Around the league part 2

[King'sPawn]

i am living thru this scenario right now, the corporation I work for has determined that AI is better suited to assigning/dispatching calls and leads than people are and is adamant against allowing us to adjust, so what we have is a non feeling numbers only decision maker pissing off clients and technicians all summer a real freaking headache but with that said it still hasn't done anything as dumb as going 1-3-1 while playing the best offensive machine in the league and up 3-0

Not gonna lie, I was half expecting you ending the post with "as there's a drive into deep left field by Castellanos and that'll be a home run. And so that'll make it a 4-0 ballgame."

 

[johnjm22]

So overall, you think luck/skill is a 50/50 split. But with the Kopitar pick in particular, it was 70/30 luck?

I can definitely agree that a player like Kopitar falling to #11 is historically unusual and therefore “lucky.”

Yes. There's no way to really quantify it exactly. I just say 50/50 assuming there must be some kind of balance in this universe.

Speaking of the 2005 draft, we also got Quick in the 3rd round. Since the whole draft was determined by lottery that year, a few bounces of the balls differently and we get neither Quick or Kopitar.

Yeah I mean maybe I'm being too harsh here and maybe it's just semantics, but I don't like the way this is presented because it has all the feel of the "Well what's he SUPPOSED to do?" that sentiments that actually have 3-4 easier, clearer answers at the least.

if the vast majority of the kids bust, that's not just bad luck.
If you get bent over for an LHD in a trade at the deadline, that's not just bad luck, that's insanely poor planning.
If you have to go out and rebuild the goaltending pipeline in one summer and end up with two journeymen in their 30s on a team with 2nd round aspirations, that's not just bad luck.

There are plenty of butterfly effect things here that aren't just circumstance, they're the end result of a lack of foresight and contingencies.

I just think this is the wrong way to even look at it.

It's not about the minutiae; this signing, or that trade, or that draft pick, or how many games a prospect played in the AHL.

It's about DIRECTION. The big picture. What direction is the organizational ship headed in?

If the direction is WIN NOW, I would actually say Blake has done about as decent of a job as you could reasonably expect the past 3 off seasons.

The criticism is whether or not LA should be going in the win now direction at all, and how much blame RB should get for that.

If Blake were in Yzerman's shoes during the Tampa years, I assume Rob would have had similar results.

 

[FSL KINGS]

There is no chance or luck, just the Hockey Gods getting out hopes up just to crash them down so they can laugh at us. The only hope is that all 31 other teams angered the Hockey Gods more than your team. Don't play soft or timid because you will not be rewarded with a seat in the great hall.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Not in the 'Around the league'... but you know, it's around the league.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Yeah I mean maybe I'm being too harsh here and maybe it's just semantics, but I don't like the way this is presented because it has all the feel of the "Well what's he SUPPOSED to do?" that sentiments that actually have 3-4 easier, clearer answers at the least.

if the vast majority of the kids bust, that's not just bad luck.
If you get bent over for an LHD in a trade at the deadline, that's not just bad luck, that's insanely poor planning.
If you have to go out and rebuild the goaltending pipeline in one summer and end up with two journeymen in their 30s on a team with 2nd round aspirations, that's not just bad luck.

There are plenty of butterfly effect things here that aren't just circumstance, they're the end result of a lack of foresight and contingencies.

100% agree with this.

I also agree that there is some degree of variance and random chance with anything in life. But at a certain point we have to dispense with it as an excuse when judging people who are paid to perform in a position that requires skill.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

100% agree with this.

I also agree that there is some degree of variance and random chance with anything in life. But at a certain point we have to dispense with it as an excuse when judging people who are paid to perform in a position that requires skill.

Absolutely.

And like I was saying to @johnjm22 above--it's not really his fault I have this reaction to what he's saying. We're just going two directions with the idea. I just cringe when I hear it because of recent conversations pardoning Blake's every result because the actions 'made sense'. I can accept that, generally speaking, GMing is about being able to attain some projectable range of results on your actions, and though sometimes things will happen that are unforeseen that put a dent in even the best laid plans, the best GMs mitigate one event snowballing into 3-4-5.

 

[BringTheReign]

Honest question: when was the last time Blake signed or traded for some cheap under the radar WAR player like this? Has he ever?

