Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[nobody imp0rtant]

Looks like it's going to be the Team of Destiny vs the Team of... Dastardly?

 

[bustamente]

Unbelievably it looks like both conference finals might be sweeps.

 

[None]

I wonder what the odds are that Benn's still the captain next season.

 

[Teppo Numenor]

Hard to push back when your getting beat all over the ice

 

[tbcwpg]

 

[snowkiddin]

Pretty dumb of Benn to do that. At first I thought it was weak when watching live but I checked out the replay after the game and he was clearly trying to injure Stone. I guess when Pietrangelo got only one game earlier these playoffs for his bullshit the NHL opened the door for more of this crap to happen. Watch Mr. Potato Safety only fine him or something though

 

[Jets 31]

f*** Vegas steamrolling everyone on the way to the final.

And their 120 million dollar payroll, cheating bastards .

 

[snowkiddin]

And their 120 million dollar payroll, cheating bastards .

Looks like we might be heading towards an asterisk Cup winner for an unprecedented fourth straight season!

 

[GJF]

So... Let's say Vegas wins in 4. Let's now say Vegas wins the Cup at least let's say "confidently in 6" (honestly wouldn't shock me to see another 2-0 or 3-0 start for them against the Panthers either, I'm at least 90% confident Vegas will win the series).

Does this change anything about the Jets effort in Round 1? Losing to the apparently clear and deservingly Stanley Cup Champs of 2023 Playoffs?

I mean if you look at it from a bit of distance one could then totally argue

Round 1: Jets at least won Game 1 and were REALLY close to win Game 3 in OT. Pretty decent for a WC team vs the best team in the playoffs. If they get the toss up in Game 3 and then lead the series 2-1, everything can happen honestly.
Round 2: Oilers have McDrai and Ekholm. It was supposed to be their year and they only won 2 games.
Round 3: Well... 4-0. Stars current core must be devastated. (assuming it ends this way)
SCF: Beating the "team of destiny" with Tkachuk and Maurice to make them the ultimate villain. Job done, Vegas!


In hindsight, the Jets don't look that pathetic anymore at all, one could argue?

 

[ps241]

So... Let's say Vegas wins in 4. Let's now say Vegas wins the Cup at least let's say "confidently in 6" (honestly wouldn't shock me to see another 2-0 or 3-0 start for them against the Panthers either, I'm at least 90% confident Vegas will win the series).

Does this change anything about the Jets effort in Round 1? Losing to the apparently clear and deservingly Stanley Cup Champs of 2023 Playoffs?

I mean if you look at it from a bit of distance one could then totally argue

Round 1: Jets at least won Game 1 and were REALLY close to win Game 3 in OT. Pretty decent for a WC team vs the best team in the playoffs. If they get the toss up in Game 3 and then lead the series 2-1, everything can happen honestly.
Round 2: Oilers have McDrai and Ekholm. It was supposed to be their year and they only won 2 games.
Round 3: Well... 4-0. Stars current core must be devastated. (assuming it ends this way)
SCF: Beating the "team of destiny" with Tkachuk and Maurice to make them the ultimate villain. Job done, Vegas!


In hindsight, the Jets don't look that pathetic anymore at all, one could argue?

I maintain with as injured as they were, had the Jets gone down kicking, screaming, and bleeding in game 5 this market would have been the usual dissapointed at another failed season but most would have rationalized it. Quitting in game 5 then the players exit meetings chastising their coach lit the city on fire.

I hate Vegas but Cassidy has them playing annoyingly well.

 

[cbcwpg]

Moron - noun
: a foolish or stupid person

Example: See Dallas Stars captain Jamie Benn

**

Benn declined to speak to the media after the game, so it isn't exactly clear what he was thinking during the play. How about, he wasn't thinking.

 

[cbcwpg]

So... Let's say Vegas wins in 4. Let's now say Vegas wins the Cup at least let's say "confidently in 6" (honestly wouldn't shock me to see another 2-0 or 3-0 start for them against the Panthers either, I'm at least 90% confident Vegas will win the series).

Does this change anything about the Jets effort in Round 1? Losing to the apparently clear and deservingly Stanley Cup Champs of 2023 Playoffs?

I mean if you look at it from a bit of distance one could then totally argue

Round 1: Jets at least won Game 1 and were REALLY close to win Game 3 in OT. Pretty decent for a WC team vs the best team in the playoffs. If they get the toss up in Game 3 and then lead the series 2-1, everything can happen honestly.
Round 2: Oilers have McDrai and Ekholm. It was supposed to be their year and they only won 2 games.
Round 3: Well... 4-0. Stars current core must be devastated. (assuming it ends this way)
SCF: Beating the "team of destiny" with Tkachuk and Maurice to make them the ultimate villain. Job done, Vegas!


