Around the NHL 2020-2021 | Offseason Edition

[jaster]

Really sad to see some people still hung up on this guy. I'm just glad I don't have to suffer through watching him and his incredibly low hockey IQ every other night.

Good.

Riddance.

 

[MBH]

Really sad to see some people still hung up on this guy. I'm just glad I don't have to suffer through watching him and his incredibly low hockey IQ every other night.

Good.

Riddance.

Would you like a tissue?
Anyone who thinks AA has a low hockey IQ has a low hockey IQ.

 

[MBH]

That 2018 defense class is just crazy.
Here's Dobson scoring goal #3 of the yet for the Islanders.

1. Dahlin 25 games 1-10-11 (starting to come around)
7. Hughes 30 games 2-22-24
8. Boqvist 17 games 1-11-12
10. Bouchard 10 games 1-3-4
12. Dobson 27 games 3-9-12
17. Smith 23 games 2-10-12
22. Miller 22 games 1-5-6
27. Beaudin 12 games 2-3-5
29. Sandin 1 game 0-1-1
38. Romanov 25 games 1-4-5

 

[jaster]

Would you like a tissue?
Anyone who thinks AA has a low hockey IQ has a low hockey IQ.

Your player analysis and affinity for AA make me want a whole carton of tissues. A pallet from Costco even. Some water too, due to dehydration from the incessant weeping.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Your player analysis and affinity for AA make me want a whole carton of tissues. A pallet from Costco even. Some water too, due to dehydration from the incessant weeping.

"pallet from Costco".

Add Gatorade for electrolytes too.

 

[lomekian]

His defensive problems were always overblown by people looking to defend Blashill.
Every once in awhile you see AA lose his man if he gets caught puck watching on a long shift in the zone - and that happens to almost every winger.
He doesn't give the puck away much in his own zone.
His backchecking is above average to even very good in transition.

There were two legit AA issues, defensively, and one other issue.

1) He sometimes blew the zone looking for a lob pass or lead pass when the safe play was waiting on the boards and contesting the chip up the boards.
I'm not really sure what's the better option. But AA's option wasn't the safe option.

2) AA doesn't physically engage much. He'll lift a stick and slash a stick. But who won't often dig in with his body, and power through a guy to make the play. This hurts him on battles in all 3 zones. It allows other teams to escape the Ozone. It allows more 50-50 neutral zone battles to come into the dzone. It creates longer Dzone shifts.

3) The other issue is AA's sulking. Without a doubt, last year's woes were caused by the back injury to some degree. But I'm also pretty sure AA just has a low "give a f***" threshold when coached by clueless twats like Blashill.

As for AA's ability to keep this up.
The stats tell the story.
AA's G/60 and P/60 at ES.
15-16 1.53 2.48
16-17 1.36 2.00
17-18 0.96 1.92
18-19 1.35 2.21
19-20 0.64 1.57
20-21 1.67 2.78

Taking out last year, it's pretty clear you can count on at least 1.0 G/60 and 2 P/60
Those are solid production numbers.

Look - I like AA, but you like him more than me. I thought his compete level in his own zone was poor, but far worse, he was and always has been a terrible puck watcher. He'd skate back into a good position but just couldn't read the play. So many goals against with him reacting just too late, or losing his man.

I don't put it down to effort or attitude, but rather that AA's biggest flaw is his hockey sense. So much speed and skill and he doesn't controller disconnect, but he's just not that good at reading play, particularly in his own end. I never took it to be some big character flaw like some, but the guy will always be a worry defensively.

There's a reason he's looked best whenever he's with experienced smart players who don't rely on physical gifts to be effective. I miss the excitement he brought, but I don't miss seeing him try to skate into shot just as the opposition guy scores or plays the killer pass.

As a goalscoring third line guy who could be effective on the 2nd line, I'd have been very happy to keep him, but I think 2 2nds and Gagner was a good return.

 

[lomekian]

Maybe.
Or maybe when a coach jerks a young kid around as he's trying to navigate the early days of the NHL, you risk f***ing up that development.
Talk to Peter Mrazek about getting the f*** away from Blashill.

