Around the NHL 2022-2023 *Mod warning in effect pg145

[Ranksu]

If you have Taylor Hall, you're going to pick first overall. One way or another.

I remember this joke, but were did he play at team went south and they draft #1

 

[Majorityof1]

Blues made such a bad decision with Kostin letting him go too soon. Now Edmonton I'd letting him walk

Did you read the article or just see the headline? Thats a bad tactic these days as headlines are clickbait. Kostin isn't for sure out yet.

“I’m not sure what I'm doing on Kostin,” Holland admitted. “The reason being, being a Russian player he's had conversations with the KHL. So I’ve got to decide here over the next three or four days what we're doing.”

They don't have the cap for him and he is negotiating for more than his qualifying offer with the KHL.

Bottom line, they don't want to lose him, they are afraid they can't afford him. Whereas the guy we got for him, we just don't want.

 

[mk80]

Blues made such a bad decision with Kostin letting him go too soon. Now Edmonton I'd letting him walk

Based on what I can find it seems like he's wanting more than the Oilers can afford/are willing to pay him. Holland told reporters they are far apart in their negotiations right now. It also sounds like Kostin might be fielding some KHL offers too.

 

[BlueOil]

klim's gonna have to eat his pride and take less than he wants or head to the khl

 

[542365]

Kilm’s been committed to North American hockey since he was 17. I don’t think he’s going to give it up over a couple hundred thousand right as he’s finding his footing in the NHL. He’s going to make big money in a couple years if he plays like he did last year.

 

[Xerloris]

Yes, it's been done by others and better. By Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemiuex. That's it. Yzerman had a single season with barely more points, and it was in a year where the league scored 3.74 gpg versus 3.18 this year.

Only two players in history have put up comparable years to McDavid's this season. Your standard is the one that's "out there."

You're all claiming McDavid is the best in the world and that's fine but then when I point out that his points have been done before your defense is "well only by good players". get f***ing real. By that dumbass standard Kucherov's 128 point season is also historic because the only people that did better than him were really good players. See how f***ing dumb that is?

 

[mk80]

The Kings got Dubois

 

[stl76]

You're all claiming McDavid is the best in the world and that's fine but then when I point out that his points have been done before your defense is "well only by good players". get f***ing real. By that dumbass standard Kucherov's 128 point season is also historic because the only people that did better than him were really good players. See how f***ing dumb that is?

If you don't appreciate the difference between scoring 153 points and scoring 128, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

The Kings got Dubois

Fleeced

 

[67Blues]

Kilm’s been committed to North American hockey since he was 17. I don’t think he’s going to give it up over a couple hundred thousand right as he’s finding his footing in the NHL. He’s going to make big money in a couple years if he plays like he did last year.

He also has the possibility of getting conscripted and trading his hockey stick for a rifle if he heads back to Russia.

 

[Xerloris]

He also has the possibility of getting conscripted and trading his hockey stick for a rifle if he heads back to Russia.

1.5 mill or going to war? Hmm, I dunno seems like a tough choice.

 

[Robb_K]

I'm happy that The Blues didn't give up one of their 1st Rounders to dump off Krug, and still got Hayes, anyway, at only $3.6 million per year for just a 6th Rounder. I want them to draft 3 high-level prospects with the 3 1st Rounders in this deep draft. They need to stock up on very young, very talented, low-cost players, who will have the same mid-prime career window as Thomas, Kyrou, Perunovich, Dean, Vrana, Bolduc, and next season's first couple draft choices.

 

[Brockon]

I remember this joke, but were did he play at team went south and they draft #1

New Jersey, sort of? It's more that in Hall's first decade in the NHL, his team drafted 1 OA more than any other draft slot. Six 1 OA picks vs 4 non lottery winning picks. That's some crazy string of coincidences.

