Around the league part 2

[lumbergh]

For the 1000th time Brock Faber would be on the Reign rotting in the "A" if he is still in this organization. He has to pay his dues before ever moving up the ranks. That's just how it works it seems with the Kings. LOL.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Blake offered Faber the chance to play on the Kings if he had signed in 2022. No dues required.

Ah here it is:

https://x.com/JessRMyers/status/1513910270531362819?s=20

 

[Herby]

Sad thing is we HAD both, no choice required. Then Blake entered the chat.

What a time to be a Kings fan.

I think the #1 pre-requisite to finishing a rebuild is having at least one star, but ideally two stars that you can confidently say are the backbone of your franchise. The Kings had this with Kopitar and Doughty, a team like Vancouver has it with Petterssen and Hughes. I don't know if Kings have one player at that type of level, I think Clarke could maybe get there but it's tough to know because we have such a small NHL games to go off of with this ridiculous slow cook strategy of the Kings, if I had to guess maybe he's just a level below guys like Makar, Hughes and Fox

But the Kings actually did do a pretty effective job of building up secondary pieces. Despite being an early Favor truther, I still am not sure the offense will keep up enough where he is Doughty good, although if this is the norm he very well could be a franchise d-man on the level of Doughty, but I am still a little skeptical the offense will hold. I was not a big Vilardi fan mostly due to skating, but he has definitely developed into what is going to be a very solid 2nd line winger for a contending team, ditto with Byfield except I think his ceiling is as a 1st line winger, not a franchise player but a useful one, I wouldn't say the value has been great for where he went, but he's looking better than he did a year ago. Anderson is a really solid 2nd pair defensive stopper, could easily be a Willie Mitchell type on a contending team one day.

Faber (Top 20'ish d-man)
Clarke (Top 20'ish d-man)
Byfield (1st line winger)
Anderson (2nd line shut down defenseman)
Vilardi (2nd line winger)

Obviously the Turcotte miss, getting basically nothing from a Top 5 pick hurts, as does the Bjornfot and Kupari whiffs, but no rebuild is perfect, even the last one survived that generations Turcotte and Bjornfot (Hickey and Teubert). But you have those 5 names and then you add probably a similar caliber prospect in 2022 (there were no stars), which further helps with those secondary pieces. But it's the 2023 draft that I think is going to be the one where we look back and say "Damn, we needed to be picking in the Top 5". Bedard really not much more needs to be said, if you ended up with him it changes the entire course of your franchise for 15-20 years, but even Carlsson and Fantilli very likely give you the crown jewel #1 center that Blake was so desperately looking for with all those picks from 2017-2020. I don't think Will Smith is a 100% lock franchise 1C like the other guys, but it's certainly very possible he is that kind of player, and even if he's not he's still the highest ceiling prospect you have, and then you have Michkov who has the Kucherov type talent level who was an option to, the type of guy who can lead your team in scoring for a decade.

With as far out as draft years are projected, and with what the Kings should have known from watching their own guys play in the system it should have been painfully apparent that they lacked those couple of pre-req type of players you need to have to end the rebuild. That is what is just so frustrating with the awful decisions made by this management team. Not only do you miss out on being able to draft the generational superstar, or one of the other 4 franchise players in 2023, the need to add older players to appease Drew Doughty caused you to lose probably the best player the Kings have drafted since Doughty, and a guy who will probably be able to challenge for 25-35 goals a season.

Fiala is a fun player to watch, Danault has been a great leader and joy to watch, Gavrikov also. But these guys are short term fixes and the guys we lost out on either through trades or not finishing a proper rebuild and picking high are going to be NHL forces for another 10-15 years.

 

[Herby]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Blake offered Faber the chance to play on the Kings if he had signed in 2022. No dues required.

Ah here it is:

https://x.com/JessRMyers/status/1513910270531362819?s=20

He offered him one game, in the Twin Cities and a year burned off his ELC. There were no guarantees he was going to make the Kings the next season. Faber and his ag....err "family advisor" made the very smart and forward thinking decision to return to the University of Minnesota and better grow as a player in a much better development environment in the Big 10 vs. the AHL. He continued to grow in that environment and was able to seamlessly jump right from the Big Ten to the Minnesota Wild's playoff lineup a few days after his NCAA season ended, without any stops in the AHL, (quick someone grab the defibilator for Muzz)

Let's be honest, we all know why he was offered the one game, it was to entice him to leave college because Rob Blake and his cronies believed that the AHL was a better development environment than the NCAA (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary). It was the same bill of goods they sold to Alex Turcotte and his advisors, except Faber and his people didn't bite and harm his development like Turcotte's did.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think the #1 pre-requisite to finishing a rebuild is having at least one star, but ideally two stars that you can confidently say are the backbone of your franchise. The Kings had this with Kopitar and Doughty, a team like Vancouver has it with Petterssen and Hughes. I don't know if Kings have one player at that type of level, I think Clarke could maybe get there but it's tough to know because we have such a small NHL games to go off of with this ridiculous slow cook strategy of the Kings, if I had to guess maybe he's just a level below guys like Makar, Hughes and Fox

