Around the League Thread part V

[KINGS17]

Poor Kale Clague doesn’t even get a qualifying offer.

I bought a case of Kale Clague from a nutritional store at Amazon. It's supposed to give you a great cleanse.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I bought a case of Kale Clague from a nutritional store at Amazon. It's supposed to give you a great cleanse.

I hear the Cale Makar is a better version.

 

[Stimpythecat]

Leafs:

 

[Choralone]

How could they not like it? It's broccoli, cauliflower and kale! Has America gone mad?

They're stopped making it, how am I gonna get it? I need my Veggie-Boy. This is all there is? This isn't even gonna last me through the night!

I know, I know. I can take this to a lab and have it analyzed. I can make my own. You know, I've got a blender.

I'll move back to Indiana. I'll grow kale!

 

[LAKings88]

Colorado about to make some Dean Lombardi mistakes on handing out big loyalty champ contracts

Holy crap what is Toronto doing? Instead of giving Campbell 5mil ish per season they’re gonna trade for 4.5mil of Matt Murray? Dubas is trash

I couldn’t understand Ottawa going after him let alone Toronto. Big gamble.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I would just love to be the fly on the wall of the "We can't rely on Jack Campbell...we need...MATT MURRAY" conversation.

 

[Little Psycho]

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

With Malkin reportedly headed to NYR, having Kane too could be their shot to go for it.

 

[cyclones22]

Okay so how on Earth are they going to make the money work?

 

[Little Psycho]

Okay so how on Earth are they going to make the money work?

Malkin will end up on IR and be ready for the post season.

 

[Statto]

While a few of us were clearly wrong about him as a player, the symptoms continue with literally every other prospect, so...

It’s a different discussion with the defencemen. Every other D call up has been better than Clague, so no it’s not a symptom of anything IMO. Clague just doesn’t have ‘it’.

 

[Statto]

My biggest issue was waiving him, but you're right that he hasn't been that good.

I never saw they had much choice because (I never felt) he had any trade value. That‘s not hindsight either, I posted it more than once. Montreal were in an injury crisis of sorts when they took him IIRC and if that wasn’t the case it he probably passes through waivers and it’s us not qualifying him instead.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It’s a different discussion with the defencemen. Every other D call up has been better than Clague, so no it’s not a symptom of anything IMO. Clague just doesn’t have ‘it’.

Being dicked around with playing time between the minors and main roster has happened with a lot more than Clague and I'm pretty sure I don't need to go over the evidence yet again.

Clague not having 'it' doesn't mean he wasn't also mishandled.

 

[KingsFan7824]

6 years for a 29 year old Rakell. 6 years for a 30 year old Rust. 6 years for a 35 year old Letang. Carter only got 2 years at 37 though.

 

[cyclones22]

The Kings are trying to use their farm team and how they send prospects up and down like the Dodgers. Trying to maximize waiver eligibility and roster flexibility etc. The problem is that the Dodgers are the best team in MLB over the last handful of years AND are among the best at developing prospects if not THE best. So they can plug and play players in and out of the lineup. The Kings are neither of those.

 

[Herby]

Clague just got old (for a hockey prospect), he couldn’t lock down a spot and no one wanted to give anything of value for him so Blake had no choice but to waive him. In the eyes of the NHL CBA fourth year pro players who are 23 are no longer considered prospects.

We will likely see the same thing happen with at least two of JAD, Vilardi or Lias at the end of camp this year. As shocking as it is for some to grasp, other teams have their own tweener players like Clague, Vilardi, JAD and Lias and aren’t super eager to trade anything to get our tweener players.

And as much as it’s valid to criticize the Kings for awful development decisions and results with forwards, they have been pretty strong with defenseman. Clague just wasn’t good enough.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Clague just got old (for a hockey prospect), he couldn’t lock down a spot and no one wanted to give anything of value for him so Blake had no choice but to waive him. In the eyes of the NHL CBA fourth year pro players who are 23 are no longer considered prospects.

We will likely see the same thing happen with at least two of JAD, Vilardi or Lias at the end of camp this year. As shocking as it is for some to grasp, other teams have their own tweener players like Clague, Vilardi, JAD and Lias and aren’t super eager to trade anything to get our tweener players.

And as much as it’s valid to criticize the Kings for awful development decisions and results with forwards, they have been pretty strong with defenseman. Clague just wasn’t good enough.

The difference is every one of those guys is a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Sure waivers are a thing precisely for that reason but other teams aren't bleeding 'top' prospects like that due to having too many random ass bodies around and poor development decisions.