The best season of Mrazek's career was under Blashill....

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Would you like a tissue?
Anyone who thinks AA has a low hockey IQ has a low hockey IQ.

AA has a low hockey IQ, among the worst I have seen in the defensive zone. He is terrible at reading his teammates. That he flies the zone over and over and gets open doesn't actually speak to his hockey IQ, he does the same things repetitively to get open and the other players use that. He has amazing athletic gifts and incredible hands at the speed he travels. Outside of those which are on superstar levels, he is below average in almost every aspect. He doesn't anticipate well, he doesn't read the flow of play especially defensively.

Just because you say so isn't something I have to agree with. You're too attached to AA, it happens, I was the same way with Brendan Smith. Were there things that resulted in him not coming online like we hoped in all but really one season... Keep in mind that was because stunningly enough Luke Glendening freed him up to be useful something I know is a bitter pill for you to swallow with the linemates angles being your problem. In my opinion yes, but I think most of the fault is with expectations AA could round his game and get smarter, it is actually precisely what you're alleging he has in spades that I think has held him back from becoming a true top 6 player. He just fell short, he isn't great, he has tunnel vision more often than not, I had hoped he would be a significantly better version of Viktor Stalberg, he wound up being an minor upgraded version and pretty similar to him. He is speed weapon, that is all he is.

0.7

Career	Adjusted Point Shares (Best to Worst)
Player	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Andreas Athanasiou		5.9	3.6	2.7	2.1	1.0
Shawn Bates	87.8	5.9	3.1	2.4	2.0	1.2	0.7	0.3
Alexander Wennberg	86.9	5.9	3.5	3.3	1.4	0.8	-0.1
Ken Smith	86.6	5.7	3.3	3.0	2.0	1.7	0.2	0.1
Ryan Dzingel	86.4	5.7	3.7	3.5	2.7	0.9
Peter Mueller	85.9	5.4	3.7	2.9	2.3	1.7
Bob Sirois	85.2	5.1	4.2	2.8	2.1	1.1	0.1
Alexander Korolyuk	84.2	5.5	3.9	3.3	2.5	0.7	0.1
Oliver Bjorkstrand	83.9	5.8	4.8	3.4	1.7	1.3
Victor Rask	83.8	5.6	4.2	2.9	2.7	1.5	0.2
Josef Vasicek	83.5	5.0	3.6	2.8	1.4	1.2	1.1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thru 7 Years	Adjusted Point Shares (Best to Worst)
Player	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Andreas Athanasiou		5.9	3.6	2.7	2.1	1.0
Bob Pulford*	91.4	5.5	3.9	2.8	2.2	1.5
Craig Laughlin	91.2	6.2	3.3	3.0	2.3	1.5
Peter Mueller	89.7	5.4	3.7	2.9	2.3	1.7
Ryan Dzingel	89.1	5.7	3.7	3.5	2.7	0.9
Erik Haula	88.8	5.8	4.8	2.8	2.2	0.6
Guillaume Latendresse	88.8	5.3	3.1	3.0	2.2	0.8
Jeff O'Neill	88.8	6.5	3.9	2.9	1.7	1.3
Alex Steen	88.8	6.2	3.5	3.5	2.7	1.2
Ab McDonald	88.4	5.5	3.9	3.0	2.9	1.2
Mickey Roach	88.4	5.9	3.2	2.2	1.9	1.6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Look at the names from Hockey References...

Jeff O'Neill and Steen are probably the best ones here. But to pretend this is some superstar that was wasted, he just simply isn't that good. He has strengths and he has weaknesses. When his shooting percentage spikes and when he gets more breakaways he has more offensive output, also while being shielded with heavy offensive zone starts. But he gets an assist every four games or so, because he doesn't use his teammates. He actually screams of a guy with lower hockey IQ. The gifts he has can be purposed, it should keep him in the league a while as a third line offensive leverage guy. He should play another 200 to 400 games if he can get himself in the right situations. Not a bad career, not what we hoped, time to move on.

