Around the league part 2

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King'sPawn

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Jul 1, 2003
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It's honestly laughable how pedestrian the Rangers are compared to other teams, considering they have had a first overall pick (which they shouldn't have been eligible for, considering they participated in a "postseason"), a second overall pick, a top free agent wanting to sign in a big market (Panarin), a top defensive prospect wanting to play at home (Fox), and acting like they have the second coming of Roy with Shesterkin.
 
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SettlementRichie10

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May 6, 2012
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Wow, big trade.

It's honestly laughable how pedestrian the Rangers are compared to other teams, considering they have had a first overall pick (which they shouldn't have been eligible for, considering they participated in a "postseason"), a second overall pick, a top free agent wanting to sign in a big market (Panarin), a top defensive prospect wanting to play at home (Fox), and acting like they have the second coming of Roy with Shesterkin.

To be fair, the Kings don’t look great in that department either considering they’ve had a 2nd overall pick, a 5th overall pick, and just landed a top 10-15 winger in the league for futures.
 

Herby

How could Blake have known?
Feb 27, 2002
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The Rangers are trying to contend and once again have to look outside the organization to try and find offense due to the continued disappointing play of their big 2 picks.

When you have a 2OA and a 1OA in back to back years you should expect at least one of them to be a difference maker by now.
 

Docgonzo

Triple Crown Line
Jan 9, 2010
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If there isn’t more added, I like this trade helping set the market for the Kings. Tarasenko @50% and Mikkola for a Blais, 1st, 4th and a prospect (which doesn’t seem to be a top prospect, could be mistaken) seems underwhelming since that 1st is likely late round.
 

Docgonzo

Triple Crown Line
Jan 9, 2010
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Lol, condition on the 1st. Latest of the two first picks the Rangers own, theirs and Dallas. Man that could end up like late late 20s.
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Wow, big trade.



To be fair, the Kings don’t look great in that department either considering they’ve had a 2nd overall pick, a 5th overall pick, and just landed a top 10-15 winger in the league for futures.
The only thing the Kings have had that's equivalent is a second overall pick. The first overall pick was with a lottery they shouldn't have been part of. Panarin was a free agent. Fox had minimal value since he didn't want to sign with Carolina.

I'm not saying the Kings are doing great, either, but they paid a premium for Fiala.
 
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Gjwrams

A Know Nothing Fool
Mar 4, 2019
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The only thing the Kings have had that's equivalent is a second overall pick. The first overall pick was with a lottery they shouldn't have been part of. Panarin was a free agent. Fox had minimal value since he didn't want to sign with Carolina.

I'm not saying the Kings are doing great, either, but they paid a premium for Fiala.
Did they? a number 19 pick (Ohgren), who isn't even playing SHL yet and Faber, who we all think will be good, but don't know for 100% certainty. Fiala is in his absolute prime right now.
 

King'sPawn

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Did they? a number 19 pick (Ohgren), who isn't even playing SHL yet and Faber, who we all think will be good, but don't know for 100% certainty. Fiala is in his absolute prime right now.
Faber was one of LA's top prospects and an olympian at 19 years old.

Yes, he may not pan out, but for how quickly he's grown it was a huge asking price.
 
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bland

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
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Did they? a number 19 pick (Ohgren), who isn't even playing SHL yet and Faber, who we all think will be good, but don't know for 100% certainty. Fiala is in his absolute prime right now.
Yes, the Kings paid through the nose to get Fiala.
 

Telos

In Byfield We Must Trust
Aug 16, 2008
33,064
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Yes, the Kings paid through the nose to get Fiala.
They acquired an elite PPG winger, the best winger they've had in forever, who was 25 years old and signed to a very reasonable 7-year deal for a 1st + a prospect. I bet if you offered a mid-late 1st + a mid-tier prospect we used a 2nd on to anyone else for a PPG 25-year-old player you'd get laughed at and mocked.

I like Faber, but I think people are really overestimating his potential in the deal. Not to mention, the Kings absolutely smashed the value they could have gotten for him, especially given what we know about his situation and who he desired to play for and where he desired to live.

I would do the deal again even if I had to pay more...
 

KingsHockey24

Registered User
Aug 1, 2013
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A relatively small return for Tarasenko w/ 50% retention IMO. Even if he's not having a great year.

He had a NTC, which may have limited his value.
STL got what they could for him; odds are he was walking in the Summer anyways.
 

All The Kings Men

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Apr 7, 2016
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The Rangers are trying to contend and once again have to look outside the organization to try and find offense due to the continued disappointing play of their big 2 picks.

When you have a 2OA and a 1OA in back to back years you should expect at least one of them to be a difference maker by now.
but why?

Anytime I see the word "Should" I instantly want to know "why"... let's say the Rangers win the Cup this year. Or next.

What happens to that "should"?
 

AbsentMojo

F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
Apr 18, 2018
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They acquired an elite PPG winger, the best winger they've had in forever, who was 25 years old and signed to a very reasonable 7-year deal for a 1st + a prospect. I bet if you offered a mid-late 1st + a mid-tier prospect we used a 2nd on to anyone else for a PPG 25-year-old player you'd get laughed at and mocked.

I like Faber, but I think people are really overestimating his potential in the deal. Not to mention, the Kings absolutely smashed the value they could have gotten for him, especially given what we know about his situation and who he desired to play for and where he desired to live.

I would do the deal again even if I had to pay more...
This is like the 10th iteration of the same conversation... not that theres anything wrong with that, just pointing it out....maybe we need a poll to see what the breakdown is.. probably 100 to 1 in favor is my guess.
 
