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Around the League Thread part V

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Herby said:
No one is going to trade the Kings a better player on a cost controlled long-term contract for that trade offer. Vilardi is 23 at the start of next season and is likely viewed as an NHL/AHL tweener calculated gamble in the eyes of most of the leagues GM's, which isn't unfair, that is what he's been for the Kings this year. Turcotte is a 21 year old former top 5 pick with 8 games of NHL experience and three underwhelming seasons since being drafted and has had significant issues staying in the lineup. The Kings 1st round pick this year currently projects to be around 20th and the Kings have one of the easiest schedules in the NHL the rest of the way and would be adding JC and losing losing no one from their optimal NHL lineup, so the pick could get worse. Honestly in that potential scenario the most enticing trade chip would be Phoenix hoping that Kopitar really collapsed and Doughty got hurt or something and the Kings bottomed out in 2023 like the Sharks did when they lost the Stutzle pick. With the top of the board next year being so strong I would prefer that Blake top-5 protect any potential trade that involves the 2023 first.
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Okay.

But where the Kings are at right now, you don't make a blockbuster trade unless it's for a player that can grow with your team and be here for the better part of a decade.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
100%, this gave them room to make more moves to find the cap to sign Sergachev, and they can push Hagel off for 2 years after this before they make a decision on him, and by that time, that window might be closing...ish.... it's a helluva price to pay......but if it pans out, guys gonna look like a genius.
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...and even if it doesn't pan out you can't fault the guy for being creative to try to extend the Cup window when they're trying to threepeat.

Those are exactly the moments I want my GM to treat prospects/picks like burnable assets and not even human haha
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
...and even if it doesn't pan out you can't fault the guy for being creative to try to extend the Cup window when they're trying to threepeat.

Those are exactly the moments I want my GM to treat prospects/picks like burnable assets and not even human haha
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Exactly, this isn't the move you make when Point is 33, Kucherov is 34 etc....it fits in their window and we are talking about low low low picks....for a 23 year old on a 30 goal pace.....
 
johnjm22 said:
Okay.

But where the Kings are at right now, you don't make a blockbuster trade unless it's for a player that can grow with your team and be here for the better part of a decade.
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You make the trade with the intent to sign him to an extension long-term, and if for whatever reason that doesn't work out you can always trade him again at the deadline before his contract expires. He has a 10 team no-trade list which will likely be the 7 Canadian teams for tax reasons, Arizona, Carolina and whatever 2 other teams are in the dumps then. It's not like he automatically leaves for nothing if at the 2025 deadline the Kings decide they can't sign him.

Just saying, you aren't going to get a better player signed for 6-7 years for declining assets and late 1st round picks. There might not even be a player like that available and if there is those teams would be asking for QB, Clarke or Kaliyev.
 
Hefty price to pay for Hagel but if anyone can afford it, it’s the Bolts given the current position they are in and they recent success they have had.

I don’t think they are too concerned about the price they paid. Go for it while the window is open.
 
Herby said:
You make the trade with the intent to sign him to an extension long-term, and if for whatever reason that doesn't work out you can always trade him again at the deadline before his contract expires. He has a 10 team no-trade list which will likely be the 7 Canadian teams for tax reasons, Arizona, Carolina and whatever 2 other teams are in the dumps then. It's not like he automatically leaves for nothing if at the 2025 deadline the Kings decide they can't sign him.

Just saying, you aren't going to get a better player signed for 6-7 years for declining assets and late 1st round picks. There might not even be a player like that available and if there is those teams would be asking for QB, Clarke or Kaliyev.
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Then you put together a better package to get something better.

