Around the League Thread part V

[bland]

What SJ did for 15 years should absolutely be respected, because it's damn difficult to do that, but come on, everyone rips them constantly because they didn't win what matters most. What they did might be tougher than getting hot one year and winning a single Cup, but good luck trying to justify that sentiment.

They just gave a soon to be 29 year old an 8 year deal. Their previous stupid GM did that, but, we'll see how their roadblocked rebuild goes.

And when is Chicago doing the smart thing? In the last contractually obligated year of a 33 and 34 year old Kane and Toews. And after they've already been terrible as a team. But the Hawks were done winning anything like 5 years ago. However, if this was Jan, and the Hawks were in 1st place, they ain't trading Kane.

By your logic they should have retained Marleau and Thornton instead of moving on when it was appropriate.

And Chicago has had by far the best possible off-season in the league. They are cutting ties with the previous formula, even though it hurts their chances now. Their success with that group is over, they made the call to right a sinking (and stinking) ship to develop a new team free from previous expectations and unfortunately poor organizational accountability. Its brilliant management that will jump-start the required rebuild. They aren't going to use the bad Jones decision from just the previous year as an excuse to go down with the ship.

 

[lumbergh]

Was it overpayment by FLA? MK is good, but so is Huberdeau aside from a few years older. Still seems like a lot to give up for almost equal players, who both needed new deals.

I keep thinking that somehow Calgary won the hockey trade. I mean Tkachuk is a very very good young player with an edge, but Huberdeau is a still young and as valuable if not more than Tkachuk. Plus Weegar? Weird trade. Calgary was in a bad position with the public trade talk, but came out on top?

 

[kingsfan28]

I keep thinking that somehow Calgary won the hockey trade. I mean Tkachuk is a very very good young player with an edge, but Huberdeau is a still young and as valuable if not more than Tkachuk. Plus Weegar? Weird trade. Calgary was in a bad position with the public trade talk, but came out on top?

Its an odd trade for sure, but if they don't sign the guys, they move them for other assets I guess? You'd hope Huberdeau resign just to balance out the skill level they just gave up.

 

[BigKing]

Tkathuck did not need a new deal. It was the first sign and trade in NHL history.

I do not think they are equal players but can understand the debate.

Ignoring Weegar, the issue is that you get eight years of a guy in his rock-solid prime v. having to give Huberdeau the eight years throughout his entire 30s.

They've got Barkov at $10MM until he is 34. That contract ends the same year as Tkachuk's new one. They chose to tie themselves to these two guys under the belief that Tkachuk will continue to be very good for the entirety of the deal.

Is it smart? We'll find out.

 

[YP44]

Ignoring Weegar, the issue is that you get eight years of a guy in his rock-solid prime v. having to give Huberdeau the eight years throughout his entire 30s.

They've got Barkov at $10MM until he is 34. That contract ends the same year as Tkachuk's new one. They chose to tie themselves to these two guys under the belief that Tkachuk will continue to be very good for the entirety of the deal.

Is it smart? We'll find out.

I understand the gamble for the panthers for sure, just would not shock me if Tkachuk's ceiling does not last as long as Huberdeau's. I question the large uptick in production for the whole Flames first line from last year. Would be cautious of it being a one off.
Both players are damn fine players, and I think this could be a deal that works out great for both teams if all parties re-sign.

 

[Statto]

Was it overpayment by FLA? MK is good, but so is Huberdeau aside from a few years older. Still seems like a lot to give up for almost equal players, who both needed new deals.

At first glance its overpayment but you have to consider the age of MT and he’s locked up whereas Huberdeau wants to be paid big on his next deal and term is always the worry. I think though that the major thing is that MT is a different type of player, so it will evolve the way that FLA top line plays. Maybe they felt they needed a different dynamic up front? I don’t think we can assess this one until we see how FLA do in the play-offs.

 

[johnjm22]

For some reason I thought he was 26 and therefore start of the 23-24 season would be 27. Was doing 1 year because that was his qualifying or what he would have had in arbitration.
I still think Huberdeau will age better than Tkachuk. Key will be for Calgary to re-sign

I think re-signing Huberdeau would be a big mistake. A big fat long contract for a 30 year old is never a good idea.

