I'm not sure Winnipeg fans should be throwing stones. Jets 1.0 had poor attendance when they left. Jets 2.0 has poor attendance despite having a lot more to cheer for than Coyotes fans.
Around the NHL 11 - 2023/24
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Buffdog
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An expansion team down the road?
A new team rising from the ashes of the old team?
The Phoenix Phoenixes
- Jun 8, 2011
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We can't ever lose the Jets, because I feel like we magically hit the one tiny window where we could actually afford to purchase a team.
Posted average attendance means nothing. Before they moved Thrashers averaged 14k. I went to one of those 14k attendance games.
https://www.statefarmarena.com/assets/img/general_map-5d9493c4d2.jpg
200 level was closed off with everyone getting moved to the 100 level. I sat in section 102 with 2 other Canadians and the total number of people physically in seats totalled 5. That was for sections 101-104 combined. The had the balls to announce the "attendance" over the speakers during the second intermission.
Skidooboy
Registered User
LOL ummm wrong, but OK.
at worst, after 10 years + of Capacity plus sellouts ..we sat 85% of the seats... when the Bomber games were on and the weather was ucharactisicaly warm in the fall.....
and guess what...here we are with awesome attendance almost every game since Xmas...
Jets bring in 42 million more revenue in a market of less than 1 million then AZ in a market of almost 5 million...and one of the richest markets per capita in America
Skidooboy
Registered User
it wasn't money....
we hit the one tiny window where the NHL BOG would allow another team in Canada....
Chipman was working on the thing in 96 and was told No way no matter what money, Arena deal or not. 100% NO NO NO .
he kept on it stayed in touch worked a plan and when the League had three teams going down the drain? They Had to save them, and we were the only option for the thrashers...
Skidooboy
Registered User
so I don't drive 2 1/2 hours in the winter to go to Jets games?
And somehow my friend in Richmond hill doesn't drive 55+ minutes to get to Leafs games?
in the winter?
Just like to pipe in, this thread (at least in my mind) is to discuss what is happening around the league and there is really no need for people to do the "Winnipeg Jets reality checks and comparisons". There are PLENTY of other threads to discuss Winnipeg's attendance problems or line up issues etc etc. I like posting in here specfically NOT to talk about the Jets very much.
Like if someone wants to discuss the attendance issues in Arizona, there is really no need to counter with 'yeah but it sucks in Winnipeg, we shouldn't say anything'. Just my opinion.
Like if someone wants to discuss the attendance issues in Arizona, there is really no need to counter with 'yeah but it sucks in Winnipeg, we shouldn't say anything'. Just my opinion.
You still do not get it.
It's not about you or your buddy
It's about the vast majority of fans in the metro Phoenix area being 20 miles or more from the rink, along the most congested dangerous traffic corridor in the US.
You get off work after 5 you have no shot at getting to the game on time.
Have you been to Phoenix? I practically lived there I was there so much for work.
It's not the only problem but it's a major driver of attendance challenges, and even so, the Coyotes drew pretty well.
You put the rink in Phoenix, Glendale adjacent and you open games up to hundreds of thousands more people.
Skidooboy
Registered User
except they make the drive for baseball, and football.... suddenly it's no big issue....they drive out to Diamond arena or whatever... for concerts and truck pulls...but not hockey....Arena football, but not hockey.... pro rodeo? but not hockey.....
they won't watch the games on TV...they don't buy Merch, they don't buy tickets....
this is absurd.
that majority of the Habs fans and Leafs fans a come in from the suburbs. across winter roads.... that's where the people who can afford tickets live....
shit I know fans from TO who can't get tickets and go to Buffalo and Detroit to see the leafs....
you ever been stuck in Montreal Traffic after a habs game?
you can keep repeating the same old tired song and somehow excuse 30+ years of failure to make money at every single level of pro hockey in the Valley....and blame it all on Glendale... or accept the market WILL NOT support a team.
bustamente
Fraud Supporter
Bottom line they have had 30 years to make it work and for various reason it just hasn't and for the good of the league and revenue it might be time to move on. The NHL needs to continue to thrive and grow and sometime in the future both Atlanta and Phoenix and who ever else has expansion money with an arena in the right place can get an expansion team. Hopefully the world develops the talent to supply all these teams cause less and less kids are playing the sport, well at least in Canada
tbcwpg
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- Jan 25, 2011
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Huffer
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I think what you're saying here is right, but I think Jungles is right too.
I think someone was able to make a business decision that made sense to purchase the Jets for 170 million (110 price plus a 60 relocation fee). But I don't see a scenario where say we didn't magically get the team back or if the worst happened and we lost it getting one back with purchase prices going to a billion, and expansion fees not much less.
I just don't see someone making that business decision at those prices.
