Around the NHL 11 - 2023/24
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Jazz, not Grizzlies. Grizzlies were in Vancouver (attended a game on my honeymoon) and they moved to Memphis. The Jazz on the other hand were formerly in New Orleans, where I got to see them play as a teenager. Of course New Orleans is now home to the Pelicans.
Grizzlies is a silly name for the team in Memphis, because they are outside even the historical distribution of Grizzly bears. It would have been much cooler if they'd gone with the state animal for Tennessee - the raccoon. To be fair, I expect they were avoiding the contraction of that nickname and the Grizzly logo is pretty cool.
Jazz is a somewhat silly name for a team playing in Salt Lake City, but a brilliant name for the team when it was in New Orleans. The state animal for Utah is the Elk but that would be a silly name for a sports franchise (cough*Edmonton*cough). Interestingly they do have a state crustacean (brine shrimp), a state fish (Bonneville cutthroat trout - but it ain't no coelocanth) and the state bird is the California seagull
Pelicans fits the current iteration of New Orleans IMO for a team name. The state animal for Louisiana is the black bear. Make of that what you will.
Also I feel bad for the fans in Arizona that have endured all the shenanigans.
Stumbledore
Registered User
With all due respect Buggs, when I sat in the Delta Center about 30 years ago, I watched a hockey game and the team called themselves the Grizzlies.Jazz, not Grizzlies. Grizzlies were in Vancouver (attended a game on my honeymoon) and they moved to Memphis. The Jazz on the other hand were formerly in New Orleans, where I got to see them play as a teenager. Of course New Orleans is now home to the Pelicans.
Grizzlies is a silly name for the team in Memphis, because they are outside even the historical distribution of Grizzly bears. It would have been much cooler if they'd gone with the state animal for Tennessee - the raccoon. To be fair, I expect they were avoiding the contraction of that nickname and the Grizzly logo is pretty cool.
Jazz is a somewhat silly name for a team playing in Salt Lake City, but a brilliant name for the team when it was in New Orleans. The state animal for Utah is the Elk but that would be a silly name for a sports franchise (cough*Edmonton*cough). Interestingly they do have a state crustacean (brine shrimp), a state fish (Bonneville cutthroat trout - but it ain't no coelocanth) and the state bird is the California seagull
Pelicans fits the current iteration of New Orleans IMO for a team name. The state animal for Louisiana is the black bear. Make of that what you will.
Also I feel bad for the fans in Arizona that have endured all the shenanigans.
The Utah Grizzlies were a Minor Professional hockey team
based in Salt Lake City, UT playing in the International Hockey
League from 1995 to 2001. The team played in the Delta
Center, among others.
Mea culpa. I was thinking basketball, pure and simple. Alas, egg on my face. Won't be the last time.
cbcwpg
Registered User
I don't think Phoenix has to worry about being the front runner for an expansion team, because the NHL will guarantee that as part as this sale / transfer. Bettman just won't give up the ghost.
Sorry to be the one to state IMO the obvious, but if they had the fan support from day 1 , then maybe this wouldn't have been an ongoing mess for 30 years.
There was nothing wrong with the arena they had in Glendale, it was fine for hockey, it's just that they couldn't get enough people to fill it at the prices required to make money, plus the other revenues required.Even with a new building in whatever billion-dollar entertainment complex they build, without having all the access to all the revenue stream AND the fan support, it will just die again.
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
- 33,196
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not hockey but sports and killing, OJ dead!
Skidooboy
Registered User
I laugh at the excuses for why Glendale failed....I don't think Phoenix has to worry about being the front runner for an expansion team, because the NHL will guarantee that as part as this sale / transfer. Bettman just won't give up the ghost.
Sorry to be the one to state IMO the obvious, but if they had the fan support from day 1 , then maybe this wouldn't have been an ongoing mess for 30 years.
Even with a new building in whatever billion-dollar entertainment complex they build, without having all the access to all the revenue stream AND the fan support, it will just die again.
"it's to far to drive"
Like the fans in Toronto or Chicago, Detroit or any of the Northern teams who drive just as far in -20C snowy pothole filled roads have it easier than AZ folks on breezy warm freeways . XD XD
That wasn't the problem.I don't think Phoenix has to worry about being the front runner for an expansion team, because the NHL will guarantee that as part as this sale / transfer. Bettman just won't give up the ghost.
Sorry to be the one to state IMO the obvious, but if they had the fan support from day 1 , then maybe this wouldn't have been an ongoing mess for 30 years.
Even with a new building in whatever billion-dollar entertainment complex they build, without having all the access to all the revenue stream AND the fan support, it will just die again.
The Coyotes fan base is in Phoenix/ Scottsdale and idk how much experience you have with the Phoenix metro but getting to the rink for those fans was terrible, especially having to fight traffic.
The proposed location for the new arena is perfect - exactly where it should be.
It's the same think here when it comes to the Rays. Terrible location for the park (and it's a dingy cavern). Despite having great teams they can't draw flies because most of metro Tampa would have to drive 30+ miles through really bad traffic to get there.
They are doing significant improvements to I275 that will help, but it's still a haul to get to the park.
Don't get me wrong I HATE the whole Coyotes franchise and I've wanted them gone forever. The nhl has over reached mightily on this.
Skidooboy
Registered User
Jazz, not Grizzlies. Grizzlies were in Vancouver (attended a game on my honeymoon) and they moved to Memphis. The Jazz on the other hand were formerly in New Orleans, where I got to see them play as a teenager. Of course New Orleans is now home to the Pelicans.
Grizzlies is a silly name for the team in Memphis, because they are outside even the historical distribution of Grizzly bears. It would have been much cooler if they'd gone with the state animal for Tennessee - the raccoon. To be fair, I expect they were avoiding the contraction of that nickname and the Grizzly logo is pretty cool.
