Around the NHL - 2023 offseason edition

[Brodeur]

Bah, time to revise my mock draft again. Newhook always serves a cautionary tale for the folks who judge prospects by counting stats. While at Boston College, Newhook (58 points in 46 games) produced at a higher rate than Matt Boldy (57 points in 56 games). Although to their credit, I don't remember it being Colorado fans hyping up Newhook. Oddly I think it was more weird Montreal fans who were mad that Boldy had been taken before Cole Caufield.

 

[Oneiro]

They probably look at Newhook and think he’s another Dach.

Interesting approach. Not sure I’d pay that price this early in a rebuild and in this draft.

 

[Forge]

Oof on having to retain so much.

This is such a weird trade to me. I mean, the retention spot alone for that type of cash would get you what...a 4th or 5th each year for facilitating a trade ? And Hayes is still an okay middle 6 C. Defensively he's not good, but he'll still give you 50 points. So weird. I mean they paid more for just his rights than they got back retaining half his salary.

Seth Rorabaugh (a Pittsburgh writer) is who put McDavid 5th

also,

I was such a Kupari fan his draft year.

Honestly, this is a good deal for Winnipeg all things considered. Vilardi comes with some risk, but all of them are controlled multiple years and Vilardi comes with upside that is commiserate with what they are giving up for PLD.

I mean, I'm not the biggest PLD fan so that plays a role, but still

 

[Better Call Sal]

I like that return for Winnipeg. Vilardi really started to put it together last year.

 

[bossram]

newhook might do well if he's surrounded by better talent, maybe they think he could grow?

Maybe. But I think MacFarland got way more value than he should have. Crucially, liquid assets and some extra flexibility from not QOing Newhook. I actually was thinking before this deal happened that they would try to move him.

I don't think Newhook will be a real offensive contributor. He got by producing in college and the BCHL with a big speed advantage, but that's no longer a separator in the NHL. He doesn't have particularly good puck skill, playmaking, or shooting. He's going to have to redefine his game as a defensive piece.

 

[Bleedred]

Newhook isn't any good.

Doesn't mean he'll never be good, but he was a beyond overhyped prospect for Colorado. He wasn't the most overhyped, but he was just too overhyped for what he's wound up showing so far, which is a 3rd liner. He was supposed to have a big role last year and replace some of the guys that walked that they couldn't afford to keep, but he wasn't any better than the year before. He may have even been worse.

I remember reading some dumb shit like ''If Colorado is really gonna trade Newhook at the deadline this year, then they REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY WIN THE CUP!'' when he was being talked about as someone going back for Giroux, who wound up getting shipped to Florida instead.

I've seen nothing worth noticing about this player since he's been in the NHL.

 

[MasterofGrond]

I like Newhook, I think there's potential for him in Montreal

but the point of a buy-low is that you're supposed to buy low.

 

[Bleedred]

.

He's the type of player that I could have seen struggling to find work on the UFA market, particularly from a competitive team, due to his age and decline.

But he's got a certain type of fascination that he brings because of ''Dat leadership'' because he was the captain of Columbus for quite a long time, and ''Work ethic'' and there's also his last name, because his dad played for a long time.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

.

He's the type of player that I could have seen struggling to find work on the UFA market, particularly from a competitive team, due to his age and decline.

But he's got a certain type of fascination that he brings because of ''Dat leadership'' because he was the captain of Columbus for quite a long time, and ''Work ethic'' and there's also his last name, because his dad played for a long time.

He would’ve found work pretty easily. Just wouldn’t have been for anywhere close to this much. Probably like half as much give it take. Can’t imagine over 3. Seems like Chicago just decided he’s a guy they’d like to have around and they might as well give him extra given they’re gonna have far more cap space than they need.

 

[My3Sons]

.

He's the type of player that I could have seen struggling to find work on the UFA market, particularly from a competitive team, due to his age and decline.

But he's got a certain type of fascination that he brings because of ''Dat leadership'' because he was the captain of Columbus for quite a long time, and ''Work ethic'' and there's also his last name, because his dad played for a long time.

Sure, at $2 mil for a year with no acquisition cost he makes sense on a good team. There is no reason to give up a younger player or pick for him or pay him more than about $2 mil for one year though.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I have Mogilny in my Hall of Very Good for a couple of reasons.

1.) He was very rarely the best player on his own team.
2.) Little hardware - 1 Cup (which is a team award), and he shares an honorary Richard with Selanne in 93 (Rocket didn't exist until '99), two 2nd Team All-Stars.
3.) Never dominated the league relative to his peers - finished top-10 in points TWICE in 16 seasons - 7th place in '93, 9th place in '97.
4.) Generally very weak playoff performances - he only made it out of the 1st round 4 times in his career (2 with NJ), and in those 4 runs he had 19 goals/40 points in 81 games.