In hindsight, the Jets don't look that pathetic anymore at all, one could argue?

It's not losing that's the problem, it's how they lose the last game of the playoffs every single year... watching other teams fighting to stay in and fighting to win what is ultimately their last game, while the Jets always just outright quit, And then when the coach calls them out for it, which every fan agreed with because they should be called out, all we hear from the players is... "please don't pick on us "... so yeah, still pathetic.

 

[Cnile]

I maintain with as injured as they were, had the Jets gone down kicking, screaming, and bleeding in game 5 this market would have been the usual dissapointed at another failed season but most would have rationalized it. Quitting in game 5 then the players exit meetings chastising their coach lit the city on fire.

I hate Vegas but Cassidy has them playing annoyingly well.

Amazing how that happens when you got each other’s back.

 

[DRW204]

Adin Hill vs Bobrovsky.... Who would've thunk

 

[jungles]

So... Let's say Vegas wins in 4. Let's now say Vegas wins the Cup at least let's say "confidently in 6" (honestly wouldn't shock me to see another 2-0 or 3-0 start for them against the Panthers either, I'm at least 90% confident Vegas will win the series).

Does this change anything about the Jets effort in Round 1? Losing to the apparently clear and deservingly Stanley Cup Champs of 2023 Playoffs?

I mean if you look at it from a bit of distance one could then totally argue

Round 1: Jets at least won Game 1 and were REALLY close to win Game 3 in OT. Pretty decent for a WC team vs the best team in the playoffs. If they get the toss up in Game 3 and then lead the series 2-1, everything can happen honestly.
Round 2: Oilers have McDrai and Ekholm. It was supposed to be their year and they only won 2 games.
Round 3: Well... 4-0. Stars current core must be devastated. (assuming it ends this way)
SCF: Beating the "team of destiny" with Tkachuk and Maurice to make them the ultimate villain. Job done, Vegas!


In hindsight, the Jets don't look that pathetic anymore at all, one could argue?

I don't know. People said the same thing about the Blues series, and yet the Jets have been as mediocre as advertised ever since.

 

[bustamente]

F*** Vegas is man handling the Stars with Adin F N Hill, maybe that says more about the Stars.

 

[TommyKillian]

So... Let's say Vegas wins in 4. Let's now say Vegas wins the Cup at least let's say "confidently in 6" (honestly wouldn't shock me to see another 2-0 or 3-0 start for them against the Panthers either, I'm at least 90% confident Vegas will win the series).

Does this change anything about the Jets effort in Round 1? Losing to the apparently clear and deservingly Stanley Cup Champs of 2023 Playoffs?

I mean if you look at it from a bit of distance one could then totally argue

Round 1: Jets at least won Game 1 and were REALLY close to win Game 3 in OT. Pretty decent for a WC team vs the best team in the playoffs. If they get the toss up in Game 3 and then lead the series 2-1, everything can happen honestly.
Round 2: Oilers have McDrai and Ekholm. It was supposed to be their year and they only won 2 games.
Round 3: Well... 4-0. Stars current core must be devastated. (assuming it ends this way)
SCF: Beating the "team of destiny" with Tkachuk and Maurice to make them the ultimate villain. Job done, Vegas!


In hindsight, the Jets don't look that pathetic anymore at all, one could argue?

Agreed, you take out the injuries and who knows what happens. As @ps241 points out, that game 5 showing carries a ton of weight in the minds of fans. BUT, seeing Vegas steamroll other teams makes me want to see this core take one more swing at it.

I wonder if they can somehow convince PLD to sign for 2 years and Scheifele and Helley to sign for one more. It would be very unusual but maybe a happy medium to give them one more shot at this core while allowing those guys to still sign one final big contract.

Gah... that's dream world thinking! Realistically we are probably done with this core.

 

[buggs]

Agreed, you take out the injuries and who knows what happens. As @ps241 points out, that game 5 showing carries a ton of weight in the minds of fans. BUT, seeing Vegas steamroll other teams makes me want to see this core take one more swing at it.

I wonder if they can somehow convince PLD to sign for 2 years and Scheifele and Helley to sign for one more. It would be very unusual but maybe a happy medium to give them one more shot at this core while allowing those guys to still sign one final big contract.

Gah... that's dream world thinking! Realistically we are probably done with this core.

Respectfully, regarding this core: hell no.