 

[MBH]

AA has a low hockey IQ, among the worst I have seen in the defensive zone. He is terrible at reading his teammates. That he flies the zone over and over and gets open doesn't actually speak to his hockey IQ, he does the same things repetitively to get open and the other players use that. He has amazing athletic gifts and incredible hands at the speed he travels. Outside of those which are on superstar levels, he is below average in almost every aspect. He doesn't anticipate well, he doesn't read the flow of play especially defensively.

Just because you say so isn't something I have to agree with. You're too attached to AA, it happens, I was the same way with Brendan Smith. Were there things that resulted in him not coming online like we hoped in all but really one season... Keep in mind that was because stunningly enough Luke Glendening freed him up to be useful something I know is a bitter pill for you to swallow with the linemates angles being your problem. In my opinion yes, but I think most of the fault is with expectations AA could round his game and get smarter, it is actually precisely what you're alleging he has in spades that I think has held him back from becoming a true top 6 player. He just fell short, he isn't great, he has tunnel vision more often than not, I had hoped he would be a significantly better version of Viktor Stalberg, he wound up being an minor upgraded version and pretty similar to him. He is speed weapon, that is all he is.

0.7

Career	Adjusted Point Shares (Best to Worst)
Player	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Andreas Athanasiou		5.9	3.6	2.7	2.1	1.0
Shawn Bates	87.8	5.9	3.1	2.4	2.0	1.2	0.7	0.3
Alexander Wennberg	86.9	5.9	3.5	3.3	1.4	0.8	-0.1
Ken Smith	86.6	5.7	3.3	3.0	2.0	1.7	0.2	0.1
Ryan Dzingel	86.4	5.7	3.7	3.5	2.7	0.9
Peter Mueller	85.9	5.4	3.7	2.9	2.3	1.7
Bob Sirois	85.2	5.1	4.2	2.8	2.1	1.1	0.1
Alexander Korolyuk	84.2	5.5	3.9	3.3	2.5	0.7	0.1
Oliver Bjorkstrand	83.9	5.8	4.8	3.4	1.7	1.3
Victor Rask	83.8	5.6	4.2	2.9	2.7	1.5	0.2
Josef Vasicek	83.5	5.0	3.6	2.8	1.4	1.2	1.1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thru 7 Years	Adjusted Point Shares (Best to Worst)
Player	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
Andreas Athanasiou		5.9	3.6	2.7	2.1	1.0
Bob Pulford*	91.4	5.5	3.9	2.8	2.2	1.5
Craig Laughlin	91.2	6.2	3.3	3.0	2.3	1.5
Peter Mueller	89.7	5.4	3.7	2.9	2.3	1.7
Ryan Dzingel	89.1	5.7	3.7	3.5	2.7	0.9
Erik Haula	88.8	5.8	4.8	2.8	2.2	0.6
Guillaume Latendresse	88.8	5.3	3.1	3.0	2.2	0.8
Jeff O'Neill	88.8	6.5	3.9	2.9	1.7	1.3
Alex Steen	88.8	6.2	3.5	3.5	2.7	1.2
Ab McDonald	88.4	5.5	3.9	3.0	2.9	1.2
Mickey Roach	88.4	5.9	3.2	2.2	1.9	1.6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Look at the names from Hockey References...

Jeff O'Neill and Steen are probably the best ones here. But to pretend this is some superstar that was wasted, he just simply isn't that good. He has strengths and he has weaknesses. When his shooting percentage spikes and when he gets more breakaways he has more offensive output, also while being shielded with heavy offensive zone starts. But he gets an assist every four games or so, because he doesn't use his teammates. He actually screams of a guy with lower hockey IQ. The gifts he has can be purposed, it should keep him in the league a while as a third line offensive leverage guy. He should play another 200 to 400 games if he can get himself in the right situations. Not a bad career, not what we hoped, time to move on.

Your IQ take, like Jaster's, has no factual basis.'
You can get away with it because there's no way to prove it disprove it.