You have to be extremely selective when making these types of deals. You only have so many assets, so much cap space. You only get a couple of opportunities to make this kind of trade during each build. You misfire and it de-rails the whole thing. So I'm not interested in a player unless it's extremely ideal.
 
johnjm22 said:
Maybe we should be sellers.
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Really conflicted on this. Purely from a pragmatic standpoint, selling off some "spare parts" (e.g., AA, maybe Brown, perhaps a few of the prospects that are looking much less likely vs. 6 months ago to be here long-term anyway) for either draft-capital or a highly-regarded prospect (yeah, I know; they're overloaded with those right now - but you can always package the new ones later on for long-term help) is probably a smart play, given the market right now. Carrying this line of thought to its extreme: I wonder about the return Kopitar would fetch in a few days (of course, despite all the heat he's drawing over the past few months, you can basically kiss the playoffs this season - and probably next year - good-bye if he's moved for a picks/prospects package)?

But especially after efforts like last night, I don't like the principle of potentially disrupting this team. Even if they can get a 3rd and a decent prospect for AA - and I don't think that's a terribly unreasonable expectation, given the current market - is it "worth" it (noting there are at least two games this season - maybe four points being the difference between making the playoffs vs. not - they don't win without him. And I'm not a particular fan of his)? It almost feels like they should be buyers right now, even though that would almost certainly be the anthesis of sound long-term strategy. Tough sledding, decision-wise, over the next few days...
 
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johnjm22 said:
Then you put together a better package to get something better.

You have to be extremely selective when making these types of deals. You only have so many assets, so much cap space. You only get a couple of opportunities to make this kind of trade during each build. You misfire and it de-rails the whole thing. So I'm not interested in a player unless it's extremely ideal.
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You want to trade any of those 3 names listed? I am not for that but that is what teams will ask for if they move a player better than JC. JC is about as good a player at his age and with his cap hit that we will get for excess prospects and late 1st picks.

If this rebuild has a chance to work we need those guys to be the 1C, 1D and 1W. We aren’t getting anymore top 5 picks those are the guys we have made our bed with and will sink or swim with. There isn’t another 1C, 1D or 1W in the system that makes those guys tradable. Blake’s poor evaluation and/or development of other high picks means we don’t have any backup plan that makes moving any of those guys realistic.
 
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Rumpelstiltskin said:
Really conflicted on this. Purely from a pragmatic standpoint, selling off some "spare parts" (e.g., AA, maybe Brown, perhaps a few of the prospects that are looking much less likely vs. 6 months ago to be here long-term anyway) for either draft-capital or a highly-regarded prospect (yeah, I know; they're overloaded with those right now - but you can always package the new ones later on for long-term help) is probably a smart play, given the market right now. Carrying this line of thought to its extreme: I wonder about the return Kopitar would fetch in a few days (of course, despite all the heat he's drawing over the past few months, you can basically kiss the playoffs this season - and probably next year - good-bye if he's moved for a picks/prospects package)?

But especially after efforts like last night, I don't like the principle of potentially disrupting this team. Even if they can get a 3rd and a decent prospect for AA - and I don't think that's a terribly unreasonable expectation, given the current market - is it "worth" it (noting there are at least two games this season - maybe four points being the difference between making the playoffs vs. not - they don't win without him. And I'm not a particular fan of his)? It almost feels like they should be buyers right now, even though that would almost certainly be the anthesis of sound long-term strategy. Tough sledding, decision-wise, over the next few days...
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I do wonder sometimes what Kopitar with 50% retention would get in a trade right now. But I don't think there's any chance of LA moving him. Kopitar also has a M-NTC. I'm very curious what Giroux is going to get.

I don't think AA or Brown would return much.

I think it's only worth selling if you're getting a 1st round pick in return. If Olli f***en Maatta returns you a 1st. I think you gotta do it regardless of how depleted we are.

Edler might also hold a lot of value right now. He has a NMC.
 
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Herby said:
You want to trade any of those 3 names listed? I am not for that but that is what teams will ask for if they move a player better than JC. JC is about as good a player at his age and with his cap hit that we will get for excess prospects and late 1st picks.

