Around the league part 2

[ru4reals]

Athletic 2020 re-draft:

1. Tim Stützle, C (Senators, No. 3)
2. Jake Sanderson, D (Senators, No. 5)
3. Anton Lundell, C (Panthers, No. 12)
4. Alexander Nikishin, D (Hurricanes, No. 69)
5. Lucas Raymond, LW (Red Wings, No. 4)
6. Jack Quinn, RW (Sabres, No. 8)
7. Dawson Mercer, C (Devils, No. 18)
8. Alexis Lafrenière, LW (Rangers, No. 1)
9. Quinton Byfield, C (Kings, No. 2)
10. Jamie Drysdale, D (Ducks, No. 6)
11. Seth Jarvis, RW (Hurricanes, No. 13)

24. Brock Faber, D (Kings, No. 45)
55. Alex Laferriere, RW (Kings, No. 83)
62. Helge Grans, D (Kings, No. 35)
76. Martin Chromiak, RW (Kings, No. 128)
78. Aatu Jamsen, LW (Kings, No. 190)

Re-drafting the NHL class of 2020: Stützle goes No. 1, Nikishin rises dramatically

Corey Pronman re-ranks the top prospects from the NHL Draft class of 2020.

theathletic.com

We all know how good Stutzle is but Sanderson is an absolute stud. He's going to be real good. That Senator team with Tkachuk, Stutzle and company is going to be a beast for many years to come.

 

[Herby]

I always had Laf behind Byfield and Stutzle. I had Byfield at #1 and was worried the Rangers would suddenly realize how bad the QMJHL is.

My concern with QB has been how he was developed and the significant setbacks he had. They’ve not helped his confidence and mindset at all IMO, but I do think he’s still young enough that his ceiling shouldn’t be hit too badly as long as they keep trusting in him and let him makes mistakes. There weren’t any franchise players in that draft. Elite? maybe but no more than that. I agree QB will at least be a good top 6 player and his upside is a first line player IMO but it’s unclear in what position long term. I agree on Turcotte, he can be a good middle six guy but they need to integrate him this year for that to happen.

I think Stutzle is certainly a franchise player. Guys who produce like he did in their first 3 seasons after being drafted almost always end up being one. Not generational like McDavid or Crosby, but I think you can win a SC with him as your best player.

I’m guessing Laf is just one of those guys who peaked earlier than most (feel the same about Turcotte). Most guys get a lot better between 17 and 21, and the ones who don’t just aren’t going to live up to the draft capital used on them.

I’d take QB over Laf at this point, but Stutzle and Sanderson are the easy 1-2 for me.

 

[johnjm22]

It's gotta be pretty rare when one team gets the two best players in the entire draft.

 

[ru4reals]

Watching the Pens and Caps get their a**es whooped have been fun.

 

[King'sPawn]

Watching the Pens and Caps get their a**es whooped have been fun.

Capitals are another team that's doing stuff for the benefit of their star player instead of what's best for the team. They care more about having Ovechkin break Gretzky's goal record than anything else.

 

[ru4reals]

I think Stutzle is certainly a franchise player. Guys who produce like he did in their first 3 seasons after being drafted almost always end up being one. Not generational like McDavid or Crosby, but I think you can win a SC with him as your best player.

I’m guessing Laf is just one of those guys who peaked earlier than most (feel the same about Turcotte). Most guys get a lot better between 17 and 21, and the ones who don’t just aren’t going to live up to the draft capital used on them.

I’d take QB over Laf at this point, but Stutzle and Sanderson are the easy 1-2 for me.

Sanderson with a wicked wrister to make it 6-1. Points in 3 straight. Runs the first unit powerplay as a second year player in that draft. Kid is a monster already. as johnjm22 said crazy how the Sens got both of the two best players. Oh, and by the way only 3 assists for Stutzle.

 

[Herby]

Ottawa is like a younger, more upside version of the Kings. They are loaded up front and now they get Norris back (2 goals already in his debut), it’s an embarrassment of young riches. I hate their goaltending though, big issue just like the Kings.

Stutzle (21)
Tkachuk (24)
Sanderson (21)
Norris (24)
Batherson (25)
Chychrun (25)

I assume they eventually work things out with Pinto (22)

This is what I think many envisioned when the Kings embarked on their rebuild in 2018. To have young talent like this.

 

[johnjm22]

1999 Vancouver got both Sedins. That's the only other time I can think of a team getting the two best players in a single draft.

I'm not sure a team has ever gotten the best forward and the best dman in a single draft before.

 

[ru4reals]

Ottawa is like a younger, more upside version of the Kings. They are loaded up front and now they get Norris back (2 goals already in his debut), it’s an embarrassment of young riches. I hate their goaltending though, big issue just like the Kings.

Stutzle (21)
Tkachuk (24)
Sanderson (21)
Norris (24)
Batherson (25)
Chychrun (25)

I assume they eventually work things out with Pinto (22)

This is what I think many envisioned when the Kings embarked on their rebuild in 2018. To have young talent like this.