Suffice it to say, you don't become one of the more productive players in the NHL with low IQ.
Nothing about AA's game says low IQ.
He doesn't have elite hockey sense. But the kid can make plays. He sees the plays developing.
Does he force plays sometimes? Yes. AA plays best when he plays like the go-to guy. When he's trying to defer (like he did on the line McDavid or Drai, or like he sometimes does with Carter0), he makes passes he shouldn't.
When he takes the puck and drives, he's one of the best transition forwards in the NHL.

Nobody's pretending a superstar.
What he is is a quality middle six forward on any NHL team and better than virtually any of our wingers at the moment,

Hockey reference career numbers? Point shares? I've honestly never seen anyone make these arguments before, so I don't know man.

Even with last year's shitty season, AA ranks in the top 40 NHL in goals/60 over the last three seasons.

I'm gonna keep posting AA's goals in this Around the NHL thread.
I won't start arguments about his value as a player. But I'll engage if others do.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Your IQ take, like Jaster's, has no factual basis.'
You can get away with it because there's no way to prove it disprove it.

Suffice it to say, you don't become one of the more productive players in the NHL with low IQ.
Nothing about AA's game says low IQ.
He doesn't have elite hockey sense. But the kid can make plays. He sees the plays developing.
Does he force plays sometimes? Yes. AA plays best when he plays like the go-to guy. When he's trying to defer (like he did on the line McDavid or Drai, or like he sometimes does with Carter0), he makes passes he shouldn't.
When he takes the puck and drives, he's one of the best transition forwards in the NHL.

Nobody's pretending a superstar.
What he is is a quality middle six forward on any NHL team and better than virtually any of our wingers at the moment,

Hockey reference career numbers? Point shares? I've honestly never seen anyone make these arguments before, so I don't know man.

Even with last year's shitty season, AA ranks in the top 40 NHL in goals/60 over the last three seasons.

Which is what you have done for now half a decade on the plus side... Where have you proved he has a good hockey IQ, because of goals?

One of the most productive players in the NHL...

Guy produces at half a point a game over 300 plus games, gets an assist every four, he is a decent finisher in transition and really only transition.

His minutes are down again and his linemates are the problem, familiar excuse. Sorry this isn't a small sample size and while you can continue to play the goals per 60 card he clearly doesn't bring enough of anything else to the table and doesn't get more opportunity because of that. Are you just maintaining the entire league is missing the prism you view AA through? It is because he lacks consistency and hockey intelligence in my opinion. The suggestion otherwise is frankly denial at this point. His hot start is starting to fade, no doubt some coaches in the West started saying in chalk talk, just keep him out of transition. His coach plays him under 15 minutes and heavy offensive zone usage. Really that was the insane thing Tippett did in terms of starting him in the d-zone but LA is using him correctly. He is who we thought he was. We didn't cry this much about losing Marty Lapointe or any other middle six player with some strengths and weaknesses.

He was the third best winger on the team when he left, he would still be behind Mantha and Bertuzzi. We are hopefully pushing them down the lineup too at some point. Great return for him, so glad we didn't sign him to an extension. We will have to see if Yzerman cuts bait with some of the other guys like a Mantha or Bertuzzi, if the return is right and it serves it's purpose, well then good.

I watch a lot of LA, still see the same problems, just has a little more puck luck at the start and seems to be returning to the guy I know. Like I said hopefully for him he can ground out another 300 or 400 games. He has been a mediocre middle six player that can score in transition for a while based off speed on borderline playoff teams or flat out bad teams. The pining for him just doesn't make a lot of sense at this point for me, sorry.

It is what it is, I know we won't agree on him. But his Goals per 60 stopped saving him with me a couple years ago. I did think he might be rounding a corner at one point, I just think it was a longer than normal hot streak really, he just isn't capable of a higher level than what he is.

Look - I like AA, but you like him more than me. I thought his compete level in his own zone was poor, but far worse, he was and always has been a terrible puck watcher. He'd skate back into a good position but just couldn't read the play. So many goals against with him reacting just too late, or losing his man.

I don't put it down to effort or attitude, but rather that AA's biggest flaw is his hockey sense. So much speed and skill and he doesn't controller disconnect, but he's just not that good at reading play, particularly in his own end. I never took it to be some big character flaw like some, but the guy will always be a worry defensively.