If this rebuild has a chance to work we need those guys to be the 1C, 1D and 1W. We aren’t getting anymore top 5 picks those are the guys we have made our bed with and will sink or swim with. There isn’t another 1C, 1D or 1W in the system that makes those guys tradable. Blake’s poor evaluation and/or development of other high picks means we don’t have any backup plan that makes moving any of those guys possible.
plans
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I don't really want to trade any of those guys, but you never know what opportunity might come along.

Hypothetical, would you trade Clarke for Power? I'm assuming you see a lot of the latter.

Kings are jam packed on the right side, Buffalo is jam packed on the left.
 
Coleman cost a 1st round pick and Nolan Foote who was a former 1st round pick. Hagel cost the same, is signed for an extra year compared to Coleman, and they got rid of two tweener contract spots while still nabbing back two 4th round picks. I think it's a solid move by Brisebois in that context.

Also, I'm loving that we're getting trade deadline week this year rather than trade deadline day. :laugh:
 
Schrute farms beets said:
Is Hagel that good for what TB gave up for him? Maybe it's because i don't pay attention to Chicago the last few years since they suck. Just seems like a ton to give up for someone. Or maybe it's a strategic thing for TB in paying to get someone productive that comes with a low cap number to help them out the next couple years.
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There's a lot more than the wow factor of the 2 first. They're both lotto protected and most likely 28-30ish, and the two 4ths going back could be pretty good the way Tampa drafts. It's an overpayment for cap flexibility for sure, and they must feel pretty confident they can keep the team in place to traded high futures for that space. Not many teams can do that.
 
KingsHockey24 said:
I triggered Montreal's entire fanbase by calling Lehkonen a good 3rd line winger. :laugh:
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Bandit said:
He’d have the 6th most goals on the Kings. Of course we all know if he had played the entire year here he’d probably have 30% fewer goals to begin with.
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With the "Kings Tax" a guy who has never scored over 31 points actually dips into the negatives here
 
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Frolov 6'3 said:
Hughes disappointing ?

He is on pace for close to 40 goals and 90 points if he was healthy.

Will probably end up with 30 goals now.
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For a #1 OA, yeah he's been disappointing so far. Before this season he had 52 points in 117 games, those are Yakupov numbers. He's really turned it on this year though, glad he's putting it together. Hopefully we see the same thing from some of our guys who are taking their time.
 
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Rumpelstiltskin said:
Really conflicted on this. Purely from a pragmatic standpoint, selling off some "spare parts" (e.g., AA, maybe Brown, perhaps a few of the prospects that are looking much less likely vs. 6 months ago to be here long-term anyway) for either draft-capital or a highly-regarded prospect (yeah, I know; they're overloaded with those right now - but you can always package the new ones later on for long-term help) is probably a smart play, given the market right now. Carrying this line of thought to its extreme: I wonder about the return Kopitar would fetch in a few days (of course, despite all the heat he's drawing over the past few months, you can basically kiss the playoffs this season - and probably next year - good-bye if he's moved for a picks/prospects package)?

But especially after efforts like last night, I don't like the principle of potentially disrupting this team. Even if they can get a 3rd and a decent prospect for AA - and I don't think that's a terribly unreasonable expectation, given the current market - is it "worth" it (noting there are at least two games this season - maybe four points being the difference between making the playoffs vs. not - they don't win without him. And I'm not a particular fan of his)? It almost feels like they should be buyers right now, even though that would almost certainly be the anthesis of sound long-term strategy. Tough sledding, decision-wise, over the next few days...
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That's the pragmatic standpoint?
 
Just watched the Avs dance around the Sharks to go up 4-0...and then watched the Sharks have a nice battle back to 4-3 before looking completely lost with the last open net and Shorking, prolonging their misery.
 
Fishhead said:
For a #1 OA, yeah he's been disappointing so far. Before this season he had 52 points in 117 games, those are Yakupov numbers. He's really turned it on this year though, glad he's putting it together. Hopefully we see the same thing from some of our guys who are taking their time.
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Every prospect should get a chance to become better.

The fact he was a first overall should not be a factor after just 117 games.
 
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