But the Kings actually did do a pretty effective job of building up secondary pieces. Despite being an early Favor truther, I still am not sure the offense will keep up enough where he is Doughty good, although if this is the norm he very well could be a franchise d-man on the level of Doughty, but I am still a little skeptical the offense will hold. I was not a big Vilardi fan mostly due to skating, but he has definitely developed into what is going to be a very solid 2nd line winger for a contending team, ditto with Byfield except I think his ceiling is as a 1st line winger, not a franchise player but a useful one, I wouldn't say the value has been great for where he went, but he's looking better than he did a year ago. Anderson is a really solid 2nd pair defensive stopper, could easily be a Willie Mitchell type on a contending team one day.

Faber (Top 20'ish d-man)
Clarke (Top 20'ish d-man)
Byfield (1st line winger)
Anderson (2nd line shut down defenseman)
Vilardi (2nd line winger)

Obviously the Turcotte miss, getting basically nothing from a Top 5 pick hurts, as does the Bjornfot and Kupari whiffs, but no rebuild is perfect, even the last one survived that generations Turcotte and Bjornfot (Hickey and Teubert). But you have those 5 names and then you add probably a similar caliber prospect in 2022 (there were no stars), which further helps with those secondary pieces. But it's the 2023 draft that I think is going to be the one where we look back and say "Damn, we needed to be picking in the Top 5". Bedard really not much more needs to be said, if you ended up with him it changes the entire course of your franchise for 15-20 years, but even Carlsson and Fantilli very likely give you the crown jewel #1 center that Blake was so desperately looking for with all those picks from 2017-2020. I don't think Will Smith is a 100% lock franchise 1C like the other guys, but it's certainly very possible he is that kind of player, and even if he's not he's still the highest ceiling prospect you have, and then you have Michkov who has the Kucherov type talent level who was an option to, the type of guy who can lead your team in scoring for a decade.

With as far out as draft years are projected, and with what the Kings should have known from watching their own guys play in the system it should have been painfully apparent that they lacked those couple of pre-req type of players you need to have to end the rebuild. That is what is just so frustrating with the awful decisions made by this management team. Not only do you miss out on being able to draft the generational superstar, or one of the other 4 franchise players in 2023, the need to add older players to appease Drew Doughty caused you to lose probably the best player the Kings have drafted since Doughty, and a guy who will probably be able to challenge for 25-35 goals a season.

Fiala is a fun player to watch, Danault has been a great leader and joy to watch, Gavrikov also. But these guys are short term fixes and the guys we lost out on either through trades or not finishing a proper rebuild and picking high are going to be NHL forces for another 10-15 years.

The thing is, even Lombardi had his misses, like Teubert and, for all intents and purposes, Hickey (he still became a regular NHLer).

Lombardi let his young players within the system take over and help define team culture, then traded additional players to supplement the holes on the team.

Trading his way back into playoff contention before their big prospects took over signaled the failure of a rebuild and narrowed the window of contention exponentially.

A core of Byfield, Vilardi, Clarke, Faber, Spence, Laferriere, Bjornfot, Anderson, Kupari, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Thomas, JAD, Turcotte, etc are all drafted under Blake's tenure. There was a lot of potential to work with. Various holes throughout the lineup. Not that ALL should have been kept, but considering trading any of them out for more help should have been done after this season - with Byfield, Clarke, Faber, Spence, etc stepping up.

Then yes, having players like Kopitar and Doughty providing insulation, leadership, and depth along the way could have helped set the team up long-term.

Unfortunately, the reverse is happening. The youth are being treated like depth players to the aging stars, and thus not having opportunity to blossom into their projected roles. Even with moving PLD to wing - Byfield just spent the equivalent learning and playing a different position because management needed him to provide more immediate results and to complement their vets. But now that another vet is underachieving, Byfield was moved to accommodate him.

This management is under the impression that all you need to do is make the playoffs. And it goes back to my belief - trading Kopitar and/or Doughty wouldn't have done any better. It would have been worse. Because instead of aging legends, the prospects would keep playing second fiddle to mediocre mercenaries. A vision would have included letting Kopitar and Doughty age gracefully out, giving rise to more empowered prospects. Instead we have management spinning their wheels to "win now" even though they never actually executed a rebuild.

 

[bland]

The thing is, even Lombardi had his misses, like Teubert and, for all intents and purposes, Hickey (he still became a regular NHLer).

Lombardi let his young players within the system take over and help define team culture, then traded additional players to supplement the holes on the team.