There's a reason he's looked best whenever he's with experienced smart players who don't rely on physical gifts to be effective. I miss the excitement he brought, but I don't miss seeing him try to skate into shot just as the opposition guy scores or plays the killer pass.

As a goalscoring third line guy who could be effective on the 2nd line, I'd have been very happy to keep him, but I think 2 2nds and Gagner was a good return.

He is having trouble holding down a gig on a second line on a couple different teams. Three different coaches, more if you're going back to junior have had their issues. I don't think he is our player to make excuses for anymore. Ultimately he is just a flawed guy with sub-optimal hockey IQ in my opinion. His skating should keep him in the league for a bit though as does his above average finishing in transition.

I think he is a third line goal scorer.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

His defensive problems were always overblown by people looking to defend Blashill.
Every once in awhile you see AA lose his man if he gets caught puck watching on a long shift in the zone - and that happens to almost every winger.
He doesn't give the puck away much in his own zone.
His backchecking is above average to even very good in transition.

There were two legit AA issues, defensively, and one other issue.

1) He sometimes blew the zone looking for a lob pass or lead pass when the safe play was waiting on the boards and contesting the chip up the boards.
I'm not really sure what's the better option. But AA's option wasn't the safe option.

2) AA doesn't physically engage much. He'll lift a stick and slash a stick. But who won't often dig in with his body, and power through a guy to make the play. This hurts him on battles in all 3 zones. It allows other teams to escape the Ozone. It allows more 50-50 neutral zone battles to come into the dzone. It creates longer Dzone shifts.

3) The other issue is AA's sulking. Without a doubt, last year's woes were caused by the back injury to some degree. But I'm also pretty sure AA just has a low "give a f***" threshold when coached by clueless twats like Blashill.

As for AA's ability to keep this up.
The stats tell the story.
AA's G/60 and P/60 at ES.
15-16 1.53 2.48
16-17 1.36 2.00
17-18 0.96 1.92
18-19 1.35 2.21
19-20 0.64 1.57
20-21 1.67 2.78

Taking out last year, it's pretty clear you can count on at least 1.0 G/60 and 2 P/60
Those are solid production numbers.

I'm sorry... But, it isn't a point in his favor that he plays incredibly shitty for and doesn't respect a bad coach.

Also, no, one of his big problems is that he's an all-or-nothing guy on his rushes. He would get the transition attempts and he'd get one shot and be done. No support, no puck control, just one (admittedly decent quality) chance and the puck is coming back the other way. That's evidenced by a guy like him routinely being under 50% Corsi. He's the type of player who should have the puck more than he doesn't have it. He's puck dominant and he has skill. Why on Earth would his Corsi numbers be so bad and so consistently bad with the talent he has? So, his main defensive shortcoming is his offensive game. By its very design, his defensive game is going to suffer. It's a lot easier to be good defensively if you're not selling out for the offensive transition chance.

It's why a guy who had his speed completely abandon him due to injury (like Zetterberg) was still fantastic defensively and a good choice to be out on the ice for 3-on-3 hockey. It's also why AA was such a horrendous fit for the Wings. They were trying to go low-event hockey and AA's game is all high-event. He has speed and hands so he wants to use them. But the rest of the team strategy has pretty much always been based around controlling the puck and limiting the offensive chances of the other guy.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's the hometown narrative.
Mrazek.
Jurco.
Athanasiou.
Ouellet.
Marchenko.
Sheahan.
Tatar.
Pulkkinen.
Nyquist.
Mantha.
Cholowski.
Svechnikov.
Maybe even Larkin at this point.

Maybe all guys not as good as we wanted.
But all guys who looked good at times in Detroit and then got Glendeninged/Millered and Blashilled to a lower level of hockey.

Some guys survived in the NHL. Some didn't.

But that's OK.
We still got years of watching Abby and Helm in he top six and Trevor Daley and Jonathan Ericsson playing over young defensemen---
All important steps as Captains Holland and Blashill drove these team to the depths of the NHL's basement.