While I do think Tkachuk is somewhat overrated and may not age well, I'd still rather have him ( a 24 year old) on a fat long term deal than a 30 year old Huberdeau.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

I still think Calgary came out okay, considering the circumstances. After Gaudreau leaving for less money and Tkachuk basically saying "I'm not staying," they managed to come out with the 2nd leading scorer in the NHL last year and a legit top pairing d-man, plus a prospect and pick. Notwithstanding Tkachuk's youth and Weegar/Huberdeau's pending UFA statuses, I feel like Calgary saved a bogey after shanking their drive off the tee at the beginning of free agency.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Was it overpayment by FLA? MK is good, but so is Huberdeau aside from a few years older. Still seems like a lot to give up for almost equal players, who both needed new deals.

Age isn't an aside in the cap world if you're talking fairly equal players. Huberdeau will be 30 when his likely 8 year contract starts. When Tkachuk is 30, he'll have 2 years left.

It's likely a great deal for Fla, but only possible because Tkachuk happened to want out. Cgy doesn't do it if he wanted to stay, for the same reason Fla does it because he didnt.

By your logic they should have retained Marleau and Thornton instead of moving on when it was appropriate.

And Chicago has had by far the best possible off-season in the league. They are cutting ties with the previous formula, even though it hurts their chances now. Their success with that group is over, they made the call to right a sinking (and stinking) ship to develop a new team free from previous expectations and unfortunately poor organizational accountability. Its brilliant management that will jump-start the required rebuild. They aren't going to use the bad Jones decision from just the previous year as an excuse to go down with the ship.

SJ kept Marleau until he was 37, and Thornton 40. Thornton started signing 1 year deals when he was 38. They gave Marleau a 3 year deal when he was 35. You know how old Kopitar was in 2016, right?

And again, it's the last year of a 33 and 34 year old Kane and Toews, and the Hawks have sucked for the last 5 years. They're not doing this with a 29 year old Kane.

Their #1 offseason has nothing to do with anything. They wouldn't be doing this now had they made the playoffs last year with a 29 year old Kane. They would still be adding to the team.

 

[johnjm22]

If Calgary re-signs Weegar and Huberdeau, they're screwed because the contracts will turn into boat anchors for the next decade.

If Calgary lets them walk, then they essentially lost Tkachuk for nothing.

They're screwed either way.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

If Calgary re-signs Weegar and Huberdeau, they're screwed because the contracts will turn into boat anchors for the next decade.

If Calgary lets them walk, then they essentially lost Tkachuk for nothing.

They're screwed either way.

There are two other possible outcomes though: a great season with them or flipping them at the deadline for picks/prospects. Weegar and Huberdeau will certainly be in demand if Calgary's a seller.

Again, not saying Calgary "won" the trade, but they did pretty well considering the hand of cards they were dealt.

 

[johnjm22]

delete

 

[johnjm22]

There are two other possible outcomes though: a great season with them or flipping them at the deadline for picks/prospects. Weegar and Huberdeau will certainly be in demand if Calgary's a seller.

Again, not saying Calgary "won" the trade, but they did pretty well considering the hand of cards they were dealt.

I think they'll have a great season. So extremely slim chance they'll be in a position to sell at the deadline.

So IMO it's a trade that's good for the short term, bad for the long term.

If I was Calgary, I'd say to hell with it and go all in. They have Sutter. Trade away your 2023 draft picks and whatever prospects you have left. Sign Kadri if you can. Go over the cap. Try and win the SC this year. Next year let Weegar/Hub walk then blow the whole thing up and rebuild.

Calgary has been a middling team for too long. I think they should go into all or nothing mode.

 

[YP44]

I think they'll have a great season. So extremely slim chance they'll be in a position to sell at the deadline.

So IMO it's a trade that's good for the short term, bad for the long term.

If I was Calgary, I'd say to hell with it and go all in. They have Sutter. Trade away your 2023 draft picks and whatever prospects you have left. Sign Kadri if you can. Go over the cap. Try and win the SC this year. Next year let Weegar/Hub walk then blow the whole thing up and rebuild.

Calgary has been a middling team for too long. I think they should go into all or nothing mode.

I was the other way with the flames thinking they have never stripped it down to the bones to do a proper rebuild. Johnny leaving and Tkachuk wanting out, in Bedard's draft year was the perfect time to go for that IMO.
The flames ownership never will go for a full rebuild, they will always push for playoffs, and because of that I do not think they will have long term success.

 

[Little Psycho]

So greatful that the teething toddler has left the Pacific.

 

[KINGS17]

Ignoring Weegar, the issue is that you get eight years of a guy in his rock-solid prime v. having to give Huberdeau the eight years throughout his entire 30s.

