Around the league part 2

[YP44]

man, holloway crushed it in the SEL too

him, moller, bellemare, arvidsson, "the other" sebastian aho

would you believe oscar moller is still captaining that skelleftea team?

I thought we had something special with Moller.

 

[King'sPawn]

I thought we had something special with Moller.

Yeah. Moller was one they realized was pushed too soon. The Kings have seemingly overcorrected ever since.

 

[Bandit]

Yeah. Moller was one they realized was pushed too soon. The Kings have seemingly overcorrected ever since.

I dunno, Oscar had the attitude in spades but he was just too small to be effective in the NHL.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I dunno, Oscar had the attitude in spades but he was just too small to be effective in the NHL.

About all I remember.

 

[johnjm22]

Another fine product of the best goaltender development system in the NHL.

 

[King'sPawn]

Another fine product of the best goaltender development system in the NHL.

Few people have called the Kings the best, just that they do a good job.

How many teams do you think are better?

 

[johnjm22]

How many teams do you think are better?

15

 

[King'sPawn]

15

Pretty specific number. I take it you have a list?

 

[johnjm22]

Pretty specific number. I take it you have a list?

What I'm trying to say is that I think the Kings are average.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's been ages since this team drafted and developed a starting goaltender. Even if you include free agent prospects, the only one who checks that list is Martin Jones. Then you have guys like Scrivens and Campbell who are reclamation projects who did well here, but that still doesn't bode well for the scouting department that they can't find a prospect to draft to bring up internally. I think the last name to fit that category was in fact Bernier in 2006. That's bad.

 

[Fishhead]

It's been ages since this team drafted and developed a starting goaltender. Even if you include free agent prospects, the only one who checks that list is Martin Jones. Then you have guys like Scrivens and Campbell who are reclamation projects who did well here, but that still doesn't bode well for the scouting department that they can't find a prospect to draft to bring up internally. I think the last name to fit that category was in fact Bernier in 2006. That's bad.

A huge part of this is the complete lack of pressure to draft or develop a goalie because of Quick. Couple that with the fact that no good young goalie who had aspirations of starting would even consider coming here.

They started a few years ago trying to prepare with Campbell and Peterson, but that didn't work out. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward with the Quick era officially over, and whether or not they can duplicate those past successes.

 

[fivehole32]

A huge part of this is the complete lack of pressure to draft or develop a goalie because of Quick. Couple that with the fact that no good young goalie who had aspirations of starting would even consider coming here.

They started a few years ago trying to prepare with Campbell and Peterson, but that didn't work out. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward with the Quick era officially over, and whether or not they can duplicate those past successes.

Really good point, if the prospect doesn't see a path to start, why sign with that team.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Really good point, if the prospect doesn't see a path to start, why sign with that team.

Mark Yannetti has told us multiple times about the Kings attempting to acquire talented young goalies who looked at the Kings depth chart and said no.

I would love to know how many teams (since the 67 expansion) have drafted and developed franchise players (goalies or otherwise) and then while those players were still active, found their replacements and had a smooth transition from one era to another.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Mark Yannetti has told us multiple times about the Kings attempting to acquire talented young goalies who looked at the Kings depth chart and said no.

I would love to know how many teams (since the 67 expansion) have drafted and developed franchise players (goalies or otherwise) and then while those players were still active, found their replacements and had a smooth transition from one era to another.

If you want a recent example, the Rangers going from Lundqvist to Shesterkin, who was a 4th rounder in 2014, right after their Cup run. The Isles drafted another franchise goalie that same year with Ilya Sorokin in the 3rd round that same year.

The Penguins are an interesting case, going from Marc-Andre Fleury to Matt Murray (3rd round, 2012), then to Tristan Jarry (2nd round, 2013).

Another good example are the Preds, going from Pekka Rinne to Juuse Saros, who was a 4th round pick in 2013.

The interesting thing is how many of the goalies who would up being franchise pillars were drafted outside of the first round.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If you want a recent example, the Rangers going from Lundqvist to Shesterkin, who was a 4th rounder in 2014, right after their Cup run. The Isles drafted another franchise goalie that same year with Ilya Sorokin in the 3rd round that same year.

The Penguins are an interesting case, going from Marc-Andre Fleury to Matt Murray (3rd round, 2012), then to Tristan Jarry (2nd round, 2013).

Another good example are the Preds, going from Pekka Rinne to Juuse Saros, who was a 4th round pick in 2013.

The interesting thing is how many of the goalies who would up being franchise pillars were drafted outside of the first round.

And between Lundqvist and Shesterkin is 14 years, a handful of other goalies drafted in that time that did nothing, although two were Blackburn at #10, and Montoya at #6. Lundqvist didn't even see NHL ice until after both Blackburn and Montoya were selected. Then they drafted another goalie 60 picks ahead of Shesterkin.

