Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

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MCR74

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LOL at Edmonton, I think this is their peak. Reminds of when the Flyers made the finals in 97 and got smoked by the far superior Wings. And never hit that level again. Edmonton has A LOT of problems and are fortunate they are in the weaker Western Conference.

The Panthers are just way better up and down their lineup. 5 on 5, Florida's clearly better. Edmonton's staying in games through being powerplay merchants.

I remember when Campbell was signed and everyone on the TSN panel was screaming "Finally The Edmonton Oilers have stabilized their goaltender situation. " It was a half shot at the leafs too.

Their goalie situation is a bloody mess.

Florida's just a well balanced team, with size, skill, good forwards, good defense and excellent goaltending. Its not shocking they are here. I think losing last year too, helped them a lot.

Also, the thoroughbreds in Florida are just eating Hyman alive right now. He's completely outmatched.

The TSN panel's been pretty quiet on that front lately.

I don't give two shits about McDavid and Draisaitl, who are nowhere to be found. The Oilers are seriously flawed compared to Florida. Hopefully Treliving is taking notes.
 
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ACC1224

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See this is where the Dubas fanboys really begin to contradict themselves.

So it's perfectly acceptable to pay 40-50% of the cap to 4 forwards, but it's also perfectly acceptable to excuse them losing the playoffs cause they get "goalie'd". All while simultaneously justifying the Leafs paying among the least amount of cap to the goalie position, saying that's perfectly ok because goaltending is just "voodoo".
The Team has always needed better goaltending, no doubt.
Which high end goalie have they missed out on due to cap?
 
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Fogelhund

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Looking at all the finalists since the lockout and the answer is obvious.

2024 - Florida, Bobrovsky*
2023 - Florida, Bobrovsky
2022 - Tampa, Vasilevski
2021 - Montreal, Price; Tampa, Vasilevski*
2020 - Tampa, Vasilevski*
2019 - Boston, Rask; St. Louis, Binnington*
2018 - Vegas, Fleury
2017 - Nashville, Rinne
2016 - N/A
2015 - N/A
2014 - NYR, Lundquist; LA, Quick*
2013 - Boston, Rask
2012 - NJ, Brodeur; LA, Quick*
2011 - Vancouver, Luongo; Boston, Rask*
2010 - N/A
2009 - Pittsburgh, Fleury*
2008 - Pittsburgh, Fleury
2007 - Anaheim, Gibson*
2006 - N/A
*Cup winner

If you do the same for defense it's a very, very, very, similar list of teams with Norris caliber defensemen.

So hard to believe Dubas couldn't see this for himself the entire time he was here.

So half had elite goaltending, and half didn't....

""
 
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IPS

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The Team has always needed better goaltending, no doubt.
Which high end goalie have they missed out on due to cap?
Linus Ullmark from a few years back was an absolute no brainer, and they could have easily afforded him.
 
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ACC1224

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Linus Ullmark from a few years back was an absolute no brainer, and they could have easily afforded him.
A miss for sure but wouldn't they have been able to fit him in under the cap?
 

IPS

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A miss for sure but wouldn't they have been able to fit him in under the cap?
They sure would have, but they opted for a cheaper Petr Mrazek instead, turned out to be a brilliant move.

Actually Dubas went quite heavy on the bargain bin that offseason - we got Ritchie, Kase, Bunting, Kampf, Simmonds, and also re-signed Dermott for $1.5.

Yeah probably shoulda just paid a bit more and got Ullmark, even if you had to beat the Bruins offer significantly.
 

ACC1224

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They sure would have, but they opted for a cheaper Petr Mrazek instead, turned out to be a brilliant move.
so the top heavy cap really hasn't prevented them from grabbing a top goalie?
 

IPS

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so the top heavy cap really hasn't prevented them from grabbing a top goalie?
Well technically nothing would ever directly prevent them from it but with the heavy top end forward structure you're already wearing way too thin on depth forwards and D - unless you want that to become an even more alarming problem, you basically have to spend cheap-ish on a goalie if you wanna make things work.
 

Fogelhund

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A miss for sure but wouldn't they have been able to fit him in under the cap?

Mrazek had a cap hit of $3.8 mil. Ullmark $5 mil.... I think there could have been a way to squeeze him in. I was a proponent of trading for Ullmark when he was with the Sabres. It sure would have been better than the parade of goalies we've had.

 
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ACC1224

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Well technically nothing would ever directly prevent them from it but with the heavy top end forward structure you're already wearing way too thin on depth forwards and D - unless you want that to become an even more alarming problem, you basically have to spend cheap-ish on a goalie if you wanna make things work.
yeah I get it. I thought maybe there was someone they missed out on that I wasn't aware.

I'd like to think that if they had a chance on a top end goalie they would have figured it out.
 

Fogelhund

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Toronto over the last five playoffs

SH%: 7.99% (21 out of 27, league average 9.3%)
SV%: 0.908 (11th out of 27, league average 0.907)

GF60: 2.49 (18th of 27, league average 2.79)
GA60: 2.62 (8th of 27, league average 2.79)

Scoring and shooting has been our biggest issue.
Goalies next.
D last.
 

ToneDog

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And the "well run" Hurricanes.

Bruins elite goaltender has got them to ... a win over 3/4 of a Leafs team with Samsonov.
They lost in the 2nd round to the team that is going to win the SC (banner please). They have little offense and IIRC scored the most goals on Bob these playoffs. Perhaps it was Swayman that gave them a chance?
 