They've got Barkov at $10MM until he is 34. That contract ends the same year as Tkachuk's new one. They chose to tie themselves to these two guys under the belief that Tkachuk will continue to be very good for the entirety of the deal.

Is it smart? We'll find out.

I think from Florida's perspective on the deal, they were looking for a player in Tkachuk that changes their culture a bit. The Panthers are too "nice" of a team to take down Tampa. Maybe now, they aren't "too nice".

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Tkachuk made no difference in the playoffs against the Oilers, so I doubt he'll singlehandedly rattle the Tampa Bay Lightning.

 

[raswilliam]

 

[LAKings88]

Florida has traded their next three first rounders. Always a chance to get back in but wow.

 

[YP44]

haha, is this a first?

 

[KingsFan7824]

If Calgary re-signs Weegar and Huberdeau, they're screwed because the contracts will turn into boat anchors for the next decade.

If Calgary lets them walk, then they essentially lost Tkachuk for nothing.

They're screwed either way.

I think fans discount how much just making the playoffs means to the vast majority of teams. Ew, just making the playoffs? How pedestrian. Yeah, everyone wants to be a yearly contender and to win the Cup, but so many things have to come together to make that happen, that you almost can't try too hard to make it happen. You just do stuff, and sometimes it clicks perfectly.

I know nobody cares about it anymore, but remember when DL traded a 24 year old Purcell, and a 3rd rd pick, for a 33 year old soon to be UFA Jeff "0 goals in 22 games" Halpern, in a non-contending year? He did that to help that 09-10 team, that year. Let's bring in another vet.

Same thing happened the year before. Brown is already there, Simmonds is already there, and Purcell is putting up big numbers in the AHL as a 22/23 year old. What does DL still do? Trades for another RW in Willians. Bring in another vet.

If the Flames sign Huberdeau to some giant contract, they know it's going to be a problem they moment it gets signed. However, you're not getting a top 24 year old, unless that guy wants out of wherever he is. But most top 24 year olds are perfectly happy where they are. So you end up in a situation where the only guys you can get are the 29 year olds for 8 years.

 

[YP44]

I think fans discount how much just making the playoffs means to the vast majority of teams. Ew, just making the playoffs? How pedestrian. Yeah, everyone wants to be a yearly contender and to win the Cup, but so many things have to come together to make that happen, that you almost can't try too hard to make it happen. You just do stuff, and sometimes it clicks perfectly.

I know nobody cares about it anymore, but remember when DL traded a 24 year old Purcell, and a 3rd rd pick, for a 33 year old soon to be UFA Jeff "0 goals in 22 games" Halpern, in a non-contending year? He did that to help that 09-10 team, that year. Let's bring in another vet.

Same thing happened the year before. Brown is already there, Simmonds is already there, and Purcell is putting up big numbers in the AHL as a 22/23 year old. What does DL still do? Trades for another RW in Willians. Bring in another vet.

If the Flames sign Huberdeau to some giant contract, they know it's going to be a problem they moment it gets signed. However, you're not getting a top 24 year old, unless that guy wants out of wherever he is. But most top 24 year olds are perfectly happy where they are. So you end up in a situation where the only guys you can get are the 29 year olds for 8 years.

At this point in his tenure Brad T will not see the bad years of any Huberdeau contract anyway.

 

[KingsFan7824]

At this point in his tenure Brad T will not see the bad years of any Huberdeau contract anyway.

That's another factor. You don't want to give a 7/8 year term, but you have to, because you can't pay a guy $40m for 3 years because of the cap. You need the space, so stretch $40m over 7 years, but front load the cash as much as you can.

You're buying the last 4 years, but what you're paying for are the first 3, because if it doesn't work in 3 years, like you say, you're probably getting fired.

The cap does its job, it might be the only reason the Kings have a Cup, but the term kills you. And every team gets into that mess at some point, because every team needs to do the same thing; keep that cap hit down.

 

[YP44]

I know myself and a lot of people joked that Kadri is probably already and Islander just Lou waiting to announce...sounds like that is what is going on haha

 

[johnjm22]

I know nobody cares about it anymore, but remember when DL traded a 24 year old Purcell, and a 3rd rd pick, for a 33 year old soon to be UFA Jeff "0 goals in 22 games" Halpern, in a non-contending year? He did that to help that 09-10 team, that year. Let's bring in another vet.

That's a nothing trade. That'd be like trading away Lias Andersson today.