Football is 8 games a year on a Sunday. The baseball stadium is right downtown - you can walk over after work (just like CLC here).
It's a 45+ minute drive from downtown or Scottsdale to the Glendale Arena on an average weeknight x 41 games a year. Glendale's on the opposite side of town from what would be the main hockey demo.
And yeah, Phoenix isn't going to have the same per capita hockey market strength as a Canadian city. So there's less margin of error for things like inconvenient arena location, gong show ownership drama, and an uncompetitive on-ice product (the Yotes have missed the playoffs 16 times in the last 20 years).
But if you put the arena in the right spot and have decent ownership and a competitive team they'll be as successful there as anywhere else in the southern US.
Section 325
Registered User
I've been to a game in Glendale. Great arena, one of the best in league, but it was really, reeeally far out. Ottawa has the same problem going on right now. Florida too.
When things are going good, it's easier to get people to justify such a commitment of their time and money. When things aren't, it isn't.
I think Phoenix is a way better hockey market than people give it credit for, given how bad the team has largely been. There hasn't really been a time where they've had all three of these things at once, even briefly...
1) A decent team
2) A proper arena
3) No off-ice drama
People here are quick to point out that Jets 1.0 final season had a dip in attendance because people were upset that the team was leaving. Coyotes fans have needed to live through that same experience EVERY SEASON since 2008 and possibility even before that...
When things are going good, it's easier to get people to justify such a commitment of their time and money. When things aren't, it isn't.
I think Phoenix is a way better hockey market than people give it credit for, given how bad the team has largely been. There hasn't really been a time where they've had all three of these things at once, even briefly...
1) A decent team
2) A proper arena
3) No off-ice drama
People here are quick to point out that Jets 1.0 final season had a dip in attendance because people were upset that the team was leaving. Coyotes fans have needed to live through that same experience EVERY SEASON since 2008 and possibility even before that...
Section 325
Registered User
Also I'm hearing rumours that the Coyotes were not paying hotels on the road THIS SEASON and were required to pay at NHL sponsored hotels with a certified check before they were allowed to check in...
Jeez.
Imagine working at the league office and thinking that the Coyotes owner was going to self-finance a $3 billion dollar arena district project only to receive a collections phone call from the Holiday Inn Raleigh-Durham...
Jeez.
Imagine working at the league office and thinking that the Coyotes owner was going to self-finance a $3 billion dollar arena district project only to receive a collections phone call from the Holiday Inn Raleigh-Durham...
Skidooboy
Registered User
YAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN
citation required.
Because they have folded teams in more than 5 leagues in a MULTIPLE locations going back to the WHA in Phoenix, ....
No local owner was even interested in buying for the last 25 years, Nobody wants to step up and build, buy, or otherwise support this team at an ownership level. No TV views, no merch sales, no corp support, year after year, league after league, decade over decade...
After decades of pounding a square peg into a round hole...don't people get tired of making excuses and saying "Yeah but if" over and over and over again? Face it the valley has no interest in the sport. a few fans but no real market.
tbcwpg
Moderator
- Jan 25, 2011
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You want a citation about football being on Sundays or the DBacks stadium being right in downtown Phoenix? I can link the NFL schedule and a Google maps pin if you like.
The fact is that other non traditional markets have worked and some haven't, and the common denominator between the ones that haven't have been poor ownership.
bustamente
Fraud Supporter
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
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And an arena in Scottsdale that the mayor said he didn't want there....Also I'm hearing rumours that the Coyotes were not paying hotels on the road THIS SEASON and were required to pay at NHL sponsored hotels with a certified check before they were allowed to check in...
Jeez.
Imagine working at the league office and thinking that the Coyotes owner was going to self-finance a $3 billion dollar arena district project only to receive a collections phone call from the Holiday Inn Raleigh-Durham...
Last edited:
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
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The West Valley probably has over a million people, Glendale is roughly the same population as Scottsdale where all the supposed NHL fans in the Phoneix metro supposedly live. Maybe the Coyotes ownership should have culitvared more fans from the west side. It was always one excuse after another with the Coyotes, wrong location, lousy team, too hot, too cold, Gretzky screwed us bottom line, no one cared!
cbcwpg
Registered User
Skidooboy
Registered User
it's so laughable.
According to google maps...
Downtown Phoenix to the proposed arena site? 31 minutes or 49 if you take the long way.
Downtown Scottsdale to the Site? 30-35 mins.
Scottsdale to Diamond arena? 53 mins.
Downtown Phoenix to Diamond arena? 37 min.
the driving distance is the f***ing same... and here they are talking about the location!
it's the same distance LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
tbcwpg
Moderator
- Jan 25, 2011
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The mayor would've had no say over the proposed site because it was outside the Scottsdale city limits and not using any utility connections to Scottsdale.
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