I’d argue he’s done this quite a bit even if they didn’t last more than a season. Moore, Maatta in his last year here, Edler in his first year, Arvidsson coming off injuries, plus the shrewd “free” signings of Iafallo and Lizotte as college FAs. Our pro shooting is typically well above average (Gavrikov is another example of that). It’s our amateur scouting of forwards that needs work.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Anaheim having both Gudas and Lyubushkin on the same team will be annoying I'm sure.

 

[bland]

I’d argue he’s done this quite a bit even if they didn’t last more than a season. Moore, Maatta in his last year here, Edler in his first year, Arvidsson coming off injuries, plus the shrewd “free” signings of Iafallo and Lizotte as college FAs. Our pro shooting is typically well above average (Gavrikov is another example of that). It’s our amateur scouting of forwards that needs work.

The scouting is fine. The problem here is the business model. Making potentially franchise changing prospects alter their games is the issue. Its easy to overspend on the middle of your roster if you clear out your cap. The top tier players here are too old and just moderately effective, the young players lack confidence and haven't taken ownership of their roles yet. Its the middle of the roster that has them as playoff contenders before failing due to the problems on both ends.

Blake has done just fine at the easy stuff. But the roster shaping, changing the leadership in the room, and the integration of talented young players - moves that require timing and assertiveness - have all been failures. Its just a mediocre team, capped out and unable to ice a full lineup.

 

[ZJames]

Not in the 'Around the league'... but you know, it's around the league.

Always great to see goalie fights. I wish we'd see it a little more in the NHL.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[DAkings20]

 

[tny760]

love the "uhh ackshully you shouldn't touch the cup" comments in that thread

clueless

 

[johnjm22]

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They also signed Trent Hunter that same summer. Two building blocks for a championship team.

 

[King'sPawn]

They also signed Trent Hunter that same summer. Two building blocks for a championship team.

Pretty weird how that all played out. Bud Holloway was the next prospect to get a call up, per Lombardi. But then Lombardi signed Moreau and Hunter for depth. Holloway, thinking the signing indicated that he wasn't going to be given a chance, then left North America to play overseas. I still remember Lombardi's pissed look as he literally said he would have been the first call up.

With Hunter and Moreau both flaming out quickly, and with Holloway leaving overseas, that paved the way for King and Nolan to get their call ups, and thus the Kings winning their first cup.

Seems like so long ago when underachieving vets were moved around to make way for prospects, instead of having the plan be "wait until they're injured."

 

[KingsHockey24]

Remind me what happened to Moreau and Hunter. They weren't traded right? Were they waived?

 

[tny760]

man, holloway crushed it in the SEL too

him, moller, bellemare, arvidsson, "the other" sebastian aho

would you believe oscar moller is still captaining that skelleftea team?

 

[bland]

They also signed Trent Hunter that same summer. Two building blocks for a championship team.

They were exactly what was needed for that Terry Murray team, but both guys were done due to injuries.

 

[King'sPawn]

Remind me what happened to Moreau and Hunter. They weren't traded right? Were they waived?

Injuries eventually led to them being waived.

 

[Trash Panda]

They were exactly what was needed for that Terry Murray team, but both guys were done due to injuries.

That Terry Murray team needed the 4 years younger versions of both those players, and the re-tread attempt with them was poorly timed at best.

 

[johnjm22]

They were exactly what was needed for that Terry Murray team, but both guys were done due to injuries.

Then they weren't what we needed.

 

[bland]

Then they weren't what we needed.

Yes, they were. They replaced both with similar players in King and Nolan to fill the same style of play needed in the bottom six wings to fill the required Terry Murray "dump the pick in, win the battle, get it back to the point and head to the net for traffic and rebounds, rinse repeat" hockey.

 

[johnjm22]

Yes, they were. They replaced both with similar players in King and Nolan to fill the same style of play needed in the bottom six wings to fill the required Terry Murray "dump the pick in, win the battle, get it back to the point and head to the net for traffic and rebounds, rinse repeat" hockey.

No. They weren't.

Both players were ineffective and retired.

 

[Choralone]

love the "uhh ackshully you shouldn't touch the cup" comments in that thread

clueless

f***ing morons.