Trading his way back into playoff contention before their big prospects took over signaled the failure of a rebuild and narrowed the window of contention exponentially.

A core of Byfield, Vilardi, Clarke, Faber, Spence, Laferriere, Bjornfot, Anderson, Kupari, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Thomas, JAD, Turcotte, etc are all drafted under Blake's tenure. There was a lot of potential to work with. Various holes throughout the lineup. Not that ALL should have been kept, but considering trading any of them out for more help should have been done after this season - with Byfield, Clarke, Faber, Spence, etc stepping up.

Then yes, having players like Kopitar and Doughty providing insulation, leadership, and depth along the way could have helped set the team up long-term.

Unfortunately, the reverse is happening. The youth are being treated like depth players to the aging stars, and thus not having opportunity to blossom into their projected roles. Even with moving PLD to wing - Byfield just spent the equivalent learning and playing a different position because management needed him to provide more immediate results and to complement their vets. But now that another vet is underachieving, Byfield was moved to accommodate him.

This management is under the impression that all you need to do is make the playoffs. And it goes back to my belief - trading Kopitar and/or Doughty wouldn't have done any better. It would have been worse. Because instead of aging legends, the prospects would keep playing second fiddle to mediocre mercenaries. A vision would have included letting Kopitar and Doughty age gracefully out, giving rise to more empowered prospects. Instead we have management spinning their wheels to "win now" even though they never actually executed a rebuild.

Kopitar's 8 year extension prevented the Kings from ever truly bottoming out. Yeah, they inevitably played down to a couple of top 5 picks, but they never embraced it because they had a certain standard of quality in Anze.

Kopitar was that good, and oddly, unfortunately, too respected, to abandon hope. The whole reason I advocating trading him then was because that run was done and the cord HAD to be cut in order to move forward.

And yes, I was 100% right in that projection. Its exactly what happened. Too much respect, too much quality, too much hope to make the right calls.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Looks like Edmonton and Perry are connecting.

Kings better add some grit - Oilers will be rolling out Kane, Perry and Nurse and we have…..Englund.

 

[King'sPawn]

Czechia's hero goalie from the WJC also doing well in the AHL.

Was hoping they'd use a late pick on him. Then when he was passed altogether, would gave liked to see them sign him as a free agent. Instead, he joined Anaheim.

 

[lumbergh]

He offered him one game, in the Twin Cities and a year burned off his ELC. There were no guarantees he was going to make the Kings the next season. Faber and his ag....err "family advisor" made the very smart and forward thinking decision to return to the University of Minnesota and better grow as a player in a much better development environment in the Big 10 vs. the AHL. He continued to grow in that environment and was able to seamlessly jump right from the Big Ten to the Minnesota Wild's playoff lineup a few days after his NCAA season ended, without any stops in the AHL, (quick someone grab the defibilator for Muzz)

Let's be honest, we all know why he was offered the one game, it was to entice him to leave college because Rob Blake and his cronies believed that the AHL was a better development environment than the NCAA (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary). It was the same bill of goods they sold to Alex Turcotte and his advisors, except Faber and his people didn't bite and harm his development like Turcotte's did.

I'm just going with what's reported. I don't blame Faber at all for going back to college for another year. The rest is all conjecture. Faber had the opportunity, and we'll never know if he would have spent the year in the AHL.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It does contribute to the 'our way or the highway' perception of our management.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

It does contribute to the 'our way or the highway' perception of our management.

Too much ego. Maybe that’s a biproduft of having hall of fame management. It’s just the chip on their shoulders that get in their way!

 

[Herby]

It does contribute to the 'our way or the highway' perception of our management.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in these meetings these guys have. Take Faber, the Kings obviously wanted him in the AHL asap (just like with Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kupari, Byfield, Helenius and on and on). Do you think there is any awareness by now with these guys that they are asking themselves "wow look at Faber, went back to school and straight to the show and is a plug and play star" do you think what happened with Faber, and how they butchered Turcotte and Bjornfot's development that there is any second guessing their strategy at this point?

You would think there would be, but with these clowns, I really don't know. Is Glen Murray even following what is going on around the rest of the league and how players are developed into stars in a timely manner? The McDavid comment on Jesse's podcast (I believe it was ATKM, but may have been to Pravda), this is the man who is charge of development for this team, and he has no idea that there are literally dozens and dozens of players all over the league who never stepped foot in the AHL? Yannetti atleast knows it's going on elsewhere, but in his make believe trip to fantasyland with Hoven last summer he took shots at other teams who have done a better job at developing high end players than the Kings have. But it sounded like someone that no matter what evidence is presented in front of him is going to take it to the grave that they are smarter than everyone else in the league despite their dreadful results at integrating high end pieces into the lineup in a timely manner.