My point overall is even if Clague was inevitably on the outs he's been handled the same way most of our other prospects have been handled, in fits and starts, with poor minutes and deployment, and then when forced into bigger/better minutes he DID perform and was subsequently tanked. You could replace that name with many others and it's the same paragraph.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The Kings are trying to use their farm team and how they send prospects up and down like the Dodgers. Trying to maximize waiver eligibility and roster flexibility etc. The problem is that the Dodgers are the best team in MLB over the last handful of years AND are among the best at developing prospects if not THE best. So they can plug and play players in and out of the lineup. The Kings are neither of those.

Before you can do that, you have to be the best at doing it, without ever having been able to do it, because you can't do it unless you're the best at it?

Yet we'll rip the Kings for not playing the prospects, even though they might not be the best option as of the current minute.

 

[cyclones22]

Before you can do that, you have to be the best at doing it, without ever having been able to do it, because you can't do it unless you're the best at it?

Yet we'll rip the Kings for not playing the prospects, even though they might not be the best option as of the current minute.

It's called track record. The Dodgers developed one and are now proven and other franchises are trying to emulate them. The Kings are trying to develop a process that is different from the norm, but their track record of developing blue chippers is trash. So it's fair to doubt them.

 

[Herby]

The difference is every one of those guys is a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Sure waivers are a thing precisely for that reason but other teams aren't bleeding 'top' prospects like that due to having too many random ass bodies around and poor development decisions.

My point overall is even if Clague was inevitably on the outs he's been handled the same way most of our other prospects have been handled, in fits and starts, with poor minutes and deployment, and then when forced into bigger/better minutes he DID perform and was subsequently tanked. You could replace that name with many others and it's the same paragraph.

Clague was a 2nd round pick as well, and at the time of being waived probably had similar value to the players mentioned have today. And the Kings couldn’t get anyone to give up anything for him.

I don’t doubt that teams may take a shot on any of those 3, just as Montreal did with Clague. But making a dart throw waiver pick is different than trading a draft pick for any of them. Especially at the end of training camps where there are many Vilardi and Clague caliber players available for free.

Also, anyone can correct me if I’m wrong but do the waiver rules say that if the team who claims the player later waives them that the original waiving team gets first dibs? It might make more sense for the Kings to see how those 3 look at camp and try and pass whatever ones don’t make the cut through waivers when there are hundreds of players on waivers league wide than to trade then for a 4th or 5th rounder.

As far as Clague’s development. To me his defensive game sense was his fatal flaw, much like with Gabe’s skating, you have to be simply exceptional at many other facets to overcome a weakness that big. He is one of those guys that may be able to make a career as a #6 on a bad team but also may be a AAAA player.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It's called track record. The Dodgers developed one and are now proven and other franchises are trying to emulate them. The Kings are trying to develop a process that is different from the norm, but their track record of developing blue chippers is trash. So it's fair to doubt them.

But how do you get a track record? Where does it start? Because the Kings had never won a Cup before 2012, so how did they win one? With most players on the roster never having won, which is a track record of not winning. They hadn't even had a track record of getting out of the 1st rd for the vast majority of 20 years, other than beating an injuried pre-HoF Detroit team.

 

[Statto]

Being dicked around with playing time between the minors and main roster has happened with a lot more than Clague and I'm pretty sure I don't need to go over the evidence yet again.

Clague not having 'it' doesn't mean he wasn't also mishandled.

I agree they certainly are not mutually exclusive things. Given that they largely handled the rest of the D well I can only assume that he didn’t do certain things that were asked of him. Purely speculation on my part, granted.

 

[BringTheReign]

6 years for a 29 year old Rakell. 6 years for a 30 year old Rust. 6 years for a 35 year old Letang. Carter only got 2 years at 37 though.

I know Rakell looked great for them after the deadline, but that contract shocked me. Rust is older, but he's at least proven recently that he can drive the bus himself when needed. I'm skeptical of both if they actually do let Malkin walk, but than again Sullivan made Rodrigues and co look like all-stars last year...

 

[BringTheReign]

It's called track record. The Dodgers developed one and are now proven and other franchises are trying to emulate them. The Kings are trying to develop a process that is different from the norm, but their track record of developing blue chippers is trash. So it's fair to doubt them.

On a tangentially related note, I read a great article in The Athletic about the Dodgers farm system: ‘He is one of a kind’: Mark Kertenian teaches baseball and life lessons as Dodgers’ players guru.

Also, I agree on our blue-chip track record. We've turned late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders (Toff, Pearson, Kempe, Kaliyev) into better players than our top 10 picks somehow. The one thing I will say is that the Dodgers can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on their roster, and probably pump nearly as much into their farm system and development. The Kings are a rich franchise as far as hockey goes, but I don't think we have that kind of cheddar.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree they certainly are not mutually exclusive things. Given that they largely handled the rest of the D well I can only assume that he didn’t do certain things that were asked of him. Purely speculation on my part, granted.

He def had his own problems too as much as I liked him. The smoke about him being a pissy little bitch about demotion was plentiful.