They can't get it done and have shown it repeatedly since the last time they played against Vegas in the playoffs. They limp out of playoff series' consistently. A few players show up and play hard but they aren't necessarily the key guys. Couple that with the utter lack of accountability they displayed after Bones blew up and no thank you.

That's without addressing the absurdity of signing in the manner you suggest. I get you're talking about taking a swing or two with this core and the contracts you suggest would allow them to do so, but you're gutting the team for years once those two years are over as all of Helle, PLD and Scheif stroll happily into UFA status. Now that's not to suggest TNSE might do just as you suggest, but I think it would be foolish based on the play of the team. And it's not just disgruntled Jets fans saying that, look at the commentary from fans around the league and the media from all over the league - the Jets are broken and need to be fixed.

They stunk in the second half - lots of heat thrown at Hellebuyck for not performing in the playoffs. You know what might have helped? Not beating him like a dead horse in the stretch run by winning a few games in the preceding months that didn't put the team neck and neck with another team that was dumping players left, right and center (see: Nashville). No accountability from the players at that point.

The talent is there, I won't argue that. But the heart, compete, GAF, whatever you want to call it isn't with this team as a whole. They're weirdly arrogant, considering they haven't really accomplished much since the team had Byfuglien, Laine, Little and a few others on it. I don't think performing well from October to December then fading is really a model to emulate, but the players seem to have done it most seasons since our WCF appearance. Hell, they almost completed the most epic collapse in history in the standings for that time frame. Another win or three by either of Calgary/Nashville and the Jets would have earned a Nashville-quality banner.

As you and others have recognized they played well for the first four games of the series and I won't take that away from them. Injuries were real. But I will hold them accountable for game five, injuries or not and I'll also hold them accountable for the inexplicable collapse in the second half of the season. I'll also hold them accountable for their own lack of accountability following game 5. Their response was that of petulant children that were scolded. They were the architects of their own demise and refused to own it. (duly noting nobody in the entire Jets organization gives a hot damn what I think)

 

[cbcwpg]

^--- I was just going to say Nope.... but @buggs expressed this so much better.

 

[ERYX]

So... Let's say Vegas wins in 4. Let's now say Vegas wins the Cup at least let's say "confidently in 6" (honestly wouldn't shock me to see another 2-0 or 3-0 start for them against the Panthers either, I'm at least 90% confident Vegas will win the series).

Does this change anything about the Jets effort in Round 1? Losing to the apparently clear and deservingly Stanley Cup Champs of 2023 Playoffs?

I mean if you look at it from a bit of distance one could then totally argue

Round 1: Jets at least won Game 1 and were REALLY close to win Game 3 in OT. Pretty decent for a WC team vs the best team in the playoffs. If they get the toss up in Game 3 and then lead the series 2-1, everything can happen honestly.
Round 2: Oilers have McDrai and Ekholm. It was supposed to be their year and they only won 2 games.
Round 3: Well... 4-0. Stars current core must be devastated. (assuming it ends this way)
SCF: Beating the "team of destiny" with Tkachuk and Maurice to make them the ultimate villain. Job done, Vegas!


In hindsight, the Jets don't look that pathetic anymore at all, one could argue?

One could certainly argue that.

Personally I still think the Jets first round exit was still pathetic and fully deserving of Bones saying he was "disgusted" especially since they've been doing the same crap since February.

 

[DRW204]

I don't know. People said the same thing about the Blues series, and yet the Jets have been as mediocre as advertised ever since.

yeah to me it just reads as searching for moral victories, and trying to bring up excuses to bring back the same group. the "copium" phase for me was the 17-18 WCF L. this team hasn't really exuded or instilled confidence since then imo.

 

[snowkiddin]

F*** Vegas is man handling the Stars with Adin F N Hill, maybe that says more about the Stars.

I was reading their board and their subreddit last night. Fans are emotional (obviously and fairly) but they want Benn jettisoned and major changes made (including getting rid of DeBoer). Many are worried they’ll take a step back now and won’t contend until Seguin and Benn’s albatrosses are gone.

 

[sipowicz]

Some good posts guys ,had to hand out "likes" like free samples at Costco!

Dallas starting to look like the Jets...

 

[TommyKillian]

Respectfully, regarding this core: hell no.

They can't get it done and have shown it repeatedly since the last time they played against Vegas in the playoffs. They limp out of playoff series' consistently. A few players show up and play hard but they aren't necessarily the key guys. Couple that with the utter lack of accountability they displayed after Bones blew up and no thank you.

