Around The NHL #13

But if he was as bad as Chelios now says why did Chelios at his age and stature not step up?

The "bystander effect" theorizes that individuals are less likely to offer help to a "victim" in the presence of other people that are not offering help either. Thing is, once one person finds the courage to help, everyone else does all of a sudden does too.
 
The "bystander effect" theorizes that individuals are less likely to offer help to a "victim" in the presence of other people that are not offering help either. Thing is, once one person finds the courage to help, everyone else does all of a sudden does too.
I agree in the general public but professional hockey players have been conditioned all of their lives to come to the defense of teammates. While I acknowledge that would be difficult for a young player to stand up to the coach I see zero reason Chelios couldn't. Or Shanahan? Speaking of that if Wing's Players believed it was that bad why did Shanahan court and hire Babcock?
 
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I agree in the general public but professional hockey players have been conditioned all of their lives to come to the defense of teammates.
They've also been conditioned to not question the coach and to do what he tells them to do. There's always punishment if they don't

Speaking of that if Wing's Players believed it was that bad why did Shanahan court and hire Babcock?
He wouldn't have hired Babcock if there had been as much of a public stink about his antics back then, like there is now. Anything to win, just as long as it doesn't come with bad press. He looked the other way because it didn't affect him personally and no one had the courage to make a big enough stink about it back then, now it's turning into a "me too" kind of thing with people willing to speak up. (Babcock did have a .649 record over ten seasons with Detroit.)

Rumors of Babcock being a dick have been around for a looooooong time, yet he still finds a job. (That alone gives me the impression that upper management knows what's going on and doesn't care, if I were a player.)

We gave Mitchell Miller the boot due to bad publicity and then Boston plays stupid and picks him up, until the bad publicity hits.

Daryl Sutter kept getting a job until the players found the courage to speak up, and it hit the media.

Professional sports teams sure seem willing to overlook things as long as there's no bad publicity to go with it. Once there is, it's phony apologies and backtracking to the press. Hell, John Tortorella is supposedly a jerk too, but he's got no bad press attached to him.

While I acknowledge that would be difficult for a young player to stand up to the coach I see zero reason Chelios couldn't. Or Shanahan?
Watching Babcock go out of his way to make life hard for the players he doesn't like might have made Chelios think twice about getting on his bad side. Probably wasn't sure who's side upper management would take either. Even a high paid veteran NHL player doesn't want going to work being something they dread. Maybe, since it wasn't directed at him, he chose to overlook it too.

20 players not in the Babcock doghouse are just happy they're winning with Babcock and probably aren't going to be motivated to speak up for the few being abused, like Kindl.

These are all just ideas of course.
 
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They've also been conditioned to not question the coach and to do what he tells them to do. There's always punishment if they don't


He wouldn't have hired Babcock if there had been as much of a public stink about his antics back then, like there is now. Anything to win, just as long as it doesn't come with bad press. He looked the other way because it didn't affect him personally and no one had the courage to make a big enough stink about it back then, now it's turning into a "me too" kind of thing with people willing to speak up. (Babcock did have a .649 record over ten seasons with Detroit.)

Rumors of Babcock being a dick have been around for a looooooong time, yet he still finds a job. (That alone gives me the impression that upper management knows what's going on and doesn't care, if I were a player.)

We gave Mitchell Miller the boot due to bad publicity and then Boston plays stupid and picks him up, until the bad publicity hits.

Daryl Sutter kept getting a job until the players found the courage to speak up, and it hit the media.

Professional sports teams sure seem willing to overlook things as long as there's no bad publicity to go with it. Once there is, it's phony apologies and backtracking to the press. Hell, John Tortorella is supposedly a jerk too, but he's got no bad press attached to him.


Watching Babcock go out of his way to make life hard for the players he doesn't like might have made Chelios think twice about getting on his bad side. Probably wasn't sure who's side upper management would take either. Even a high paid veteran NHL player doesn't want going to work being something they dread. Maybe, since it wasn't directed at him, he chose to overlook it too.

20 players not in the Babcock doghouse are just happy they're winning with Babcock and probably aren't going to be motivated to speak up for the few being abused, like Kindl.

These are all just ideas of course.
I think you’re pretty much right on the money my friend. This has been established and conditioned hockey culture for decades and it is just now slowly changing. It’s amazing how the dangling carrot of winning a game, a championship, a GM of the Year award, whatever personal or team accolade…can make people abandon what they know is right and look the other way for fear of rocking the boat. It’s a separate convo maybe but you see this same thing in the military and other things with a hierarchy like that. Atrocities are committed and bad things are overlooked by people that tell themselves they’re “following orders.” Fear and Love are the two most powerful motivators. Gotta try as much as possible to take love guided action rather than fear guided action. Human behavior is interesting haha.

As for Chelios, he was already on the verge of being traded. Babs wanted him gone and he and his family wanted to stay. I still don’t think that excuses it but that’s where his mindset was I think. Guys like Franzen and Kindl were probably getting support from the other guys too in the form of “hey he’s a prick, f_ck him and just ignore it.” With Tortorella he has a little bit of that element too, but by all accounts I’ve heard players genuinely know he cares and wants the best for them. He’s a jerk sometimes but players know he means well.
 
I think you’re pretty much right on the money my friend. This has been established and conditioned hockey culture for decades and it is just now slowly changing. It’s amazing how the dangling carrot of winning a game, a championship, a GM of the Year award, whatever personal or team accolade…can make people abandon what they know is right and look the other way for fear of rocking the boat. It’s a separate convo maybe but you see this same thing in the military and other things with a hierarchy like that. Atrocities are committed and bad things are overlooked by people that tell themselves they’re “following orders.” Fear and Love are the two most powerful motivators. Gotta try as much as possible to take love guided action rather than fear guided action. Human behavior is interesting haha.

As for Chelios, he was already on the verge of being traded. Babs wanted him gone and he and his family wanted to stay. I still don’t think that excuses it but that’s where his mindset was I think. Guys like Franzen and Kindl were probably getting support from the other guys too in the form of “hey he’s a prick, f_ck him and just ignore it.” With Tortorella he has a little bit of that element too, but by all accounts I’ve heard players genuinely know he cares and wants the best for them. He’s a jerk sometimes but players know he means well.

Varsity Blues was on last night, so I watched it again. Fitting. Coach Bud Kilmer in the movie and Mike Babcock seem similar.
 
Varsity Blues was on last night, so I watched it again. Fitting. Coach Bud Kilmer in the movie and Mike Babcock seem similar.
NFL players typically state that’s their favorite football movie when asked, percentage wise. They’ve all lived it, or seen it and yes, many have seen it first hand, on their team. No one wants to upset the apple cart of victory, hence the silence.
What we’re witnessing today is a recent shift and changing of the times, in its rate of occurrence. Will there come a day when this is no longer an issue? IDK, I’m fairly certain there must have been coaches exposed in years prior to the Bobby Knight’s and Frank Kush’s of the world.
 
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I'm digging the retro kit. Some might frown at the leather-look pants, but works for me. Better yet, make them play in real leather pants and real wool sweaters.

 
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