Around the league part 2

[bland]

This is like the 10th iteration of the same conversation... not that theres anything wrong with that, just pointing it out....maybe we need a poll to see what the breakdown is.. probably 100 to 1 in favor is my guess.

Do it and pin it. You can get a loooooooong list of posters who care more about highlights than winning and have no ability to project out beyond the next game.

I couldn't care less how many goals the Kings score this year, it doesn't mean a damn thing. I care about the health of the franchise and its ability to get back to championship contention. You don't get there by adding great players to unprepared teams that aren't ready to contend and hoping the rest of the roster grows up to their level.

It never works. All you would achieve is creating a list of posters who either prioritize exciting hockey or didn't pay much attention to the history of this team or the successful organizations around the league.

Fiala would be a hell of an addition if the kids were a few years ahead of this mismanaged path. But they aren't, so the best move would be to have waited for the right time because Fiala's production is available every summer - instead Blake took an offer that fell into his lap instead of waiting for the right time. That is the kind of weak executive he has proven to be time and again.

Just like he did with Danault the year before. Two excellent players who will be out of their prime and financial albatrosses when Byfield and Clarke have taken over for Kopitar and Doughty, if that happens. And we better hope that does happen because if they don't its guaranteed mediocrity. If they had waited they could use that space on players in their prime at the time without $14 million in 30+s. Of course, the kids here haven't been primed for those spots yet, so its going to take even longer than that should have.

 

[bland]

And I should add that there are any number of reasons why we are Kings fans. If games that are more exciting than the previous years is what you want, more power to you. I won't tell you that you are wrong - just don't try to argue that this trade has taken this team any closer to contention. There is no credible argument for that.

 

[bland]

Ive pointed this out a few times not sure it stuck because no one mentions this... part of the value was getting performance from the asset NOW vs down the road..When would Faber (theoretically signed) and the 1st start to contribute? Prob after the window Blake is shooting for... thats part of the value not just the asssets that swapped hands.

What window though?

Its just more likely that Kopitar and Doughty are a year or two away from the way Brown and Quick fell off of their cliffs than maintaining this kind of quality, but consider that even right now Kopitar is in the bottom third of top line centers in the league.

The kids haven't been handled in a manner that they could be ready to assume those roles, much less at a playoff caliber. That is going to take years of experience and they are barely taking their NHL baby steps now.

No goaltending, a minor league defensive structure, a poorly constructed roster... Hell, this team may not even make the playoffs this year. What possible window are you talking about?

 

[AbsentMojo]

What window though?

Its just more likely that Kopitar and Doughty are a year or two away from the way Brown and Quick fell off of their cliffs than maintaining this kind of quality, but consider that even right now Kopitar is in the bottom third of top line centers in the league.

The kids haven't been handled in a manner that they could be ready to assume those roles, much less at a playoff caliber. That is going to take years of experience and they are barely taking their NHL baby steps now.

No goaltending, a minor league defensive structure, a poorly constructed roster... Hell, this team may not even make the playoffs this year. What possible window are you talking about?

The window is in Blake's mind and its now through prob next 5 years. I wouldve prefered to see the money spent on D and Goalie..and let Vilardi, Kaliyev and whoever work into the top 6. But, now that the move has been made, its clear the value is there w Fiala - and the true assessment cant be done for years anyway. If Blake does the obvious things like retool the 2nd and 3rd pairings.. and gets at least decent goaltender, its not a clusterf*** (this implies moving a forward or 2). Thats my point - that the sky isnt falling because of the Fiala trade.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Do it and pin it. You can get a loooooooong list of posters who care more about highlights than winning and have no ability to project out beyond the next game.

I couldn't care less how many goals the Kings score this year, it doesn't mean a damn thing. I care about the health of the franchise and its ability to get back to championship contention. You don't get there by adding great players to unprepared teams that aren't ready to contend and hoping the rest of the roster grows up to their level.

It never works. All you would achieve is creating a list of posters who either prioritize exciting hockey or didn't pay much attention to the history of this team or the successful organizations around the league.

Fiala would be a hell of an addition if the kids were a few years ahead of this mismanaged path. But they aren't, so the best move would be to have waited for the right time because Fiala's production is available every summer - instead Blake took an offer that fell into his lap instead of waiting for the right time. That is the kind of weak executive he has proven to be time and again.

Just like he did with Danault the year before. Two excellent players who will be out of their prime and financial albatrosses when Byfield and Clarke have taken over for Kopitar and Doughty, if that happens. And we better hope that does happen because if they don't its guaranteed mediocrity. If they had waited they could use that space on players in their prime at the time without $14 million in 30+s. Of course, the kids here haven't been primed for those spots yet, so its going to take even longer than that should have.

