Around the NHL 2020-2021 | Offseason Edition

[The Zetterberg Era]

The Nielsen deal was f***ing brutal on day 1.
I understand that deal and see the deal Staal signed with Minnesota.

I wonder what Staal might have done here. My guess is that he'd have helped quite a bit.

Staal vs Nielsen since that UFA season.
Staal

344	115	136	251

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

vs
Nielsen

315	48	76	124

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Let's ignore the fact Staal wanted to play in Minnesota and was willing to take a discount with them. Also feel like we need to throw up their numbers the couple years before the deal... I feel like the narrative was Staal was finished after that year split in Carolina and New York. Great hindsight in that one.

I don't think any of us saw the cliff coming as fast for Nielsen as it did. I think we thought these last two years would be bad, but it sucked right away. Hell you had Islanders fans coming here to tell us how good he was and how much we would like him when he signed.

 

[MBH]

Let's ignore the fact Staal wanted to play in Minnesota and was willing to take a discount with them. Also feel like we need to throw up their numbers the couple years before the deal... I feel like the narrative was Staal was finished after that year split in Carolina and New York. Great hindsight in that one.

I don't think any of us saw the cliff coming as fast for Nielsen as it did. I think we thought these last two years would be bad, but it sucked right away. Hell you had Islanders fans coming here to tell us how good he was and how much we would like him when he signed.

No hindsight is necessary.
I advocated for Staal that summer precisely because he was undervalued after a rough season.

I've yet to see any real evidence that Staal would only play in Minnesota. Just fans who make excuses for ineptitude grasping at straws and repeating myths, over and over and over again.

But even if you couldn't sign Staal.
Signing Nielsen to a six year deal...
A 32-year-old to a six-year deal.

Indefensible.
Just another wasteful Holland contract.

Edit:
"They were a team that I kind of had on my radar for a little while now," Staal said. "Knowing I was going to be in this position, I was scouring over team rosters and looking for spots and opportunities where I could be put in a position to play my best kind of hockey. Minnesota was right up there."
Staal, whose contract carries an average annual value of $3.5 million, has a chance to help fill one of the Wild's biggest needs: depth at center. Captain Mikko Koivu and Erik Haula were the only sure things the Wild have.

So Staal wanted a place to prove himself.
You don't think he could have the opportunity to prove himself in Detroit? Which had just lost Datsyuk?

 

[Winger98]

The Nielsen deal was f***ing brutal on day 1.
I understand that deal and see the deal Staal signed with Minnesota.

I wonder what Staal might have done here. My guess is that he'd have helped quite a bit.

Staal vs Nielsen since that UFA season.
Staal

344	115	136	251

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

vs
Nielsen

315	48	76	124

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Nielsen deal was pretty much what you expect to sign guys in UFA unless they are signing "show me" deals like Staal did. And Staal was signing that deal because he looked flat out bad when he went to NYR and put up 6 points in twenty games. And Haula/Koivu weren't the only center options when Staal signed there. Granlund and Coyle were both entering their fourth full seasons and had played extensively at center at that point. That minny team also had Zucker, Niedereiter, Parise, and Pominville up front while running Suter, Dumba, Brodin, and Spurgeon out on the blueline.

Those Minny teams were in a ridiculously better position than us. Their worst season was still better than our best season.

Could Staal have been more productive here? Sure, he had a higher ceiling throughout their careers and did well in Minny. Staal also had more help in Minny. Maybe if we would have given him $5m for 6 years we could have gotten him.

 

[FabricDetails]

Boss move, haha. What a silly question.

 

[MBH]

The Nielsen deal was pretty much what you expect to sign guys in UFA unless they are signing "show me" deals like Staal did. And Staal was signing that deal because he looked flat out bad when he went to NYR and put up 6 points in twenty games. And Haula/Koivu weren't the only center options when Staal signed there. Granlund and Coyle were both entering their fourth full seasons and had played extensively at center at that point. That minny team also had Zucker, Niedereiter, Parise, and Pominville up front while running Suter, Dumba, Brodin, and Spurgeon out on the blueline.

Those Minny teams were in a ridiculously better position than us. Their worst season was still better than our best season.

Could Staal have been more productive here? Sure, he had a higher ceiling throughout their careers and did well in Minny. Staal also had more help in Minny. Maybe if we would have given him $5m for 6 years we could have gotten him.

Oh, we could have gotten him a lot cheaper than that, and for fewer years.
On that day, we paid
Darren Helm 5x$3.85
Nielsen 6x$5.25

And Staal got:
3x$3.5

I'm guessing a 4x4M would have put us in the mix, given the opportunity Staal would have had in Detroit.

But even if you don't get Staal, you don't overpay and overcommit to a 32-year-old Frans Nielsen. You can just walk away and let that be someone else's mistake.

 

[Winger98]

Oh, we could have gotten him a lot cheaper than that, and for fewer years.
On that day, we paid
Darren Helm 5x$3.85
Nielsen 6x$5.25

And Staal got:
3x$3.5

I'm guessing a 4x4M would have put us in the mix, given the opportunity Staal would have had in Detroit.

But even if you don't get Staal, you don't overpay and overcommit to a 32-year-old Frans Nielsen. You can just walk away and let that be someone else's mistake.

I think we needed/wanted a center beyond Ilitch demanding us to get the "next" best one after Stamkos. If we don't sign nielsen and we miss on Staal, who was the next option? Gagner? hindsight, with Z coming back strong after an altered off-season training program and Larkin handling the 2C spot says it could have been made to work, but either happening (let alone both) were far from guarantees.