Jurco is the only guy on that list that I would wholly put the blame on the Wings coaching staff. They actually dicked around with his ice time, with what they asked of him, the whole nine yards. Tomas Jurco was done very dirty by Babcock and Blashill.

Everyone else on that list who isn't Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, and Larkin (all of whom I don't understand why they are on it) were let go from the Wings due to their own failings. Mrazek was and still is wildly inconsistent. Ouellet, Marchenko, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Cholowski? They're just not that good at hockey. Svechnikov has trouble staying healthy and has probably gotten a bad rep that hurts him because of it.

AA is AA.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Jurco is the only guy on that list that I would wholly put the blame on the Wings coaching staff. They actually dicked around with his ice time, with what they asked of him, the whole nine yards. Tomas Jurco was done very dirty by Babcock and Blashill.

Everyone else on that list who isn't Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, and Larkin (all of whom I don't understand why they are on it) were let go from the Wings due to their own failings. Mrazek was and still is wildly inconsistent. Ouellet, Marchenko, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Cholowski? They're just not that good at hockey. Svechnikov has trouble staying healthy and has probably gotten a bad rep that hurts him because of it.

AA is AA.

Jurco was really done in by his back injury. It was a big set back and jarred important development time. He had a little more speed and jam before it in my opinion. He also seems to have lost all confidence in the NHL. He did have chances, but I just think he never got 100% back. It happens to guys.

 

[jaster]

Your IQ take, like Jaster's, has no factual basis.'
You can get away with it because there's no way to prove it disprove it.

Suffice it to say, you don't become one of the more productive players in the NHL with low IQ.
Nothing about AA's game says low IQ.
He doesn't have elite hockey sense. But the kid can make plays. He sees the plays developing.
Does he force plays sometimes? Yes. AA plays best when he plays like the go-to guy. When he's trying to defer (like he did on the line McDavid or Drai, or like he sometimes does with Carter0), he makes passes he shouldn't.
When he takes the puck and drives, he's one of the best transition forwards in the NHL.

Nobody's pretending a superstar.
What he is is a quality middle six forward on any NHL team and better than virtually any of our wingers at the moment,

Hockey reference career numbers? Point shares? I've honestly never seen anyone make these arguments before, so I don't know man.

Even with last year's shitty season, AA ranks in the top 40 NHL in goals/60 over the last three seasons.

Intangibles like hockey IQ, by their very definition, are subjective, yes. It's a reality that applies to every take on this. However, only one person in this discussion has demonstrated an extreme bias bordering on obsession regarding this player over the years.

One of the more productive players in the NHL? Wtf? Ahhhh, over the last 3 seasons. A convenient, selective sample, given that the first year in that data set includes his 30-goal season. Meanwhile, he has 17 goals in 73 games since. LOL. Stop abusing statistics. He's not top-40 in anything meaningful except for maybe speed, or puck-handling at high speed (or low IQ). Let's just officially bookmark this part of your argument as a great example of how ridiculous you get when advocating for AA.

He has a low hockey IQ because he anticipates poorly. He "forces plays sometimes" is just another way of saying low IQ. It can be seen on both sides of the puck. His time in Detroit included almost nightly examples of poor anticipation, all over the ice. Whether it was running around the D zone putting himself consistently out of position, or cherry-picking in the neutral zone which half the time left his team essentially playing short-handed, or forcing plays in the O zone and failing to find his linemates, the guy's hockey IQ could never catch up to the speed of his feet and hands.

Lucky for him, that speed created extra time and space for him to execute plays with teammates. It lowers the threshold for necessary hockey IQ. If he didn't have that speed, he wouldn't even be in the NHL. His offense would plummet, and without any other valuable facet to his game, he'd have no place on an NHL roster. Meanwhile, if he had even average hockey IQ, coupled with his offensive talents, he'd probably be close to a point-per-game player. AA is nothing if not a unique specimen of an NHL player. The guy's attributes span a far wider quality spectrum than most offensive players.

Ok, the above no doubt is going to upset you. Luckily, I still have some tissues leftover from that Costco pallet. I am willing to share.