Alexander Mogilny's points finish on his own team:

89-90: 7th
90-91: 4th
91-92: 4th
92-93: 2nd
93-94: 2nd
94-95: 1st
*Traded to VAN*
95-96: 1st
96-97: 1st
97-98: 3rd
98-99: 3rd
99-00: 5th* (traded to NJ mid-season)
00-01: 2nd
*Signs in TOR*
01-02: 3rd
02-03: 1st
03-04: 10th (37 GP)
05-06: 10th (24 GP)

The only time in Buffalo he finished 1st on his team was in the '95 lockout season when Pat LaFontaine and Dale Hawerchuk both missed half the year. Even in his infamous 76 goal season, he still finished 21 points (!) behind Pat Lafontaine.

The two season he finished 1st on the Canucks were the two seasons that Pavel Bure was dealing with a significant injuries. Bure tore his ACL in 1996, only playing 16 games, and then dealt with a neck injury in 1997 that had him in and out of the lineup. In both '98 and '99 Mogilny was outscored by Vancouver Messier (cringe).

Then he came to NJ, and I think all of us who were old enough to remember those teams will tell you that Elias was clearly the better forward (Mogilny had a pathetic 4 goals and 3 assists in 23 playoff games en route to his only Cup in 2000, only one point more than Colin White had). We also all remember the famous incident in Game 6 against Colorado in 2001, where Mogilny hit the post on one end and slowly sulked back to the bench which resulted in an odd-man rush against and a very important Colorado goal.

In Toronto he finished 1st in points on the team once, but again, those Leafs teams were not particularly great despite the ECF run in 2002. And anyone with a brain will tell you that Sundin was pretty universally the better and more important player.

In the three seasons he played in Toronto, Mogilny had 65 goals in 176 games. That is IDENTICAL to Jesper Bratt's statline over the past three seasons. Exact same goals, exact same games played (though Bratt has 10 more assists than Mogilny does in the same time span - Bratt for HHoF )

-----

IMO the only time Mogilny was clearly the best player on his own team was in 1996 in Vancouver, he outscored Trevor Linden by 27 points. But that was a pretty bad team who won 32 games total, but ended up making the playoffs by virtue of 15 ties and getting killed in the first round (they also fired their coach mid-season that year).

He peaked in his 4th season, then he spent most of the next 13 years as a big fish in a small pond. The only time he got to play for a big boy team was in NJ, and he was relegated to playing with a rookie on the 2nd line.

I think part of the reason is that if you look at those fan bases - early 90's Sabres, late 90's Nucks, early 00's Leafs - people who were fans of those teams at the time didn't have a whole lot of great going on for them aside from the cool Russian sniper who feasted on the PP. Ironically us Devils fans who actually got to see Mogilny win a Cup are championing a different and clearly superior player as the most egregious snub.

IMO he's far closer to guys like Petr Bondra, Rick Nash, and Kevin Stevens than he is to Pavel Bure, Teemu Selanne, and Brendan Shanahan. And IMO he's pretty clearly below some "borderline" guys like Elias and Brind'Amour (who was a much more important piece on every team he played for, regardless of raw production).

I get why people are so fired up about him, goals are very cool. Especially when Turgeon, who is just Mogilny with fewer goals and more assists, got in before him. But just because he's better than several players already in the Hall does not justify further bad inductees.

Agree with almost all of this, especially the Bondra etc comparisons.

I (sadly) put Elias in the Hall of very good too. But it's super close. He was better all around than Mogilny, less flashy a player without the pure sniper ability, but had much more of what makes a player a winner.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Guy went from MVP season to injured the next season, to traded the season after. Then goes to a god awful Buffalo team, gets traded to Boston, has a pretty good season the following season, is on the best regular season team in history the season after that..and is then traded to a god awful Chicago team like 2 months later. And all this after being stuck with the Oilers for 6 years right before they actually became good again. What a career lol

You missed a God awful Arizona squad too.

He punched his ticket with that ear cupping for me.. hope his suck ass luck continues. He could've gracefully handled things here, got paid, and have been a fan favorite and looking forward to next year with a legit shot.

But hey, we did they trade right sooooooo

Big brain Boston chose Pavel Zacha over Taylor Hall

And it's totally the right move, ironically.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I can't find the words to describe Flyers' management. On the job less than a month. haven't even done anything yet. Everything they are thinking is public domain.
This is after the worst GM of all time just got removed after years of suck.

On the bright side, we no longer have to hear all those infuriating fans that want to replace Tom Fitzgerald with Chico Resch.

You know. It's almost like they realize they have a character problem. They are sort of dumping players that have less than stellar reps at a discount.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

PLD signs for 8.5x8. More than fair comp for Timo even though PLD is a center.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

that PLD contract is hilarious.

 

[Bleedred]

You missed a God awful Arizona squad too.

He punched his ticket with that ear cupping for me.. hope his suck ass luck continues. He could've gracefully handled things here, got paid, and have been a fan favorite and looking forward to next year with a legit shot.

But hey, we did they trade right sooooooo


And it's totally the right move, ironically.

I'm glad he didn't sign here. I think we'd all HATE him right now if he were signed here. Maybe if we were lucky we would have been the one's that sent him to Chicago yesterday, while also retaining $4 million dollars for the next FIVE years. I'm assuming a $10 million cap hit (maybe even $11 million, I'm being conservative though) for 8 years (starting in 2020-2021) if we were to have re-signed him.