I remember on the main board after the 2019 or maybe it was the 2020 draft? There was the annual best prospect pool poll and the kings were ranked by many as top two or three along with the Sens and another team. I guess we all know who came on top with that ranking. I hate those prospect pool rankings and don't pay much attention to them but no doubt the Sens had the best farm, for most of the top end kids are already in the big show. All of those players except for Norris and Chychrun were drafted too and don't forget Chabot is only 26.

 

[ru4reals]

1999 Vancouver got both Sedins. That's the only other time I can think of a team getting the two best players in a single draft.

I'm not sure a team has ever gotten the best forward and the best dman in a single draft before.

Crosby and Letang in '05 might be the only other time. Crosby of course but not sure if there was another Dman in '05 better than Letang would have to do a little research.

 

[kingsfan28]

I remember on the main board after the 2019 or maybe it was the 2020 draft? There was the annual best prospect pool poll and the kings were ranked by many as top two or three along with the Sens and another team. I guess we all know who came on top with that ranking. I hate those prospect pool rankings and don't pay much attention to them but no doubt the Sens had the best farm, for most of the top end kids are already in the big show. All of those players except for Norris and Chychrun were drafted too and don't forget Chabot is only 26.

The SJ trade for Karlsson really didn't help them at all going forward. Lost a good player in Norris [ although injured a lot] and a top 3 pick, which turned out to be Stutzel. Still, OTT is completely capped out and can't even afford Pinto at 1 mil x1 .

 

[Fishhead]

The SJ trade for Karlsson really didn't help them at all going forward. Lost a good player in Norris [ although injured a lot] and a top 3 pick, which turned out to be Stutzel. Still, OTT is completely capped out and can't even afford Pinto at 1 mil x1 .

They did a fantastic job of assembling top young talent in the same age group that could grow as a core.

They did a terrible job of utilizing leverage to sign them to deals that would allow them to easily add pieces to put them over the hump in the future.

 

[kingsfan28]

They did a fantastic job of assembling top young talent in the same age group that could grow as a core.

They did a terrible job of utilizing leverage to sign them to deals that would allow them to easily add pieces to put them over the hump in the future.

Yeah, it's like... you get 8 mil and you get 8 mil, oh you want 8.3 sure why not. 5 guys making 8 mil plus.

 

[Herby]

Ottawa will be fine once the cap goes up over the next couple of years. Stutzle's cap hit is less than PLD's, he is probably going to be around a 100 point player for the life of his contract. Just like with Hughes, by the time these guys reach the halfway point of their deals they are going to be massive bargains compared to what similar players are signing for, same thing with Sanderson and Tkachuk. Norris I wasn't so sure on, if he's healthy he's going to score a ton of goals as his ability to find space and shoot the puck is undeniable, he just hasn't been able to stay healthy, even going back to before he was in the NHL.

But they check a lot of boxes

*Elite 1C (21 years old)
*Elite 1D (21 years old)
* Star winger Character/leadership/intangibles (24 years old)
* Championship caliber 2C (24 years old)
Young veteran defenders (26, 27 years old
Championship caliber 3C (22 years old)

All signed long-term. You have to assume Pinto eventually signs, and there is your championship caliber 3C as well. They have young veteran defenders that will still be in their prime once the window really opens up wide (next season probably). It really was a hell of a job accumulating talent over such a short period, remember Ottawa was literally 1 goal (Game 7 OT loss) from reaching the finals in 2017. Between then and the end of the 2020 draft (3 calendar years) Ottawa added all the names listed above except for the young veteran D (Chabot and Chychrun).

It reminds me a lot of the Kings previous rebuild, minus a goalie like Quick. Both teams added a bunch of really good young players over a short period (Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Schenn, Johnson, Simmonds, Voynov) all added between 2005 and 2009. The issue was scoring and they had to trade 3 of those pieces to address it in two trades. I'm guessing with Ottawa they may have to let go of one of those good young veteran D's who only have modified NTC's + maybe a guy like Batherson to fix that hole, lets be honest as long as the team isn't sending him to Winnipeg or Columbus or some terrible team, a lot of times the player will just waive to go to a contender or a major/desirable market.

Both teams had pretty good draft luck with the Sharks surprisingly being really bad in 2020 leading to Ottawa getting the #3 pick, and then also the scouting community failing to realize just how good Stutzle was, letting them to get the clear best player in the 2020 draft at #3. For the Kings in 2005 Kopitar somehow falling to #11 (likely because of where he was born), enabling the Kings to miraculously get the clear cut 2nd best player in the draft. I remember once reading an interview with Andy Murray and he said paraphrasing "we knew right away from the first scrimmage he was going to be a special player, had we been able to keep him over here, I think I may still be coaching the Kings." On the same day the above mentioned players were drafted they both also end up drafting homeruns in Quick and Sanderson.

I know it was being discussed earlier in this thread about alltime great duos from the same draft. Kopitar and Quick was certainly a massive franchise altering weekend for the Kings.

 

[KOPITARRULEZ11]

Alright whos in charge of redwings goal horn that influencer horn is really gonna get annoying quick.

 

[BaileyFan]

The SJ trade for Karlsson really didn't help them at all going forward. Lost a good player in Norris [ although injured a lot] and a top 3 pick, which turned out to be Stutzel. Still, OTT is completely capped out and can't even afford Pinto at 1 mil x1 .