I'm gonna keep posting AA's goals in this Around the NHL thread.
I won't start arguments about his value as a player. But I'll engage if others do.

Ah, so you're just trolling

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jurco was really done in by his back injury. It was a big set back and jarred important development time. He had a little more speed and jam before it in my opinion. He also seems to have lost all confidence in the NHL. He did have chances, but I just think he never got 100% back. It happens to guys.

I did want to be fair though. Jurco could have very real complaints about coaching that aren't cherry picking. He was the good soldier and did everything they asked of him even though it was against the type of player he was. Jurco definitely could have used someone in the front office in his corner. He was one of the guys who the Wings didn't "over-ripen" and was an example of a guy who it may actually have helped if he was.

And yeah, wasn't that basically what deep-sixed Grigorenko's career too? That he was a big mucky muck over in Russian in 2001, but then had his massive car wreck and didn't come to America until 2007 and by that time was an out-of-shape shadow of what he once was?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I did want to be fair though. Jurco could have very real complaints about coaching that aren't cherry picking. He was the good soldier and did everything they asked of him even though it was against the type of player he was. Jurco definitely could have used someone in the front office in his corner. He was one of the guys who the Wings didn't "over-ripen" and was an example of a guy who it may actually have helped if he was.

And yeah, wasn't that basically what deep-sixed Grigorenko's career too? That he was a big mucky muck over in Russian in 2001, but then had his massive car wreck and didn't come to America until 2007 and by that time was an out-of-shape shadow of what he once was?

Yeah his skating just was never the same. Still was a really good player in Russia. He pulled the plug quickly in Grand Rapids. However he had a long career. Jimmy D and Holland always talk about how good Koslov was before his car accident too. I think Jimmy D always says he was the best 15 year old he has ever seen and then said and I saw Wayne Gretzky or so the legend goes. Amazing really that Koslov and Grigorenko had the careers they did after those injuries.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Karlsson wants Sharks to avoid rebuild, 'did not sign here' for that

EK seems like a nice guy, but he's so far out in left field and/or a bad liar.

Signs max 8yr, $11.5M deal, C.H. 14.47% & then 1.5 seasons into new contract:
"I'm not here for a rebuild". LOL.

What did you think would happen Erik? You knew the SJ cap situation & roster before the deal.

Doug Wilson assembled a solid team, but that will be an albatross one day. It already cost Nyquist, Donskoi etc. They're in low-end mediocrity for the forseeable future & beyond. Glad SY didn't try to acquire, then sign him.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Nick Jensen with a wicked wrister in Washington, tonight.



Second goal since leaving Detroit. Good on him.

 

[TheMule93]

Literally every time McDavid steps onto the ice he generates as many high danger scoring chances as we generate all game

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Former Wings' prospect Dan Renouf with 2 assists in Colorado's 4-1 win over the Kings

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Former Wings' prospect Dan Renouf with 2 assists in Colorado's 4-1 win over the Kings

We're not missing anything, he's almost 27, career minor leaguer for a reason.
Robbie Russo, Danny Groulx etc. Don MacLean once scored 50G in the A, but couldn't cut it in the N, he was too slow iirc. No sleep lost.

 

[MBH]

Renouf got in a fight the other night too.
Kings about to hit the skids with Quick out of the lineup

 

[MBH]

Karlsson wants Sharks to avoid rebuild, 'did not sign here' for that

EK seems like a nice guy, but he's so far out in left field and/or a bad liar.

Signs max 8yr, $11.5M deal, C.H. 14.47% & then 1.5 seasons into new contract:
"I'm not here for a rebuild". LOL.

What did you think would happen Erik? You knew the SJ cap situation & roster before the deal.

Doug Wilson assembled a solid team, but that will be an albatross one day. It already cost Nyquist, Donskoi etc. They're in low-end mediocrity for the forseeable future & beyond. Glad SY didn't try to acquire, then sign him.

I get the sense Karlsson thinks he's way better than he actually is.
I think it's pretty incredible that the Senators botched the Karlsson thing so badly and yet still did so well in those trades.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

RS on their first line