I think Minny was in a far better spot than us. If there were other options, I think we have to go north of 4x4. I'm not nearly as down on Nielsen's contract as others, but some of that number might just be a reflection of where players saw us and the premium we needed to pay to get someone to sign on.

 

[MBH]

I think we needed/wanted a center beyond Ilitch demanding us to get the "next" best one after Stamkos. If we don't sign nielsen and we miss on Staal, who was the next option? Gagner? hindsight, with Z coming back strong after an altered off-season training program and Larkin handling the 2C spot says it could have been made to work, but either happening (let alone both) were far from guarantees.

I think Minny was in a far better spot than us. If there were other options, I think we have to go north of 4x4. I'm not nearly as down on Nielsen's contract as others, but some of that number might just be a reflection of where players saw us and the premium we needed to pay to get someone to sign on.

I totally understood the need for a 2C.
On the other hand, we had Zetterberg, Larkin, Helm, Sheahan, Glendening, Nosek,

There is a caliber of player you overpay for.
Nielsen has never been in that caliber.

End of the day, we've played zero playoff games with Nielsen on our team.

 

[FabricDetails]

Man... They DGAF, huh?

 

[MBH]

Earlier in the game, this guy popped AA in the face during a goalmouth scrum. And then they wrestled around Sorenson took him to the ice.
I had a feeling that wouldn't sit well with AA.
So as the buzzer sounded

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

per Dobber:

" Who is Michael Bunting, you ask? With another goal on Friday, Bunting now has five goals in six games this season. That includes a hat trick against the Kings on Monday. Prior to this season, Bunting had played five career NHL games, which were two seasons ago in 2018-19. Yet he's riding shotgun on a scoring line with Conor Garland and Nick Schmaltz, which suggests to me that there might continue to be something there in the short term.

Bunting's Dobber Prospects profile hardly sells me on him as a must-add to your keeper team, but he did finish last season 12th in AHL scoring. The profile does compare him with Brad Marchand, who if I remember correctly didn't arrive in the NHL with a ton of fanfare but built up a reputation as a pest first. So who knows, maybe Bunting "Marchands" his way onto the Coyotes roster for more than a cup of coffee since Marchand is one of those players you hate but would love to have on your team. He also delivered four hits on Friday, so there appears to be a physical component to his game. "

 

[Reddwit]

Man... They DGAF, huh?

Lol, even their announcers are idiots. The ref held up 6 fingers and did a whirly-do with his finger pointing to the ice to indicate he was talking about the ice. And the announcers are like “I can’t read lips, still not sure if this is Too Many Men...” Morons.

 

[Reddwit]

Earlier in the game, this guy popped AA in the face during a goalmouth scrum. And then they wrestled around Sorenson took him to the ice.
I had a feeling that wouldn't sit well with AA.
So as the buzzer sounded

Awesome. I miss AA.

 

[MBH]

Jurco playing for Vegas tonight. Good to see him back in the show.

 

[14ari13]

Man... They DGAF, huh?

Lol, it was at least an 8 min penalty, not 2.

Jurco playing for Vegas tonight. Good to see him back in the show.

Who is Jurco?

 

[14ari13]

Ovechkin scored again.

MAF is climbing too.

Any other milestones?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Boss move, haha. What a silly question.

It turned into a good fluff piece for the Athletic. Worth a read.

 

[FabricDetails]

Would we have dragged Kenny for this?

 

[MBH]

Would we have dragged Kenny for this?

The Oilers roster is f***ed
3 guys averaging .5 points a game.
Flat cap or not, they should have gone after Hall.

Love to see Hall punching the moronic hivemind in the face right now.
The narrative around Hall got so f***ing stupid.

 

[Winger98]

Would we have dragged Kenny for this?

Watching the youtube and my initial reaction is that it's just a stupid take that doesn't take anything into account other that, "argh, they have McDavid! They have Draisaitl! urrrrrrgggghhhh!"
And their solution for making moves is that Holland has to be "clever."

The Oil are capped out, RNH is hurt, Klefbom is hurt. In the two games since RNH went down, McDavid and Draisaitl have one point between them. Holland's cleaning up a mess there while keeping that team competitive and he's succeeded at it. I have to say for all of the love Draisaitl gets, at some point he needs to do it consistently centering his own line.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Would we have dragged Kenny for this?

A good chunk would, I'm sure. A good chunk would also drag him for going all in. People are stupid.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I like that guy's trade trees. They're fun to follow along with. But this video is really really bad.

 

[MBH]

Holland f***ed up.
He traded 2 seconds for AA. And then he let him walk. Just resigning him would have given the Oilers some decent secondary scoring.
It's now clear he lost the Neal trade.
The Kyle Turris signing didn't work.

3 players forwards are averaging 1/2 point a game.

It's such a f***ed up team.
McDavid & Drai.
And that's it.
They're enough to win you some games - especially in a weak division this year. But that's not a team.
Oilers fans get to watch great hockey players. But it'll be years before they can win anything.
5 years, minimum.
And that's if McDavid and Drai don't get raises.

 

[14ari13]

Ovechkin, MAF and Marlau milestones.
Anyone else?

 

[Red Stanley]

Ovi with that sweet -4 today as the Caps lose 6-3 to the Bs. How do you play so many games, are a captain of a cup winning team and still look completely lost and/or uninterested defensively? Legendary scoring machine and 100% not captain material imo.

 

[Konnan511]

Ovi with that sweet -4 today as the Caps lose 6-3 to the Bs. How do you play so many games, are a captain of a cup winning team and still look completely lost and/or uninterested defensively? Legendary scoring machine and 100% not captain material imo.

Lidstrom went -5 before. It happens.