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Around the league part 2

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Why do people take issue with other fans for not unrelentingly glazing Kopitar and Doughty? I dont understand the issue here. There's not one person on this board who doesn't see the value of Kopitar/Doughty during the cup runs. HOWEVER.... it is TRUE that the Kings are unbelievably soft and there is undeniable correlation here that Kopitar is not the captain that will stand up for his linemates, Doughty isn't the kind of player who even stands up for himself. As team mates I honestly don't think I could respect Kopitar and Doughty wholesale. They're not leadership material. That's my only issue with them. I think their pacfism and general demeanor is extremely toxic to a group of players. If these are your idols and role models, why on earth would the Kings be a tough group of guys?

I think Kopitar and Doughty were pivotal players playing in the right circumstances with real leaders on the team that allowed them to thrive.

I think the real leaders during the cup runs have been long gone, and two guys who are great players individually happened to be shitty leaders which is why the Kings are so soft and mentally fragile. I think it's undeniable really, if you get blasted through the boards and you see Kopitar gliding to the bench or just gently hugging a player, while Doughty skates away just running his mouth doing nothing. That shit will absolutely sink in to the other players. Great players, shitty leaders. Love what they've done for the organization during the cup runs, but they're undoubtedly pivotal to the demise of this organization as well.

That is not hard to see.
 
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Nasti said:
You could tell by the look on his face as soon as they got eliminated. Yeah, I didn’t hate him either and was hoping he’d get a cup. How many from the 2003 draft left now? Burns, Fleury?
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I had no idea burns was still playing wow
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Joe Pavelski announced his retirement. The guy is turning 40 in July, and he still put up 67 points in his last NHL season. If only that bum PLD had an ounce of Pavelski's heart.
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Of all the rats in San Jose, Pavelski was the guy that always had my respect. That dude played with his heart on his sleeve and I'm bummed he never won it.
 
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Nasti said:
You could tell by the look on his face as soon as they got eliminated. Yeah, I didn’t hate him either and was hoping he’d get a cup. How many from the 2003 draft left now? Burns, Fleury?
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From the 2003 draft, only Perry, Suter, Burns, and Fleury are still playing. From 2004, only Ovechkin and Malkin are still certain, while Wheeler and Goligoski are question marks. Depending on who all retires, Kopitar might be one of the ten or fifteen oldest skaters in the league next year.
 
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kilowatt said:
From the 2003 draft, only Perry, Suter, Burns, and Fleury are still playing. From 2004, only Ovechkin and Malkin are still certain, while Wheeler and Goligoski are question marks. Depending on who all retires, Kopitar might be one of the ten or fifteen oldest skaters in the league next year.
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Are we talking old like Clint Eastwood in dirty harry or Luc Vegan Robitaille looking like a straight up Sith Lord Old! Instead of force lightning carrot juice flows out of his fingers!
 
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Sol said:
Why do people take issue with other fans for not unrelentingly glazing Kopitar and Doughty? I dont understand the issue here. There's not one person on this board who doesn't see the value of Kopitar/Doughty during the cup runs. HOWEVER.... it is TRUE that the Kings are unbelievably soft and there is undeniable correlation here that Kopitar is not the captain that will stand up for his linemates, Doughty isn't the kind of player who even stands up for himself. As team mates I honestly don't think I could respect Kopitar and Doughty wholesale. They're not leadership material. That's my only issue with them. I think their pacfism and general demeanor is extremely toxic to a group of players. If these are your idols and role models, why on earth would the Kings be a tough group of guys?

I think Kopitar and Doughty were pivotal players playing in the right circumstances with real leaders on the team that allowed them to thrive.

I think the real leaders during the cup runs have been long gone, and two guys who are great players individually happened to be shitty leaders which is why the Kings are so soft and mentally fragile. I think it's undeniable really, if you get blasted through the boards and you see Kopitar gliding to the bench or just gently hugging a player, while Doughty skates away just running his mouth doing nothing. That shit will absolutely sink in to the other players. Great players, shitty leaders. Love what they've done for the organization during the cup runs, but they're undoubtedly pivotal to the demise of this organization as well.

That is not hard to see.
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The problem isn’t and has never been 8 or 11. In terms of the contracts they are not the biggest waste of money on the team, not in any way. They may be a touch over paid now but they are certainly not the issue. We can look at Petersen, the salary retention, PLD and arguably Fiala as all being worse uses of the salary cap.

In terms of leadership I agree neither is an on ice ‘fighter’ and both seem to lead by examples in terms of performance and off ice input. My issue has always been the overall leadership group, in that it lacks a Matt Greene and another similar type, plus there isn’t enough grit in the team ar a whole. If you add that ingredient in then suddenly the perceived flaws in Kopitars captaincy become of minimal importance and we just see him as a great example as a professional and a model of consistency.

What makes the point is, if not Kopitar then who? Sure you can say Kempe maybe but he doesn’t scream out as being the type of Captain some people want either but instead it’s more of ‘worth a try’ thought process. That’s the issue, I’m not saying Kopitar is the best Captain in the league and I was furious that the stripped in from Brown btw. However, I don’t see an obvious different choice Captain on the roster. That then takes us back to the problem that the real issue is the lack of a properly balanced leadership group. If you have that it becomes much less of an issue who has the C.

Greene, Regehr, Mitchell, Brown, Kopitar, Williams, Muzzin, Doughty and Richard’s. Any of them would have a legitimate Captain and nobody would have felt they were a bad choice because you could see the leadership oozing out of the group of players in the room. They are all different characters and all would be different type of leaders but the strength was in them as a complete group.