That's without addressing the absurdity of signing in the manner you suggest. I get you're talking about taking a swing or two with this core and the contracts you suggest would allow them to do so, but you're gutting the team for years once those two years are over as all of Helle, PLD and Scheif stroll happily into UFA status. Now that's not to suggest TNSE might do just as you suggest, but I think it would be foolish based on the play of the team. And it's not just disgruntled Jets fans saying that, look at the commentary from fans around the league and the media from all over the league - the Jets are broken and need to be fixed.

They stunk in the second half - lots of heat thrown at Hellebuyck for not performing in the playoffs. You know what might have helped? Not beating him like a dead horse in the stretch run by winning a few games in the preceding months that didn't put the team neck and neck with another team that was dumping players left, right and center (see: Nashville). No accountability from the players at that point.

The talent is there, I won't argue that. But the heart, compete, GAF, whatever you want to call it isn't with this team as a whole. They're weirdly arrogant, considering they haven't really accomplished much since the team had Byfuglien, Laine, Little and a few others on it. I don't think performing well from October to December then fading is really a model to emulate, but the players seem to have done it most seasons since our WCF appearance. Hell, they almost completed the most epic collapse in history in the standings for that time frame. Another win or three by either of Calgary/Nashville and the Jets would have earned a Nashville-quality banner.

As you and others have recognized they played well for the first four games of the series and I won't take that away from them. Injuries were real. But I will hold them accountable for game five, injuries or not and I'll also hold them accountable for the inexplicable collapse in the second half of the season. I'll also hold them accountable for their own lack of accountability following game 5. Their response was that of petulant children that were scolded. They were the architects of their own demise and refused to own it. (duly noting nobody in the entire Jets organization gives a hot damn what I think)

Haha fair enough, and I agree with everything you've said. Two points though:

1. My proposal (more of just a thought experiment because, as I note, it would be "very unusual") would be to take 1 more swing at it and trade everyone after next year. Not gutting the team. Basically kicking the can 1 year down the road. It stems from my concern that Chevy doesn't want to rebuild and will make some stupid moves to try to stay competitive while slowly downgrading the team. If you give the core one more shot, maybe he finally moves on to a proper rebuild.

2. Why would this be tempting? Despite the issues you've pointed out, I think AT BEST it will be another 7 to 10 years before we have a 1-2 center punch like PLD and Scheifs coupled with a perennial Vezina candidate goalie. Realistically, I think it will take much longer than that. The most frustrating thing about this group is, as you note, they have the talent but are so inconsistent.

I think we are in for years of pain and mediocrity whenever we sell these players off. As a fan, it would be glorious IF they could pull off a proper, consistent season next season with a playoff run that befits their talent. That's a humongous IF though, and I understand why people wouldn't want to explore it.

 

[cbcwpg]

Haha fair enough, and I agree with everything you've said. Two points though:

1. My proposal (more of just a thought experiment because, as I note, it would be "very unusual") would be to take 1 more swing at it and trade everyone after next year. Not gutting the team. Basically kicking the can 1 year down the road. It stems from my concern that Chevy doesn't want to rebuild and will make some stupid moves to try to stay competitive while slowly downgrading the team. If you give the core one more shot, maybe he finally moves on to a proper rebuild.

2. Why would this be tempting? Despite the issues you've pointed out, I think AT BEST it will be another 7 to 10 years before we have a 1-2 center punch like PLD and Scheifs coupled with a perennial Vezina candidate goalie. Realistically, I think it will take much longer than that. The most frustrating thing about this group is, as you note, they have the talent but are so inconsistent.

I think we are in for years of pain and mediocrity whenever we sell these players off. As a fan, it would be glorious IF they could pull off a proper, consistent season next season with a playoff run that befits their talent. That's a humongous IF though, and I understand why people wouldn't want to explore it.

But here is the thing. If the Jets were to keep everyone the same ( Other than PLD, everyone has at least 1 more year under contract, so kicking it down the road for 1 more year is easy ) to go for it, then you are going for it.

The issue is, the trade deadline happens before the playoffs, so if the plan is to "go for it", and you are in the playoffs, say you are 1st in the conference, you at that point can't trade anyone away or you will kill you chances of playoff success. So if you are in the playoffs and going for it , you will lose everyone you might want to trade, after the season, for nothing.

There is no "trade everyone after next year" because of timing, you have to trade them before next year is done, or get nothing for them. And if Chevy is happy with getting nothing for his assets, I have an issue with that.

Now if this team was giving out the vibes that they are actually good enough as is to win the Cup, maybe I would feel different, but IMO, as is, we are a wild-card team at best, and going nowhere in the playoffs.