Hall's Team. Year. 1 OA pick drafted by team (Hall's team draft position if not first)

EDM 2010-11. RNH EDM
EDM 2011-12. Yakupov EDM
EDM 2012-13. Mackinnon COL (7)
EDM 2013-14. Ekblad FLA (3)
EDM 2014-15. McDavid EDM
EDM 2015-16. Matthews TOR (4)
NJD 2016-17. Hischier NJD
NJD 2017-18. Dahlin BUF (17)
NJD 2018-19. Hughes NJD
NJD 2019-20. (7)
ARZ 2019-20. Lafrenière NYR (18)
BUF 2020-21.
BOS 2020-21. Power BUF (21)
BOS 2021-22. Slafkovsky MTL (22 ANA)
BOS 2022-23. TBD (28)

So a team Hall played for has drafted first overall in 6 of Hall's 13 seasons played.

New Jersey finishes
2014-15 25/30
2015-16 20/30
2016-17 27/30 Hall arrives
2017-18 15/31
2018-19 29/31
2019-20 26/31 Hall traded at deadline
2020-21 29/31
2021-22 28/32
2022-23 3/32

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

 

[bleedblue1223]

Going from Newhook to Colton is a huge upgrade.

 

[stl76]

Going from Newhook to Colton is a huge upgrade.

Agreed, you hate to see it.

 

[PJJJP]

That's a good pickup for the avs. Ross scored 16 goals last year and 21 the year before that while getting 3rd line minutes

 

[The Note]

Yeah that is a good bit of business by the Avs. Flipping Newhook for 31 + 37 then immediately dealing 37 for Colton is not too shabby.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You know, I thought Newhook destroyed the market for our late 1sts. If we moved one of them, and only got a Newhook level player, I'd be disappointed. Knowing that 37 can bring a guy like Ross Colton, I have hope again.

Now, Colton is 27 and Newhook is 22, but still.

 

[Brian39]

You're all claiming McDavid is the best in the world and that's fine but then when I point out that his points have been done before your defense is "well only by good players". get f***ing real. By that dumbass standard Kucherov's 128 point season is also historic because the only people that did better than him were really good players. See how f***ing dumb that is?

He just hit a point total that hasn't been reached since 1995/96. His 153 points is 25 points ahead of the now-2nd-highest point total in that 25 year window. When Kucherov hit 128 in 2019, it was also the highest point total in that window. He eclipsed the next-best guy by a single point and there were 30 other seasons worth of guys who came less than 25 points away from his 128 point total.

McDavid's 153 points is 15th all time and a benchmark that 4 total players (himself included) have reached. Kucherov's 128 points is 55th all time and is a benchmark that 25 players have reached. An accomplishment that puts you into a club of 4 total players is obviously a significantly more impressive accomplishment than one that puts you in a club of 25 players.

Gretzky had more productive seasons. Mario had more productive seasons. That is the end of the list of NHL players who have had clearly better offensive seasons.

Yzerman had 155 points in 80 games in 1988/89. That's 2 more points in 2 fewer games. However, that was also in a league that was significantly higher-scoring than today's NHL. Teams averaged 3.74 goals per game that season compared to 3.18 in 2022/23. That's over half a goal per game (per team) than we see in today's NHL. Yzerman was one of four players to hit 150+ points that year (Mario, Wayne, Y, Nicholls) and the league average SV% was .879 (it was .904 this year). Y didn't have a talent like Drai on the team, so there is certainly an argument to be made in his favor. But it is very debatable which season was more impressive.

I've got a lot of time for an argument that some of Orr's 120+ point seasons from the back end were more impressive. He revolutionized the game and did it in a league with wasn't high scoring. But the rapid expansion from 6 to 16 teams meant that this era of hockey also had by far the largest talent gap between good teams and the bottom of the league. Personally, I'd still rank Orr's 130+ point seasons ahead of McDavid's, but it is certainly debatable.

Let's throw Esposito's 152 points in 78 games into the ring. The league was slightly lower scoring than it is today and he had 4 fewer games. He had the benefit of expansion weakening the competition, but there is a great case to be made.