Getting Fiala would logically mean that Blake is going to move assets for ready now players (which is what the Fiala trade is).. ie. he's short circuited the rebuild.. now if he decides to back off of that - 100% Fiala trade is a disaster because its the half rebuild half develop - black hole problem. You are arguing the strategy is flawed in general... which I agree with because in the cap era its very hard to trade/UFA your way into contention. I think he is realizing that with his inability to plug holes on D and G this year. He can still recover if he lets go of some of his signed forward like AI and RV, lets Byfield, Kaliyev and Vilardi populate the top 6 at more affordable rates on some bridge contracts - you then you have enough cap to plug the holes on D and G.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Getting Fiala would logically mean that Blake is going to move assets for ready now players (which is what the Fiala trade is).. ie. he's short circuited the rebuild..

UNLESS you choose to believe what he said (not necessarily true) and that the fact that Fiala became available was an opportunity he believed was too valuable to pass on.

Between the Wild needing to move salary, Fiala only being willing to sign an extension in specific markets and the Kings not only being one of those markets but ALSO possessing the assets to make the trade palatable for the Wild... I am fully prepared to believe this was opportunity management and less than plan short circuting.

But I don't know that for sure.

now if he decides to back off of that - 100% Fiala trade is a disaster because its the half rebuild half develop - black hole problem. You are arguing the strategy is flawed in general... which I agree with because in the cap era its very hard to trade/UFA your way into contention. I think he is realizing that with his inability to plug holes on D and G this year. He can still recover if he lets go of some of his signed forward like AI and RV, lets Byfield, Kaliyev and Vilardi populate the top 6 at more affordable rates on some bridge contracts - you then you have enough cap to plug the holes on D and G.

The true measure of the trade will be this...

planned or spontaneous, the acquisition fundamentally alters the makeup of the franchise. Can and will the management group be able to adapt "the plan" to the new reality and make something competitive out of the new combination of players?

 

[AbsentMojo]

UNLESS you choose to believe what he said (not necessarily true) and that the fact that Fiala became available was an opportunity he believed was too valuable to pass on.

Between the Wild needing to move salary, Fiala only being willing to sign an extension in specific markets and the Kings not only being one of those markets but ALSO possessing the assets to make the trade palatable for the Wild... I am fully prepared to believe this was opportunity management and less than plan short circuting.

But I don't know that for sure.

The true measure of the trade will be this...

planned or spontaneous, the acquisition fundamentally alters the makeup of the franchise. Can and will the management group be able to adapt "the plan" to the new reality and make something competitive out of the new combination of players?

I have no problem believing thats how it happened.. and you summarized well what it implies: the sweet spot is now + 4/5 years which means he has a lot of work to do to get the roster into contender status

 

[Steve Zissou]

Woah Rangers add Tarasenko and Nikkola.

 

[kingsholygrail]

How is acquiring Fiala a win now move? He's only 26.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Gets traded then almost immediately scores against them. Ouch.

 

[Docgonzo]

Thompson of Vegas had to helped off the ice tonight, possibly another team in look for a goaltender.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Thompson of Vegas had to helped off the ice tonight, possibly another team in look for a goaltender.

I hope they trade for Demko.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Do it and pin it. You can get a loooooooong list of posters who care more about highlights than winning and have no ability to project out beyond the next game.

I couldn't care less how many goals the Kings score this year, it doesn't mean a damn thing. I care about the health of the franchise and its ability to get back to championship contention. You don't get there by adding great players to unprepared teams that aren't ready to contend and hoping the rest of the roster grows up to their level.

It never works. All you would achieve is creating a list of posters who either prioritize exciting hockey or didn't pay much attention to the history of this team or the successful organizations around the league.

Fiala would be a hell of an addition if the kids were a few years ahead of this mismanaged path. But they aren't, so the best move would be to have waited for the right time because Fiala's production is available every summer - instead Blake took an offer that fell into his lap instead of waiting for the right time. That is the kind of weak executive he has proven to be time and again.

Just like he did with Danault the year before. Two excellent players who will be out of their prime and financial albatrosses when Byfield and Clarke have taken over for Kopitar and Doughty, if that happens. And we better hope that does happen because if they don't its guaranteed mediocrity. If they had waited they could use that space on players in their prime at the time without $14 million in 30+s. Of course, the kids here haven't been primed for those spots yet, so its going to take even longer than that should have.

If you have Blake figured out as well as the certain demise of this team...why do you even waste your time around here with your depressing posts? Like, you obviously know that Blake isn't going to wake up tomorrow and suddenly start building the team your way, the 'right way...so what's the point? Some of the shit around here is just so f***ing weird to me...