Jazz is a somewhat silly name for a team playing in Salt Lake City, but a brilliant name for the team when it was in New Orleans. The state animal for Utah is the Elk but that would be a silly name for a sports franchise (cough*Edmonton*cough). Interestingly they do have a state crustacean (brine shrimp), a state fish (Bonneville cutthroat trout - but it ain't no coelocanth) and the state bird is the California seagull
Pelicans fits the current iteration of New Orleans IMO for a team name. The state animal for Louisiana is the black bear. Make of that what you will.
Also I feel bad for the fans in Arizona that have endured all the shenanigans.
Penguins is a silly name for a team not in Antarctica, but we go with it.
The Mighty Ducks of Anaheim say hello...
tbcwpg
Moderator
- Jan 25, 2011
- 16,901
- 20,868
I don't think Phoenix has to worry about being the front runner for an expansion team, because the NHL will guarantee that as part as this sale / transfer. Bettman just won't give up the ghost.
Sorry to be the one to state IMO the obvious, but if they had the fan support from day 1 , then maybe this wouldn't have been an ongoing mess for 30 years.
Even with a new building in whatever billion-dollar entertainment complex they build, without having all the access to all the revenue stream AND the fan support, it will just die again.
The ownership situation is more to blame than the fans. Saying "the fans just didn't come out" is a vast oversimplification. They've had some very bad ownership situations.
Stumbledore
Registered User
If location was the issue and traffic prevented the team from acquiring fans, what's the excuse for the fact that nobody wanted to watch the team on TV either?
Coyotes viewership peaked in 2011 and then dropped every season after that. Even when they made the playoffs, they drew less viewers in the Valley of the Sun than tractor pulls. And two of those tractor episodes were repeats.
Skidooboy
Registered User
BS what have we won in the NHL? EVER? this "winning fixes everything" is BS... they have won stuff. 9x in the playoffs and a trip to the conference finals..
the failure of the market is immense...
no tv views, no attendance, no merch sales, no local ownership since Moyes sold, no corporate support....
A market is a market...and in AZ after having failed at every level of Pro hockey, with a top ranked NCAA program that can't even sell out a 5K arena....let alone the empty seats at an NHL team playing in the same 5K arena...is a failed market. WHA WCHL ECHL list goes on.
bustamente
Fraud Supporter
I think the timeline has a lot to do with the Coyotes may be leaving town, they say even if he wins the auction they won't start building for another year, so it might be ready '27 '28 season maybe. That's a possible 4 more years in a less than standard NHL arena. Players may like playing in Arizona because they can wear flip flops and shorts to the arena but those days look like they are coming to an end. At the beginning of their broadcast last night host Walsh looked resigned to the possibility that the team was indeed going
If they build that new arena near Scottsdale, the NHL will return with an expansion team.I don't think Phoenix has to worry about being the front runner for an expansion team, because the NHL will guarantee that as part as this sale / transfer. Bettman just won't give up the ghost.
Sorry to be the one to state IMO the obvious, but if they had the fan support from day 1 , then maybe this wouldn't have been an ongoing mess for 30 years.
Even with a new building in whatever billion-dollar entertainment complex they build, without having all the access to all the revenue stream AND the fan support, it will just die again.
The team did okay in downtown Phoenix at the old America West Arena...but it wasn't built for hockey and had bad seating/sightlines.
Then the move to Glendale kind of coincided with the team's on-ice performance going down the tubes. Off-ice things weren't going much better with a succession of cash-poor or uninterested owners and all that drama. And it's been kind of 20 straight years of the team sucking and off-ice drama.
Also, that arena location in Glendale was quite distant from where the money is in the Valley (edit: the red is lower income, the green higher income areas):
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bustamente
Fraud Supporter
bustamente
Fraud Supporter
tbcwpg
Moderator
- Jan 25, 2011
- 16,901
- 20,868
I didn't say anything about winning. It's about ownership putting effort into marketing the team. There are sunbelt teams that have worked very well because the owners put some effort into it. Plus they've been unlucky with arena deals too.
Skidooboy
Registered User
riiiight……
so what about the fans in TO or LA or any of another dozen teams that drive from the suburbs and outskirts to get to games?
what about markets like Winnipeg and Edmonton where people literally drive hours, of -30c in snowstorms to go to games?
people talk like only fans in Phoenix have to commute to a game….
in reality it’s one of the easiest drives in hockey. balmy az freeways vs Montreal winter gridlock?
get over it.
there is no serious appetite for hockey in that valley.
30+ years of failure at every level of pro hockey no matter where when.
Grand Forks with a population of 58,000 puts 11K a game into their NCAA barn…. ASU can’t fill 5000.
there is no hockey market in the valley. fans yes… a market? no.
Average attendance for the Yotes last pre-pandemic season in Glendale: 14,606
Average attendance in the strong Winnipeg hockey market where people drive hours in -30 blizzards to go to games to watch a team that's Top 10 in the standings and that's made the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 years: 13,401
There's obviously no serious appetite for hockey in Winnipeg, I guess.
Skidooboy
Registered User
yep….
where is our Owner from again? oh yeah Winnipeg… life long hockey fan, Jets 1.0 fan, local businessman who tried to save Jets 1.0, built an arena worked hard to get a team.
10+ years of capacity sell outs,
az owners? liars and conmen from everywhere BUT az…
our worst attendance was like 85% capacity. cheapest tickets $75 a game.
what were the ticket prices and revenues of those two teams? tv views? merch sales? corporate support?
you want to compare markets? let’s talk MONEY.
the Jets make money Pheonix loses it by the tens of millions.
i won’t even talk about the 11K posted attendance figures at games less than 3000 were actually at…
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
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