Let's throw Jagr's 149 points in 1996 into that ring as well. The league was ever-so-slightly lower scoring than it was this year. I don't think Jagr has much of a case since he was 2nd on his own team in scoring (Mario had 161 points in 70 games). Jagr benefited from Mario more than McDavid benefited from Drai and I really don't think there is an argument otherwise. But let's throw it on the pile.

Maybe you can make an argument for some of Howe's pre-expansion seasons, but I'm not going to pretend that I've seen anything beyond brief highlight snippets of his play from that era.

That's it. That is the list of seasons you can compare to what McDavid just accomplished. 7 other guys, none of them in the last 25 years and two of them are going back 50+ years. All 7 are no-doubt 1st ballot HOF guys who are universally considered bona-fide legends. There is a word for a season that puts you into such a small club of legends spanning the last 70 years of the league's history: Historic.

 

[Xerloris]

He just hit a point total that hasn't been reached since 1995/96. His 153 points is 25 points ahead of the now-2nd-highest point total in that 25 year window. When Kucherov hit 128 in 2019, it was also the highest point total in that window. He eclipsed the next-best guy by a single point and there were 30 other seasons worth of guys who came less than 25 points away from his 128 point total.

McDavid's 153 points is 15th all time and a benchmark that 4 total players (himself included) have reached. Kucherov's 128 points is 55th all time and is a benchmark that 25 players have reached. An accomplishment that puts you into a club of 4 total players is obviously a significantly more impressive accomplishment than one that puts you in a club of 25 players.

Gretzky had more productive seasons. Mario had more productive seasons. That is the end of the list of NHL players who have had clearly better offensive seasons.

Yzerman had 155 points in 80 games in 1988/89. That's 2 more points in 2 fewer games. However, that was also in a league that was significantly higher-scoring than today's NHL. Teams averaged 3.74 goals per game that season compared to 3.18 in 2022/23. That's over half a goal per game (per team) than we see in today's NHL. Yzerman was one of four players to hit 150+ points that year (Mario, Wayne, Y, Nicholls) and the league average SV% was .879 (it was .904 this year). Y didn't have a talent like Drai on the team, so there is certainly an argument to be made in his favor. But it is very debatable which season was more impressive.

I've got a lot of time for an argument that some of Orr's 120+ point seasons from the back end were more impressive. He revolutionized the game and did it in a league with wasn't high scoring. But the rapid expansion from 6 to 16 teams meant that this era of hockey also had by far the largest talent gap between good teams and the bottom of the league. Personally, I'd still rank Orr's 130+ point seasons ahead of McDavid's, but it is certainly debatable.

Let's throw Esposito's 152 points in 78 games into the ring. The league was slightly lower scoring than it is today and he had 4 fewer games. He had the benefit of expansion weakening the competition, but there is a great case to be made.

Let's throw Jagr's 149 points in 1996 into that ring as well. The league was ever-so-slightly lower scoring than it was this year. I don't think Jagr has much of a case since he was 2nd on his own team in scoring (Mario had 161 points in 70 games). Jagr benefited from Mario more than McDavid benefited from Drai and I really don't think there is an argument otherwise. But let's throw it on the pile.

Maybe you can make an argument for some of Howe's pre-expansion seasons, but I'm not going to pretend that I've seen anything beyond brief highlight snippets of his play from that era.

That's it. That is the list of seasons you can compare to what McDavid just accomplished. 7 other guys, none of them in the last 25 years and two of them are going back 50+ years. All 7 are no-doubt 1st ballot HOF guys who are universally considered bona-fide legends. There is a word for a season that puts you into such a small club of legends spanning the last 70 years of the league's history: Historic.

Saying 150 points is historic after we have seen 200 point seasons is a joke. You talked about the average scoring between Mario's and McDavids 150 point season but did you take into account the type of hockey being played? Clutch and grab trap vs basically pond hockey for McDavid because no one will grab him and make him pull them around like a sled dog the way they did to Mario? Hell, you could take probably 12 guys from the mid 90's in the trap era and put them in todays NHL and they would hit 150 points playing pond hockey the way McDavid does. Bure would probably hit 100 goals.


