Around the NHL 2022-2023 *Mod warning in effect pg145

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PocketNines

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Wonder if the press conference at the top of the hour with Horvat and Lamoreillo might come with extension announcement

EDIT – Nope, looks like a rental price was paid (with obvious hopes of extending, similar to both ROR and Tarasenko IMO)
 
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Mike Liut

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Isles are going to regret that. A bubble team with a poor prospect pipeline trading for a soon to be 28 year old having a career year that they need to extend after the season. Not the direction I would go.


They’ll extent him sooner than later
 

Majorityof1

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This is great for ROR and Tarasenko. I didn’t even have the Isles as landing spots

Is it great? Raty isn't that highly rated a prospect. He is the Isle's best, but not super high rated league wide. He wasn't ranked in the top 50 by Wheeler at the start of the season, nor in his 20ish honorable mentions. He was barely 50 in Hockey Writers mid season rankings. Horvat is a more highly rated trade target than our guys. Its likely we get less. Whether that is good or not depends on how you view Beauvillier I guess. He's better than a cap dump, but not much. He's on a 33 point pace making $4M+.

I guess its good that Horvat is off the market, but it also sets the market lower than we may have hoped. If a younger Horvat who is tearing it up this year couldn't get 1st + A prospect, what hope does an older, struggling ROR have?
 

Mike Liut

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Is it great? Raty isn't that highly rated a prospect. He is the Isle's best, but not super high rated league wide. He wasn't ranked in the top 50 by Wheeler at the start of the season, nor in his 20ish honorable mentions. He was barely 50 in Hockey Writers mid season rankings. Horvat is a more highly rated trade target than our guys. Its likely we get less. Whether that is good or not depends on how you view Beauvillier I guess. He's better than a cap dump, but not much. He's on a 33 point pace making $4M+.

I guess its good that Horvat is off the market, but it also sets the market lower than we may have hoped. If a younger Horvat who is tearing it up this year couldn't get 1st + A prospect, what hope does an older, struggling ROR have?


Great meaning Horvat went to the Isles and is off the board. Buyers will be scrambling soon.
 

BrokenFace

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I like how much Horvat returned, but is anyone else worried about the number of buyers left to go after RoR and Tank? Not that I ever root for injuries and I like the player, but that Patches injury in Carolina may save us this TDL.
 

Majorityof1

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Great meaning Horvat went to the Isles and is off the board. Buyers will be scrambling soon.

Will they be? If they weren't offering more than that, will they really offer more for lesser players. They knew who was left if they didn't beat that offer, and they still didn't beat it. I think this just shows it is a buyers market and they aren't willing to offer a ton more than a 1st.
 

Mike Liut

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Will they be? If they weren't offering more than that, will they really offer more for lesser players. They knew who was left if they didn't beat that offer, and they still didn't beat it. I think this just shows it is a buyers market and they aren't willing to offer a ton more than a 1st.


I never believed we were getting much more than a 1st for ROR and Tarasenko and a 2nd for Barbs
 
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PJJJP

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Will they be? If they weren't offering more than that, will they really offer more for lesser players. They knew who was left if they didn't beat that offer, and they still didn't beat it. I think this just shows it is a buyers market and they aren't willing to offer a ton more than a 1st.
Apparently the Canucks wanted Carlo from the Bruins and they said no. The Canucks probably think Beau is better than what the rest of the league thinks. Raty was a ppg player in Liiga in his D+1 season. He is a little above 0.5 ppg in the AHL. He had a poor 12 game audition for the Islanders but they are also a mess overall. I'd probably rate him as a B/B+ tier prospect similar to Neighbors, HIs ceiling is probably a low 2C but he probably is a middle six center. It's a decent return for a rental as we don't know yet if there is an extension. I also don't expect that much from a ROR/Tarasenko trade other than a first plus a small add.
 

PocketNines

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Getting a mid-round 2023 1st + a developing middle six center prospect and a roster player for Horvat is a sizeable return. He's a rental. That first round pick is going to be an excellent prospect. This is not a buyer's market trade. It resets expectations early AND intensifies the musical chairs game.
 

PocketNines

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btw Raty has skill and pro size. At one time he was in the mix to be drafted first overall. There is some upside with this prospect and he is the Isles' top prospect even if their group is weak. As a secondary piece in a rental trade it's not bad
 

Bye Bye Blueston

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Is it great? Raty isn't that highly rated a prospect. He is the Isle's best, but not super high rated league wide. He wasn't ranked in the top 50 by Wheeler at the start of the season, nor in his 20ish honorable mentions. He was barely 50 in Hockey Writers mid season rankings. Horvat is a more highly rated trade target than our guys. Its likely we get less. Whether that is good or not depends on how you view Beauvillier I guess. He's better than a cap dump, but not much. He's on a 33 point pace making $4M+.

I guess its good that Horvat is off the market, but it also sets the market lower than we may have hoped. If a younger Horvat who is tearing it up this year couldn't get 1st + A prospect, what hope does an older, struggling ROR have?
If we get a 1st for tank or ROR, I don’t think most folks realistically expected prospect as good as raty (except perhaps from leafs) On top of it. I’d rate him higher than any of our forward prospects outside our big 3. high end rental price is generally 1st, mediocre prospect, cap dump. Unless you think beau has negative value, and i don’t think Canucks see him that way, they did quite well. especially when you consider that isles 1st is much more valuable than Boston or Toronto 1st.
 