TheGreenTBer

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Then he goes out and trades for Karlsson.
I still blame part of that on Mike Sullivan.

Dubas doesn't have the authority to fire the coach because he was hired by FSG directly and the Boston boys stick together. Sullivan is the wrong coach for Karlsson and they are using him incorrectly.

Still, he has a massive contract and a massive injury history...trading for him was a massive risk. Pittsburgh's not winning another Cup with that core no matter how insanely consistent Crosby is. Malkin and Letang are deteriorating and they're tight to the Cap.

You hate to see it.
 

ToneDog

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The TSN panel's been pretty quiet on that front lately.

I don't give two shits about McDavid and Draisaitl, who are nowhere to be found. The Oilers are seriously flawed compared to Florida. Hopefully Treliving is taking notes.
McDavid looks like Marner on steroids. Draisaitl may be banged up. Oilers being beaten up by the heavier Panthers. Our core would be in wheelchairs if they made it this far.

Toronto over the last five playoffs

SH%: 7.99% (21 out of 27, league average 9.3%)
SV%: 0.908 (11th out of 27, league average 0.907)

GF60: 2.49 (18th of 27, league average 2.79)
GA60: 2.62 (8th of 27, league average 2.79)

Scoring and shooting has been our biggest issue.
Goalies next.
D last.
Problem with our goalies has been giving up a stinker at key moments. Andersen was solid vs Caps, Bruins and Jackets but folded like a cheap suitcase in big moments.
 
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MCR74

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I still blame part of that on Mike Sullivan.

Dubas doesn't have the authority to fire the coach because he was hired by FSG directly and the Boston boys stick together. Sullivan is the wrong coach for Karlsson and they are using him incorrectly.

Still, he has a massive contract and a massive injury history...trading for him was a massive risk. Pittsburgh's not winning another Cup with that core no matter how insanely consistent Crosby is. Malkin and Letang are deteriorating and they're tight to the Cap.

You hate to see it.

Either way, it was a f*** up. He's on the downswing of his career, as are the rest of Pittsburgh's vets. I'm sure Kyle had stars in his eyes when Karlsson became available, and I'm very glad he had left the Leafs prior to.
 
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ULF_55

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They lost in the 2nd round to the team that is going to win the SC (banner please). They have little offense and IIRC scored the most goals on Bob these playoffs. Perhaps it was Swayman that gave them a chance?
And last year their goaltending got them (Bruins) to ... handshake in the first round?

Just saying it isn't just goaltending is it, and last year the Leafs lost to the finalists who this year are likely going to win the Cup. We know the Leafs didn't have good goaltending with Samsonov, they had poor goaltending.

I get what you're saying, but it appears a team just needs good goaltending, not elite goaltending.

1718376607379.png


So the questions might be?
  • Can Woll stay healthy?
  • Can a coach recognize who is the better option?
  • Can a GM recognize who is the best option?

1718377002109.png
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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And last year their goaltending got them (Bruins) to ... handshake in the first round?

Just saying it isn't just goaltending is it, and last year the Leafs lost to the finalists who this year are likely going to win the Cup. We know the Leafs didn't have good goaltending with Samsonov, they had poor goaltending.

I get what you're saying, but it appears a team just needs good goaltending, not elite goaltending.

View attachment 882740

So the questions might be?
  • Can Woll stay healthy?
  • Can a coach recognize who is the better option?
  • Can a GM recognize who is the best option?

View attachment 882743
I actually do not blame our goalies because they outperform their contracts IMO. I blame the core for sucking in the playoffs and demanding top dollar.
 
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TheGreenTBer

the only language I speak is FAILURE
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Not absolving them of this, but they were very productive prior to this and dragged them this far. McDrai come to play in the postseason, they're just getting slowed down more easily now because they are out of gas and being kept to the outside.

Now they are facing a team that is better in literally every area outside of McDrai and the results are consistent with that concept.
 
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Fogelhund

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I actually do not blame our goalies because they outperform their contracts IMO. I blame the core for sucking in the playoffs and demanding top dollar.
I just blame the core for sucking in the playoffs. If they took a few less dollars, and we had a marginally better support group, the core would still have sucked in the playoffs, and we still would likely lose. If your top players aren't leading you... good luck.

Barkov and Tkachuk are Florida's two highest paid forwards, and leading them in scoring in the playoffs.... plus providing a ton more than just offense.

Edmonton's elite forwards are just getting nothing done.

If your best players, aren't the best players on the ice when it matters, you are done.
 

TheGreenTBer

the only language I speak is FAILURE
Apr 30, 2021
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I actually do not blame our goalies because they outperform their contracts IMO. I blame the core for sucking in the playoffs and demanding top dollar.
Yup.

You can't blame bad players for being bad. They are playing to their capabilities. The core 4 are not bad players and are not playing up to their talent level, expectations or salaries. They are the problem.
 
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Zybalto

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McDavid has 3 points in the series and no other Oiler has more than 1.

McDavid leads all forwards on both teams for Shots on goal, high danger chances for and individual expected goals. Hyman leads for total scoring chances as McDavid just keeps feeding him.

Team save%: .955-.868 Cats (updated to reflect the actual goalies save%)

Bob is stealing the show this series.
 
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