I know the covid shutdown and flat cap cost him some money, but if he were to have re-signed here, it would have been prior to the 2020 trade deadline and the shutdown didn't happen until about roughly 3 or 4 weeks after the trade deadline that year.

So yeah, we would have have had to have paid him probably $80 million for 8 years. He signed his next contract after the covid flat cap and got I think it was $8.5 million on a one year deal from Buffalo? I remember reading Boston tried to sign him that same offseason, to pretty much the same deal they gave him a year later, but it may have had one more year onto it, for that year he wound up playing in Buffalo and was traded to Boston. So he came out with about $6 million per for 4 years (I was under the impression it was 5 years until yesterday) after that.

I think we all know he overachieved that year, which is why he's not a perennial Hart trophy candidate and never has been. He was just a pretty good player that had a really great year. Like Corey Perry in 2010-2011 or even Jose Theodore (different position) in 01-02. Although, I don't even think Theodore was a really good player. He had a pretty meh career, unlike those two, who had very good careers but not HOF caliber like a majority of the MVP winners.

I can only imagine how jaded and frustrated this fanbase would have been having Subban and Hall at a combined $19 or $20 million cap hit during the 20-21 and 21-22 seasons. That may have been enough to make several @RangerDoggo from the fanbase lol. At that point I think we'd consider the rebuild and Hall era an entire failure.

So that's why I'm glad he didn't re-sign. I don't even hate him or dislike him, but sometimes it's funny to think about how he always ends up in some dump organization. And sometimes it's really sad.

 

[Devils731]

This is neat even if I don’t have time to sit and watch all of this. College me would have been all over this.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

that PLD contract is hilarious.

Why? Centers get paid and he's only 25. Like Suzuki, Hintz, Josh Norris all got about 8m the last few years on a long term deal.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I'm glad he didn't sign here. I think we'd all HATE him right now if he were signed here. Maybe if we were lucky we would have been the one's that sent him to Chicago yesterday, while also retaining $4 million dollars for the next FIVE years. I'm assuming a $10 million cap hit (maybe even $11 million, I'm being conservative though) for 8 years (starting in 2020-2021) if we were to have re-signed him.

I know the covid shutdown and flat cap cost him some money, but if he were to have re-signed here, it would have been prior to the 2020 trade deadline and the shutdown didn't happen until about roughly 3 or 4 weeks after the trade deadline that year.

So yeah, we would have have had to have paid him probably $80 million for 8 years. He signed his next contract after the covid flat cap and got I think it was $8.5 million on a one year deal from Buffalo? I remember reading Boston tried to sign him that same offseason, to pretty much the same deal they gave him a year later, but it may have had one more year onto it, for that year he wound up playing in Buffalo and was traded to Boston. So he came out with about $6 million per for 4 years (I was under the impression it was 5 years until yesterday) after that.

I think we all know he overachieved that year, which is why he's not a perennial Hart trophy candidate and never has been. He was just a pretty good player that had a really great year. Like Corey Perry in 2010-2011 or even Jose Theodore (different position) in 01-02. Although, I don't even think Theodore was a really good player. He had a pretty meh career, unlike those two, who had very good careers but not HOF caliber like a majority of the MVP winners.

I can only imagine how jaded and frustrated this fanbase would have been having Subban and Hall at a combined $19 or $20 million cap hit during the 20-21 and 21-22 seasons. That may have been enough to make several @RangerDoggo from the fanbase lol. At that point I think we'd consider the rebuild and Hall era an entire failure.

So that's why I'm glad he didn't re-sign. I don't even hate him or dislike him, but sometimes it's funny to think about how he always ends up in some dump organization. And sometimes it's really sad.

Yes. Yes and more yes. You pretty much nailed it. I didn't want him to sign here either, and with that knee we dodged a bullet... But after the MVP year, he could have handled himself in such a way that we all would've loved him and would've been sad to see him go...

Not the case.

 

[OmNomNom]

This is neat even if I don’t have time to sit and watch all of this. College me would have been all over this.

how the hell do you have the brain capacity to focus on all that though

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Why? Centers get paid and he's only 25. Like Suzuki, Hintz, Josh Norris all got about 8m the last few years on a long term deal.

all those players are better than PLD is.

 

[Devils731]

how the hell do you have the brain capacity to focus on all that though

Sometime around the end of the first period the brain capacity would be well restricted by alcohol.

But I think I would drag 3 or 4 TVs into someone’s living room and do rolling games. Just keeping up with the intermissions would be a game.

 

[Devs3cups]

That’s a pretty damn good return for WPG. Makes me wonder how much more we would’ve paid for an extended Meier…

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

PLD signs for 8.5x8. More than fair comp for Timo even though PLD is a center.

I looked at their stats - Their PPG is the same But yes, you add that PLD is a center - ideally this puts a cap on what Meier would get.

Still... I can't help but dislike that PLD contract. He's missing something

 

[OmNomNom]

chevy got a great haul