with. Why would they have wanted Johansen back for Walker instead of draft picks or prospects? Puzzling. RyJo has the type of contract teams have to attach assets to if they wanna get rid of it and I didn't get why a rebuilding team like Philly would even want him.

Last side note, watching this Swayman ordeal play out makes me happy that we locked down Binner when we did. Not the exact same situation I know, but goalie is the last position a team wants to be up against the wall with contract negotiations. Now Boston basically has to give him the big long-term deal and hope he will live up to it. Sway's camp seems to have almost all of the leverage here. Sounds like there is bitterness from last summer's arbitration hearing which as well, which can no doubt happen when a team has to basically argue a guy is worth less than he thinks.

 

[Punished ROR]

How the f*** you gonna trade a player without disclosing an injury beforehand?

The Docalanche knew they would get away with it

 

[Brian39]

Regarding RyJo, it was a weird trade to begin with. Why would they have wanted Johansen back for Walker instead of draft picks or prospects? Puzzling. RyJo has the type of contract teams have to attach assets to if they wanna get rid of it and I didn't get why a rebuilding team like Philly would even want him.

RyJo was not the target of the trade. Philly received a 1st round pick in the deal. Accepting RyJo's contract back was the cap dump required to make the trade work for Colorado. They reportedly tried to flip RyJo to another team with retention and didn't find any takers.

Philly isn't trying to get out of this deal because they are upset that he's not coming in to play on their NHL roster. They have no interest in using him on their NHL team and are trying to seize an opportunity to avoid paying him and eating his cap hit for the remaining year on his deal.

There is a good chance (and his agent will certainly argue) that Philly sent him to the AHL in the hopes that he would agree to a mutual contract termination to seek an NHL opportunity elsewhere.

 

[Reality Czech]

RyJo was not the target of the trade. Philly received a 1st round pick in the deal. Accepting RyJo's contract back was the cap dump required to make the trade work for Colorado. They reportedly tried to flip RyJo to another team with retention and didn't find any takers.

Philly isn't trying to get out of this deal because they are upset that he's not coming in to play on their NHL roster. They have no interest in using him on their NHL team and are trying to seize an opportunity to avoid paying him and eating his cap hit for the remaining year on his deal.

There is a good chance (and his agent will certainly argue) that Philly sent him to the AHL in the hopes that he would agree to a mutual contract termination to seek an NHL opportunity elsewhere.

I missed the first rounder when I was reading about it earlier, so that makes a lot more sense.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

popcorn

 

[Brian39]

Last side note, watching this Swayman ordeal play out makes me happy that we locked down Binner when we did. Not the exact same situation I know, but goalie is the last position a team wants to be up against the wall with contract negotiations. Now Boston basically has to give him the big long-term deal and hope he will live up to it. Sway's camp seems to have almost all of the leverage here. Sounds like there is bitterness from last summer's arbitration hearing which as well, which can no doubt happen when a team has to basically argue a guy is worth less than he thinks.

Swayman is saying all the right things to maximize his leverage. As a goalie and a fan of the negotiation side of the sport, I'm very interested to see is he can successfully re-set the goalie market. He has a ton of talent and it will be hard for Boston to come into camp without him.

With that said, I think Boston has more leverage than people are giving them credit for. Bob Essensa has a pretty damn long track record of success with Boston's goalies. It wouldn't shock me if Korpisalo gets off to a nice start to the season if Swayman decides to sit out through October.

Boston has about $8.6M in space. More if they are willing to run a 22 man roster. I don't see a team giving him an offer sheet that Boston can't match. I also think that the Bruins are capable of swaying local public opinion to their side if they leak out that they are offering him $60M and he is the one turning that down. The relationship might get destroyed, but he's 2 more years from UFA status and I'm not quite sold that his "I won't play this year' leverage is quite as high as Boston's ability to let him sit.

I'm really, really interested in this negotiation.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Boston is the other one that's got goalie chops. Both the Bruins and Preds have yellow in their uniforms? Is it the yellow? We have some yellow. Are we chopping?

 

[SirPaste]

Wouldn't the Avs be held liable if they knowingly traded him while injured and didn't disclose it? Obviously would be hard to prove but you would think so.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Wouldn't the Avs be held liable if they knowingly traded him while injured and didn't disclose it? Obviously would be hard to prove but you would think so.

But if RyJo never mentioned he was hurting, how could they be held liable?

My understanding is RyJo didn’t mention this injury to anyone until he got to Philly and they wanted to put him on waivers.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

But if RyJo never mentioned he was hurting, how could they be held liable?

My understanding is RyJo didn’t mention this injury to anyone until he got to Philly and they wanted to put him on waivers.

Right.

Briere: Welcome to Philadelphia! We are assigning you to Lehigh Valley.
RyJo: Like hell you are! I'm injured.

This is a juicy story. The wedding video thing simply adds fuel, but the BOC filing is probably based on the timing of injury disclosure. IMO, RyJo knew what was going to happen and acted in bad faith. But also, Briere and his team needed to be more careful. Sometimes so-called due diligence is adequate, but often times over-diligence is most prudent.

These FOs must engage in game theory and play out scenarios. But this is just me/us guessing. What are Colorado's obligations? What are Kurt Overhardt's (agent) obligations? What are RyJo's obligations? With the nod/wink from the League, my guess is that the onus lies on the NHLPA and perhaps from some grey area in their language and precedent.

Putting on my platinum-foil hat, I think the League is trying to hurt the NHLPA in order to gain an advantage in the next CBA negotiation. Remember, there is always politics!!

The NHL is the wolf. The NHLPA is the reactive goat with little unison.

 

[SirPaste]

But if RyJo never mentioned he was hurting, how could they be held liable?

My understanding is RyJo didn’t mention this injury to anyone until he got to Philly and they wanted to put him on waivers.

Ok I guess that makes more sense, I was under the impression the Avs knew he was playing injured.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Feel like it was something along the lines of it not being a good fit with Hayes. I think he also admitted his mistake in acquiring him in the first place.

Yes, this sounds about right. Not even a jab, really, but about the worst I've ever heard him say.

Not like Lindy Ruff who ripped his Devils players by name during post-game pressers.

 

[BlueDream]

Unfortunately it appears that we are all going to wake up tomorrow with confirmation that a tragedy just happened in the hockey world. This isn’t looking good.