Like Blake, Dorion tried to cash out early and go immediately into win now mode. DeBrincat turned into a big loss and Chychrun will be the same if they don't go on a run during the next 2 years of his deal. Add guys like Giroux, Korpisalo, Tarasenko etc. and it's an expensive roster for a bubble team. Still, all they really need to get better is to get older, their core is all young and signed long term.

 

[Kudelski37]

Crosby and Letang in '05 might be the only other time. Crosby of course but not sure if there was another Dman in '05 better than Letang would have to do a little research.

The Oilers drafted Coffey and Kurri in 1980. Murphy and Savard were the other hall of famers drafted that year. Honorable mention to Bernie Nicholls.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yet for all of that the Sens are capped out with a goaltending situation not much better than ours, their 'elite 3C' isn't even signed, and Chychrun and Norris are one sneeze away from retirement

I love what they've done--they've given money to the right players in such manner that the next few years should find them with some space to play with but let's not 'grass is greener' so hard, they have some problems that will appear in very short order, particularly should they hit ANY injury adversity (or goaltending shenanigans).

Now all that being said--it's extra damning that all the teams drafting around the same time as the Kings at the end of the decade are all on the verge of surpassing them on the backs of their young talent while the Kings get ready to saddle up old yeller.

 

[SmytheKing]

All this talk about the Senators and boy are we going to really hate how the Ducks are treating us over the next 5 years. They're absolutely loaded top to bottom. If they get a decent goalie, christ. Their top 6 and top 4 are going to be, arguably, the best in the league and I don't know that it will even be close.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

All this talk about the Senators and boy are we going to really hate how the Ducks are treating us over the next 5 years. They're absolutely loaded top to bottom. If they get a decent goalie, christ. Their top 6 and top 4 are going to be, arguably, the best in the league and I don't know that it will even be close.

Been hearing that for years now and they seem to get worse every season.

 

[Little Psycho]

All this talk about the Senators and boy are we going to really hate how the Ducks are treating us over the next 5 years. They're absolutely loaded top to bottom. If they get a decent goalie, christ. Their top 6 and top 4 are going to be, arguably, the best in the league and I don't know that it will even be close.

Doubt they’ll be able to keep all that talent especially with their internal cap. At some point their low ball offers will not work with their gen z.

 

[Statto]

I think Stutzle is certainly a franchise player. Guys who produce like he did in their first 3 seasons after being drafted almost always end up being one. Not generational like McDavid or Crosby, but I think you can win a SC with him as your best player.

I’m guessing Laf is just one of those guys who peaked earlier than most (feel the same about Turcotte). Most guys get a lot better between 17 and 21, and the ones who don’t just aren’t going to live up to the draft capital used on them.

I’d take QB over Laf at this point, but Stutzle and Sanderson are the easy 1-2 for me.

I use the traditional definition of franchise that most now call generational. I use a very high bar for the definitions and Stutzle doesn’t yet qualify for me. However McDavid isn’t generational for me either… he is more interested in points than wins. He hasn’t yet been the difference in a series the Oilers should have lost… they made hard work of us twice but they definitely should have beaten us. He’s a scorer, not a winner… yet.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I use the traditional definition of franchise that most now call generational. I use a very high bar for the definitions and Stutzle doesn’t yet qualify for me. However McDavid isn’t generational for me either… he is more interested in points than wins. He hasn’t yet been the difference in a series the Oilers should have lost… they made hard work of us twice but they definitely should have beaten us. He’s a scorer, not a winner… yet.

Meh, I disagree, there's not a single player ever, that can elevate a team to a Stanley Cup Winner status, by himself....McDavid is limited by what his team puts around him, he has generational talent, he's the best player in a 600plus player league etc....

It's like saying Marcel Dionne isn't a hall of famer because he never won a cup...

 

[Statto]

Meh, I disagree, there's not a single player ever, that can elevate a team to a Stanley Cup Winner status, by himself....McDavid is limited by what his team puts around him, he has generational talent, he's the best player in a 600plus player league etc....

It's like saying Marcel Dionne isn't a hall of famer because he never won a cup...

I never said by himself. However I look at the series vs Winnipeg a couple of years ago. The Oilers were the higher seeds and lost, a team led by a true generational player would have won that series, no doubt. He cherry picks in play-off games. In regular season games the Oilers are being outplayed he only seems to try when on the pp to get his points (Drai is really bad at that). So no, not generational for me. Best in the game? yes. generational? No. Hall of fame? No brainer.

I don’t need a cup for him to be generational but I need more. He needs to make his team over achieve in the playoffs… he hasn’t done that (see Gretzky in ‘93 as an example of generational form without actually winning). He may get there but he was anointed generational before he played a single game. Sorry but you need to earn it and points are not enough.

On average there should be a single generational player every 20-30 years (which is what a generation is) we have about 6-10 playing in the
game currently on most peoples definitions.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

I agree with GBH (somehow)

If you put mcdavid's exact production on a team with competent bottom 6, goaltending, and/or defense, they stroll to a cup and then suddenly he's a winner.