If you look at the leadership group now it is so much weaker. I include Kopitar/Doughty as part of that old leadership group (even if it’s just as being elite players) but who else on the current roster would get close to it. Nobody. I’m sure people will throw out the odd name as a maybe… but that’s the problem it shouldn’t be a ‘maybe’.
 
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Statto said:
The problem isn’t and has never been 8 or 11. In terms of the contracts they are not the biggest waste of money on the team, not in any way. They may be a touch over paid now but they are certainly not the issue. We can look at Petersen, the salary retention, PLD and arguably Fiala as all being worse uses of the salary cap.

In terms of leadership I agree neither is an on ice ‘fighter’ and both seem to lead by examples in terms of performance and off ice input. My issue has always been the overall leadership group, in that it lacks a Matt Greene and another similar type, plus there isn’t enough grit in the team ar a whole. If you add that ingredient in then suddenly the perceived flaws in Kopitars captaincy become of minimal importance and we just see him as a great example as a professional and a model of consistency.

What makes the point is, if not Kopitar then who? Sure you can say Kempe maybe but he doesn’t scream out as being the type of Captain some people want either but instead it’s more of ‘worth a try’ thought process. That’s the issue, I’m not saying Kopitar is the best Captain in the league and I was furious that the stripped in from Brown btw. However, I don’t see an obvious different choice Captain on the roster. That then takes us back to the problem that the real issue is the lack of a properly balanced leadership group. If you have that it becomes much less of an issue who has the C.

Greene, Regehr, Mitchell, Brown, Kopitar, Williams, Muzzin, Doughty and Richard’s. Any of them would have a legitimate Captain and nobody would have felt they were a bad choice because you could see the leadership oozing out of the group of players in the room. They are all different characters and all would be different type of leaders but the strength was in them as a complete group.

If you look at the leadership group now it is so much weaker. I include Kopitar/Doughty as part of that old leadership group (even if it’s just as being elite players) but who else on the current roster would get close to it. Nobody. I’m sure people will throw out the odd name as a maybe… but that’s the problem it shouldn’t be a ‘maybe’.
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No, the real problem is the leadership in this organization is incompetent and far too comfortable. Not moving on from Kopitar and Doughty is just a symptom of that problem.
 
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I dont see the oilers losing. McDavid wont let them lose after coming so close imo. Oilers in 6.
 
This is all on McDavid for the Oilers. He's close to a cup, don't think he's going to let anyone stop him. I firmly believe Oilers will win it. As much as I don't want that to happen. Florida will put up a fight though. Going to be an exciting one.
 
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FrozenKing18 said:
This is all on McDavid for the Oilers. He's close to a cup, don't think he's going to let anyone stop him. I firmly believe Oilers will win it. As much as I don't want that to happen. Florida will put up a fight though. Going to be an exciting one.
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Yeah I don’t think the Oilers lose this series. McDavid won’t allow that shit after being so close. Might see one of the craziest individual performances in modern hockey. If there’s one guy who can do it, it’s him.
 
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Panthers have to dictate their brand of hockey. If they do and stay out of the box, I think they win this.

Have to give Skinner his due, the reset for him in the Vancouver series was huge but I still give the Panthers the edge in net, Bob has been tremendous and dialed in.

Like the Panthers D corps much better than the Oil.
 
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It's interesting, the Oilers are bigger dogs in this series (+115) than they were vs. Dallas (+100), but everyone thought they were going to get curb-stomped by Dallas, and now alot of you seem resigned to the fact that they are going to beat Florida.

Dallas was a bit overrated I think, they are basically a better version of the Kings, kill you with depth, but the lack of that huge difference making player hurt them. Their best players disappeared vs. Edmonton, and depth doesn't mean much if the big names can't do anything.

I am betting on Florida strictly as a hedge because I had the Oilers +750 before the playoffs. But I think it's a coin flip, Edmonton is way better than people thought, especially defensively and with their depth. But Florida is a machine, there is nobody I'd want coaching my team more than Paul Maurice.
 
I get that Hyman has had an incredible season, but man, they are acting like he’d score 56 goals on the Kings too. As I said with Kadri, beware of players who have career years in their 30’s. Of course, Kadri won a cup that year and Hyman might do the same, so it only matters if you don’t win.
 
I dont care how good Bobrovsky is. Oilers PP is dialed in and can't be stopped. Too many people underestimating McDavid and his legacy being on the line.
 
Sol said:
I dont care how good Bobrovsky is. Oilers PP is dialed in and can't be stopped. Too many people underestimating McDavid and his legacy being on the line.
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i think there's less underestimating and more crediting florida's ability to stifle exactly those kind of players

plus he can only go end to end so many times before tkachuk has an oopsie near him
 
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Nasti said:
I get that Hyman has had an incredible season, but man, they are acting like he’d score 56 goals on the Kings too. As I said with Kadri, beware of players who have career years in their 30’s. Of course, Kadri won a cup that year and Hyman might do the same, so it only matters if you don’t win.
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Hyman needs to pray at the shrine of McDavid. If people can't see that his entire production revolves around a top 5 player routinely dancing through the opposition and leaving him open for goals then they're idiots. I mean good on Hyman for potting them in but I am sure Toffoli would be producing similarly if he was next to McDavid.

tny760 said:
i think there's less underestimating and more crediting florida's ability to stifle exactly those kind of players

plus he can only go end to end so many times before tkachuk has an oopsie near him
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I feel like we've been saying this all playoffs and it has yet to happen. Don't see why it'd happen now.
 
Sol said:
I dont care how good Bobrovsky is. Oilers PP is dialed in and can't be stopped. Too many people underestimating McDavid and his legacy being on the line.
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Crosby lost his first cup final. He ended up winning 3 so far. McDavid has plenty of time to cement his legacy. Hell, even Gretzky lost his first.
 
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