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King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
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They acquired an elite PPG winger, the best winger they've had in forever, who was 25 years old and signed to a very reasonable 7-year deal for a 1st + a prospect. I bet if you offered a mid-late 1st + a mid-tier prospect we used a 2nd on to anyone else for a PPG 25-year-old player you'd get laughed at and mocked.

I like Faber, but I think people are really overestimating his potential in the deal. Not to mention, the Kings absolutely smashed the value they could have gotten for him, especially given what we know about his situation and who he desired to play for and where he desired to live.

I would do the deal again even if I had to pay more...
They acquired a winger who has surpassed the point-per-game mark once in his career. Prior to that, in 337 games, he's scored 198 points. Obviously, he should be better more recently, but there was no guarantee he would uphold his scoring rate.

If someone offered you a mid 1st + a prospect whose value has jumped to a first round pick for Kempe, wouldn't you think you've got a Kings' ransom?

Even so, scoring is up league-wide and he's tied for 23rd in scoring despite playing more games than most.

Unfortunately, because the Kings are so offensively starved, we're clinging to sexy numbers.
 
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AbsentMojo

F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
Apr 18, 2018
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They acquired a winger who has surpassed the point-per-game mark once in his career. Prior to that, in 337 games, he's scored 198 points. Obviously, he should be better more recently, but there was no guarantee he would uphold his scoring rate.

If someone offered you a mid 1st + a prospect whose value has jumped to a first round pick for Kempe, wouldn't you think you've got a Kings' ransom?

Even so, scoring is up league-wide and he's tied for 23rd in scoring despite playing more games than most.

Unfortunately, because the Kings are so offensively starved, we're clinging to sexy numbers.
Ive pointed this out a few times not sure it stuck because no one mentions this... part of the value was getting performance from the asset NOW vs down the road..When would Faber (theoretically signed) and the 1st start to contribute? Prob after the window Blake is shooting for... thats part of the value not just the asssets that swapped hands.
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Ive pointed this out a few times not sure it stuck because no one mentions this... part of the value was getting performance from the asset NOW vs down the road..When would Faber (theoretically signed) and the 1st start to contribute? Prob after the window Blake is shooting for... thats part of the value not just the asssets that swapped hands.
That's fair and I agree - there's certainly a value to getting immediate production now, which leads to the discussion of whether or not the more immediate window is the best choice (but I don't want to derail the thread anymore than I have. Always willing to talk about it in DMs too, if you'd like!)

The point is, in my opinion, all things considered, Faber's value was traded at a very high point, and the 1st + Faber the Kings traded is much bigger value than the assets New York traded away to get Panarin and Fox, who were essentially free assets.
 
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Telos

In Byfield We Must Trust
Aug 16, 2008
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They acquired a winger who has surpassed the point-per-game mark once in his career. Prior to that, in 337 games, he's scored 198 points. Obviously, he should be better more recently, but there was no guarantee he would uphold his scoring rate.

If someone offered you a mid 1st + a prospect whose value has jumped to a first round pick for Kempe, wouldn't you think you've got a Kings' ransom?

Even so, scoring is up league-wide and he's tied for 23rd in scoring despite playing more games than most.

Unfortunately, because the Kings are so offensively starved, we're clinging to sexy numbers.
Sure, but he has at least shown so far that he is capable of maintaining that pace this season and making any line he is on and any player he plays with significantly better. At the time of the trade, he was a forward that put up 85 points and played all 82 games. On that value high, we still got him for a 1st + a prospect. The value looks very good where we are standing now. Will it always be that way? Time will tell. But, for right now, while they're free to do so, I don't see how anyone can question the deal in any logical way.

Kempe is 54 points in 78 games and I would argue that he would be worth a 1st + a mid to upper-tier prospect. Though, even then, the Kings can't take it because they wouldn't trade a 26-year-old 35-goal scorer for futures when they're trying to compete (which I know you're not stating).

Blake has definitely reached the critical juncture in his managing career where he needs to choose if the Kings are going to try to compete now with the current core and hopes the prospects figure it out on their own or if we are going to take a step back and continue to retool and move the spotlight a little more toward the youth to carry the torch and maybe compete in a few years. I don't think he can continue to be in the middle here where he is mainly aiming at getting them into just making the playoffs range without pulling the trigger and waiting around hoping something becomes available for them developmental and trade-wise. He is going to have to force something to happen here soon otherwise his job should be in jeopardy if the team remains treading water. I can't think ownership would be thrilled, Kopi and Doughty definitely didn't sign up for that, and the prospects will sooner or later mutiny and seek out another team ASAP.
 

AbsentMojo

F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
Apr 18, 2018
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That's fair and I agree - there's certainly a value to getting immediate production now, which leads to the discussion of whether or not the more immediate window is the best choice (but I don't want to derail the thread anymore than I have. Always willing to talk about it in DMs too, if you'd like!)

The point is, in my opinion, all things considered, Faber's value was traded at a very high point, and the 1st + Faber the Kings traded is much bigger value than the assets New York traded away to get Panarin and Fox, who were essentially free assets.
Agree that the Kings didnt pickpocket Minne.. they gave away alot to get Fiala. I dont think Blake wanted to gamble on the FA market (clearly he felt the need for scoring) so he paid the price to lock in someone he wanted at the term he was comfortable with. I didnt like the trade at first I could dig up my posts complaining there are bigger holes to fill and there not enough spots within the top 9 for developing players to fill... Im not sure how he came to the conclusion it was the right move.. since he took up so much cap he couldnt re-sign someone like Maata to plug the holes on LD and G. Edit: and goalie I think his head was in the sand re Petersen and JQ being suitable for the season.
 
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