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Xerloris

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If we get a 1st for tank or ROR, I don’t think most folks realistically expected prospect as good as raty (except perhaps from leafs) On top of it. I’d rate him higher than any of our forward prospects outside our big 3. high end rental price is generally 1st, mediocre prospect, cap dump. Unless you think beau has negative value, and i don’t think Canucks see him that way, they did quite well. especially when you consider that isles 1st is much more valuable than Boston or Toronto 1st.

TBH I think I would be happy with a 1st and hopefully a 2nd for 2023 for each of them. Then a 2nd for Barbie, hell throw in a 2nd with Barbie and upgrade the pick to a 1st?
 

PocketNines

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Yeah, if that's a rental price that's a good bar for the sellers. Buyers might not be as dumb and desperate as Lou though.
For me the thing we prize the most in our ROR and Tarasenko rentals is the quality of the first piece of the package. The top end part. It's good that a mid-first got moved here. The pick on a playoff team that wins two rounds is 29-32 but if it's not, it's pretty likely to still be in the mid 20s. Armstrong can in good conscience argue the difference between the value of the pick traded for Horvat and the pick traded for ROR/Tarasenko is meaningful and he can settle for less on the secondary pieces if necessary. I don't think it puts Armstrong in a tough position. There was a case being argued by some that 2024 1sts might move easier than ones in this draft. Maybe that will be true in the end, but this is a good start.
 

Eldon Reid

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This is looking like a good year to come up short of playoffs and sell a few pieces off.

Also too remember with O'Reilly, while his AAV is 7.5 mill, his actual salary is only 1 mill during the season, so that is a hidden bonus for the other team. We paid his signing bonus for the year, which was most of his total salary for the year.
 
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Stupendous Yappi

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For me the thing we prize the most in our ROR and Tarasenko rentals is the quality of the first piece of the package. The top end part. It's good that a mid-first got moved here. The pick on a playoff team that wins two rounds is 29-32 but if it's not, it's pretty likely to still be in the mid 20s. Armstrong can in good conscience argue the difference between the value of the pick traded for Horvat and the pick traded for ROR/Tarasenko is meaningful and he can settle for less on the secondary pieces if necessary. I don't think it puts Armstrong in a tough position. There was a case being argued by some that 2024 1sts might move easier than ones in this draft. Maybe that will be true in the end, but this is a good start.
Did the Islanders not trade their own pick? Or is this projecting where they are likely to finish?
 

MissouriMook

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This is looking like a good year to come up short of playoffs and sell a few pieces off.

Also too remember with O'Reilly, while his AAV is 7.5 mill, his actual salary is only 1 mill during the season, so that is a hidden bonus for the other team. We paid his signing bonus for the year, which was most of his total salary for the year.
It’s also a great opportunity if we need a second team for retention because it will cost them virtually nothing to trade that cap space for an asset.
 

oPlaiD

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It’s their pick. Top 12 protected this year.
This is really an underrated part of that deal. The Islanders could easily finish outside the playoffs, which most teams we'd be acquiring a first round pick from will do. The Islanders could also easily hit this protection this year, but that could also quite possibly end up decent for the Canucks too, since it could happen again in 2024 and that pick will not be protected.

The 1st in this deal is a stronger asset than the 1st we'll realistically get back in any of our deals.

But yeah. The price doesn't necessarily hurt our future prospects, and taking Horvat off the market is certainly a plus for us. Though it's also quite possible Horvat is back on the market by the trade deadline if the Islanders don't make a big push... which would be quite funny to see.
 
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PJJJP

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This is really an underrated part of that deal. The Islanders could easily finish outside the playoffs, which most teams we'd be acquiring a first round pick from will do. The Islanders could also easily hit this protection this year, but that could also quite possibly end up decent for the Canucks too, since it could happen again in 2024 and that pick will not be protected.

The 1st in this deal is a stronger asset than the 1st we'll realistically get back in any of our deals.

But yeah. The price doesn't necessarily hurt our future prospects, and taking Horvat off the market is certainly a plus for us. Though it's also quite possible Horvat is back on the market by the trade deadline if the Islanders don't make a big push... which would be quite funny to see.
The biggest thing for me is that I didn't think the Isles would be buying at the TDL given where they stand. There still is Boston, Leafs, Hurricanes, Jets, Avs, Devils as potential trade partners who still have their first round pick
 

Xerloris

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This is looking like a good year to come up short of playoffs and sell a few pieces off.

Also too remember with O'Reilly, while his AAV is 7.5 mill, his actual salary is only 1 mill during the season, so that is a hidden bonus for the other team. We paid his signing bonus for the year, which was most of his total salary for the year.

Literally no team that's in the hunt for a cup gives a flying shit about money owed on a contract. Why do posters here think it matters?
 

Eldon Reid

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Literally no team that's in the hunt for a cup gives a flying shit about money owed on a contract. Why do posters here think it matters?

Why was it such a huge deal with him when he was getting traded? All I am saying is that there is other opportunities since he isn't owe crap for the rest of the season.

I,E, involving 3rd team in a trade for O'Reilly since the 3rd team can take a percent of contract and pay him a little to get picks.

If we retain 50% of 7.5, it is 3.75 cap hit. Then say he goes to Arizona or whoever and they retain another 50%. O'Reilly cap hit is down to 1.875 and then Maple Leafs acquire him.
 
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Bluesnatic27

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I’m struggling to see the logic of this trade from NYI’s perspective without Horvat extended. They aren’t winning shit this yr in that loaded conference. You do you, Lou.
The bolded is what NYI fans are terrified about.

He’s pulling the Dark Knight gambit of living too long and becoming his team’s villain.
 
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