Unless you're talking a top 10, if not 5 pick, there's no potential franchise player you know you're drafting.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And between Lundqvist and Shesterkin is 14 years, a handful of other goalies drafted in that time that did nothing, although two were Blackburn at #10, and Montoya at #6. Lundqvist didn't even see NHL ice until after both Blackburn and Montoya were selected. Then they drafted another goalie 60 picks ahead of Shesterkin.

Unless you're talking a top 10, if not 5 pick, there's no potential franchise player you know you're drafting.

That's also a reason why it's been mystifying as to why the team has for the large part avoided selecting goaltenders in the mid-rounds. Lot of nothing from North America, and the most promising European goalie they've drafted threw his career away.

 

[bmr]

It's been ages since this team drafted and developed a starting goaltender. Even if you include free agent prospects, the only one who checks that list is Martin Jones. Then you have guys like Scrivens and Campbell who are reclamation projects who did well here, but that still doesn't bode well for the scouting department that they can't find a prospect to draft to bring up internally. I think the last name to fit that category was in fact Bernier in 2006. That's bad.

I'm not a big fan of drafting goalies high up in the draft. I think it's more about finding goalies that have the compete level you're after, while also being very coachable. I felt that Ranford was a huge reason for the success of a lot of goalies in our system. I think it's important for team defense to be on point as well. While Quick and Petersen were brutal, having Durzi and not Gavrikov exposed our goalies to a lot more high percentage chances.

I believe Copley can do everything we need, while Talbot can do well enough in the backup role. We saw a large enough sample size with Copley last year to have some pretty good confidence in him. I think he will also benefit from having what I expect to be an-all around better defensive corps.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Mark Yannetti has told us multiple times about the Kings attempting to acquire talented young goalies who looked at the Kings depth chart and said no.

I would love to know how many teams (since the 67 expansion) have drafted and developed franchise players (goalies or otherwise) and then while those players were still active, found their replacements and had a smooth transition from one era to another.

What depth chart?

Also, Detroit seemed to do just that for years.

 

[kingsfan28]

I dunno, Oscar had the attitude in spades but he was just too small to be effective in the NHL.

pretty much. he was the Swedish bowling pin night after night. I can't remember any other King taking that kind of beating.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What depth chart?

Also, Detroit seemed to do just that for years.

Then...what happened? Seems like it's a thing that if you can do once, you can do over and over and over....again...

Tell me who was the D after Lidstrom? The C haver Datsyuk/Zetterberg?

 

[Brodeur]

If you want a recent example, the Rangers going from Lundqvist to Shesterkin, who was a 4th rounder in 2014, right after their Cup run. The Isles drafted another franchise goalie that same year with Ilya Sorokin in the 3rd round that same year.

The Penguins are an interesting case, going from Marc-Andre Fleury to Matt Murray (3rd round, 2012), then to Tristan Jarry (2nd round, 2013).

Another good example are the Preds, going from Pekka Rinne to Juuse Saros, who was a 4th round pick in 2013.

The interesting thing is how many of the goalies who would up being franchise pillars were drafted outside of the first round.

The first round goalie has been somewhat of a dodo in recent memory. The inherent problem is that most goalies will need D+5 before challenging for a starting gig at which point they might already be starting a big contract. So a team might not get the ELC benefit like with a F/D.

For 2014, I suggested Thatcher Demko as a possibility for the Devils late first. Virtually everybody on the Devils board wasn't fond of that idea (understandably) since our farm was trash and goalies take longer to develop. Team ended up drafting John Quenneville to unsexy results then used a high 2nd to draft Mackenzie Blackwood in 2015. But maybe that goes back to one of my pet peeves in people expecting a late first rounder to be a likely top 6 F / top 4 D.

On the topic of the Devils goaltending, I can't help but be reminded that Quebec won its division in 1994-95 with Stephane Fiset + Jocelyn Thibault in net and Dallas won the division in 1996-97 with Andy Moog + Arturs Irbe. Feels like there might need to be a Patrick Roy / Ed Belfour type move to make the next step.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Then...what happened? Seems like it's a thing that if you can do once, you can do over and over and over....again...

Tell me who was the D after Lidstrom? The C haver Datsyuk/Zetterberg?

Eventually the well runs dry and your moves stop paying off. But Detroit didn't stay good for 20 years on the backs of just a few guys.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Eventually the well runs dry and your moves stop paying off. But Detroit didn't stay good for 20 years on the backs of just a few guys.

No, they had the non-cap era...once the cap came in.....you can see the well start to dry up

 

[KingsFan7824]

That's also a reason why it's been mystifying as to why the team has for the large part avoided selecting goaltenders in the mid-rounds. Lot of nothing from North America, and the most promising European goalie they've drafted threw his career away.

They've selected 6 goalies in the 7 drafts since 2017. Plus Peterswn and now Portillo. You can say they suck at developing(and/or picking the wrong guy) but that's a new goalie in the system every year on average. At a position where it's either play or sit, with no in between.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

AT leaST the matt villalta experiment is finally over

The amount of time and resources spent on that guy blocking anyone else of a good shot when damn near everyone saw a neverending block of swiss cheese is a big shame in retrospect, though it's not like the others have availed themselves yet either.