 

[Omni Owl]

Perry on EDM makes them more hateable than ever.

The Faber trade is still bothering me, even though Fiala has boosted our weak offense. A D or C will always have more value than wingers.

 

[YP44]

Explain. What would he do different there that he can't do here?

At least we'd get scoring from our pp2 QB.

Would be able to play without fear of being taken out or sat for every mistake. this allows players to grow,

Carter Hart on a Leave of Absence..I wonder if something is going to come out from the Team Canada stuff.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Carter Hart on a Leave of Absence..I wonder if something is going to come out from the Team Canada stuff.

Just saw that...wild

 

[King'sPawn]

Would be able to play without fear of being taken out or sat for every mistake. this allows players to grow,

Carter Hart on a Leave of Absence..I wonder if something is going to come out from the Team Canada stuff.

Main board doesn't want that speculation - I think it's a good policy to apply here, too.

 

[kingsfan28]

Perry on EDM makes them more hateable than ever.

The Faber trade is still bothering me, even though Fiala has boosted our weak offense. A D or C will always have more value than wingers.

While this is true, guys like Fiala are really hard to get, it's still a good trade for both. We've got over 100 points from him so far. That's really good. And we still have two damn good RHD , they just aren't getting the press. You also have to look at the deal in context. At the time [not today] we had 3 very good RHD, Clarke at the top, followed by Spence then Faber, with Walker, Roy and Doughty above them. Then Durzi breaks out. Too many RHD , only 2 future spots. One of those 3 was gonna be traded. Who know, they could've tried moving Spence in the deal.

 

[Reaper45]

Main board doesn't want that speculation - I think it's a good policy to apply here, too.

Well considering 5 of those players are turning themselves into the police today I think most can connect the dots.

 

[YP44]

Well considering 5 of those players are turning themselves into the police today I think most can connect the dots.

Does not have to be today. They just said they have given a time frame. could be months for all we know. Given it is NHL players the police probably set a June 30th date.

Hart for sure is involved, I think Formenton, but we will see who else is named. Some big players on there (makar, Thomas) but some less ones as well (clague, Foote).

edit: I wonder if why Sam Steel has bounced around a bit maybe his possible involvement.

Main board doesn't want that speculation - I think it's a good policy to apply here, too.

Fair, i think it's important to talk about and is a shame the players are not named. Why are we protecting the accused? If I was related to the victim i would be pissed the players are being protected.

If I was related to a player on that team that did not have involvement I would also be pissed, because until the names are released they will be linked.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Does not have to be today. They just said they have given a time frame. could be months for all we know. Given it is NHL players the police probably set a June 30th date.

Hart for sure is involved, I think Formenton, but we will see who else is named. Some big players on there (makar, Thomas) but some less ones as well (clague, Foote).

edit: I wonder if why Sam Steel has bounced around a bit maybe his possible involvement.


Fair, i think it's important to talk about and is a shame the players are not named. Why are we protecting the accused? If I was related to the victim i would be pissed the players are being protected.

If I was related to a player on that team that did not have involvement I would also be pissed, because until the names are released they will be linked.

As far as I can tell, the players haven’t been formally charged yet. If they haven’t been formally charged yet, there’s no one to name.

 

[kovacro]

Would be able to play without fear of being taken out or sat for every mistake. this allows players to grow,

Carter Hart on a Leave of Absence..I wonder if something is going to come out from the Team Canada stuff.

DD with the Flames who just went on leave who was the captain of that 2018 team. I'd think he could be one of the five.

 

[YP44]

DD with the Flames who just went on leave who was the captain of that 2018 team. I'd think he could be one of the five.

Didn't think he was on the team? Not sure why

 

[Bandit]

Gotta imagine the deadline for these guys is days, but it's the NHL so who knows.

 

[YP44]

Gotta imagine the deadline for these guys is days, but it's the NHL so who knows.

You would think so but this is Canadian RCMP where everything takes ten years, and hockey players get away with a lot. Should not have taken this long for the police to look for the 5 to turn themselves in so they can press charges.

The NHL is pretty bush league too. I have no doubt they asked the Utah guy to release his statement asking for expansion the same time as this story to try and bury it.

 

[Bandit]

You would think so but this is Canadian RCMP where everything takes ten years, and hockey players get away with a lot. Should not have taken this long for the police to look for the 5 to turn themselves in so they can press charges.

The NHL is pretty bush league too. I have no doubt they asked the Utah guy to release his statement asking for expansion the same time as this story to try and bury it.

yup, nothing would surprise me honestly.

 

[kovacro]

I think Formenton, but we will see who else is named. Some big players on there (makar, Thomas) but some less ones as well (clague, Foote).

Granted a leave of absence by his Swiss team. You may be on to something there.

I'd look to NJ. Apparently a few guys conspicuous by their absence at a function and team practice this AM.