EDIT
I just want to clarify. I do not think Tkachuks season out did McDavid for the hart which is why I said it's a shame the playoffs aren't counted as well because with the playoffs I think Tkachuk would have been more deserving.

As for his 150 point season. I am not saying it's not amazing and awesome to see, my argument is with the term historic. I cannot call something that falls 25% short of something actually historic "historic". Putting them both in the same category diminishes the 200 point seasons of the past.

 

[PJJJP]

Damn the devils are looking good. Have Hughes, Meier, Bratt, Hischier locked up on long term deals plus Mercer is still on his ELC for 1 more year. They have Hughes and Nemec coming up in the pipeline on D and they still have 10 mil in cap space.

 

[Brian39]

Saying 150 points is historic after we have seen 200 point seasons is a joke. You talked about the average scoring between Mario's and McDavids 150 point season but did you take into account the type of hockey being played? Clutch and grab trap vs basically pond hockey for McDavid because no one will grab him and make him pull them around like a sled dog the way they did to Mario? Hell, you could take probably 12 guys from the mid 90's in the trap era and put them in todays NHL and they would hit 150 points playing pond hockey the way McDavid does. Bure would probably hit 100 goals.


EDIT
I just want to clarify. I do not think Tkachuks season out did McDavid for the hart which is why I said it's a shame the playoffs aren't counted as well because with the playoffs I think Tkachuk would have been more deserving.

As for his 150 point season. I am not saying it's not amazing and awesome to see, my argument is with the term historic. I cannot call something that falls 25% short of something actually historic "historic". Putting them both in the same category diminishes the 200 point seasons of the past.

The reason I brought up the 25 years between 150 point seasons was to refute your moronic comparison to Kucherov. The entire point was that Kucherov barely edged out the other scoring leaders from that era while McDavid blew them out of the water. As much as you want to offer Kucherov's 128 as comparable, it isn't remotely close to true.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. You're saying that scoring in the clutch and grab era was much harder than today, but fully ignoring that it is still much harder to score today than it was in the era of 165+ point seasons.

The absolute lowest-scoring season in the clutch and grab era saw teams average 2.57 goals per game (2003/04). Every other season was 2.63 or higher.

In 2022/23, teams averaged 3.18 goals per game.

The lowest team average for any season with a 165+ point scorer in NHL history was 3.67 goals per game (Gretzky's 183 point season). That number becomes 3.74 goals per game if we are just looking at the 190+ point seasons.

The gap between the clutch and grab era and today was about half a goal per game (per team). The gap in scoring between today and the era of Wayne/Mario hitting/nearing 200 points was about half a goal per game.

The top 12 highest scoring seasons from 1996/97 to 2003/04 were 99-127 points. If you believe that plunking these seasons into today's NHL would have gotten them an all an extra 23-51 points to get to the 50 goal mark, then you need to apply the same standard to putting McDavid into the era where 200+ points was possible. And guess what? That would put him somewhere between 176 and 204 points. Right there with Wayne and Mario for 'best season ever.'

His season this year taken in the context of NHL scoring eras is the frontrunner for best offensive season from any player not named Wayne or Mario. And it is better than a good chunk of seasons that even those two had. I don't see any argument that such a performance isn't historic unless you are saying that only 2 forwards in the NHL's history have had historic performances.

This was a top 10 performance when adjusting for era. He became just the 5th player in league history to lead the league in goals and assists (Wayne, Mario, Howe, and Esposito are the others who did it). The 25 point gap between him and 2nd place is the largest gap the league has seen since 1990/91 when Wayne had a 32 point cushion on Hull.

He had by far the best regular season the sport has seen in 30 years. Acting like 153 points in today's NHL isn't an insane feat is ridiculous.

 

[PJJJP]

Damn Smith to the pens for only a 3rd. It’s a good deal for the pens

 

[TheDizee]

thats alot of money for someone who is in reality a 3rd line player. if the cap goes up i guess its ok