 

[kingsfan28]

Tonight in the Pac division:

EDM loses [SO point]
SEA loses
CAL loses
VGK wins

 

[kingsholygrail]

Kings will still be in a WC spot come Saturday.

 

[Herby]

but why?

Anytime I see the word "Should" I instantly want to know "why"... let's say the Rangers win the Cup this year. Or next.

What happens to that "should"?

When you have two picks that high you expect at least one of them to in Lombardi language "fill your boxes near the top" and neither have come close . I don't think this is an outlandish take, any Rangers fan would have had them as impact guys in 2023 the night they drafted AL. But it has simply not been the case, and they have had to look outside the organization to find scoring.

And if they win the cup you can say it was mostly because they were gifted a plug and play superstar d-man and were able to sign another star player in his prime, both strictly based on geography.

What is more likely is they don't win the cup, and one of the main reasons will be that they are getting very minimal production from those two players, four and three seasons in.

 

[kilowatt]

Not to alarm anyone but we’re in 4th in the Pacific and currently hold the first wild card spot. Those extra games played are finally catching up with us.

 

[Statto]

Alec Martinez and Mattias Norstrom will be at Dustin Brown night.

We need to hold them hostage and convince them to play LD for us.

Can you imagine prime Norstrom on this team. He’d be perfect.

They acquired an elite PPG winger, the best winger they've had in forever, who was 25 years old and signed to a very reasonable 7-year deal for a 1st + a prospect. I bet if you offered a mid-late 1st + a mid-tier prospect we used a 2nd on to anyone else for a PPG 25-year-old player you'd get laughed at and mocked.

I like Faber, but I think people are really overestimating his potential in the deal. Not to mention, the Kings absolutely smashed the value they could have gotten for him, especially given what we know about his situation and who he desired to play for and where he desired to live.

I would do the deal again even if I had to pay more...

I’d do the deal regarding but the stuff regarding his personal situation is no more than conjecture.

 

[Statto]

If you have Blake figured out as well as the certain demise of this team...why do you even waste your time around here with your depressing posts? Like, you obviously know that Blake isn't going to wake up tomorrow and suddenly start building the team your way, the 'right way...so what's the point? Some of the shit around here is just so f***ing weird to me...

Whilst I don’t agree with all of what Bland says, especially on the Fiala trade, he’s got a consistent view on how he thinks things should be done. He voices his view and there’s nothing wrong with that, especially as he has a coherent rationale. It’s a forum and if we all agree it’d be as boring as hell on here, especially as it’s been forever since we’ve played.

 

[Surf Nutz]

We wonder why the league doesn’t connect with the casual fan… they are so detached from the real world.

ok, read the rest of the thread so not mandatory.

I do think though that teams need to think about the causes they support. We talked about needing casual fans but also new younger fans. There is a generation coming up where some of these causes (wrongfully derided as woke) do matter to them, hugely. Ignoring my political views, it makes sense from a business standpoint to start supporting them.

It’s why I’m sure there is a 100% support of the military nights because not doing so would be awful for business, let alone personal reputations. An individuals personal view won’t be considered on that one and nobody is going to start a public spat over it. In time business will drive changes in the attitude to some of these other things.

The real world is the building backlash from the unheralded everyday citizen, against the coerced agendas , that players , the teams and the league were forced to go along with.

They are now trying to negotiate this on those three levels, while the government, bought politicians, globalists, big corpo and the media who are still firmly entrenched, sit watching ready to smear anyone or anything that does not bow to the culture they are attempting install on society.

They have shown they can and will shut it all down or the parts they choose, whenever they feel it is necessary to attempt to achieve their objectives.

It definitely makes business sense to be afforded the luxury to run your enterprise even if you are actually losing money on some of these nights that appease those pulling the strings and launching their agendas.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I'm personally fine with the Fiala trade and always have been. I think he'll still be an impact prime age winger (on a good deal, too) when Byfield/Clarke/Vilardi have taken control of the team.

Although, I do agree with Bland's mindset that you generally shouldn't be adding players like this if your core isn't developed. The Kings next core is hardly formed yet (and still missing a future goaltender).

I sort of like Lombardi's old mindset of making the kids earn their help. As soon as Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, and Quick were carrying the team into the playoffs, Lombardi started bringing in players like Penner and Smyth to fill holes, and inevitably Richards and Carter.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

If we're talking old Kings LHD, I would much rather have Scuderi and Mitchell.

Anderson-Doughty
Mitchell-Clarke
Scuderi-Spence

29 year old Quick
Copley

Be near the top of the league lol.

 

[bland]

I'm personally fine with the Fiala trade and always have been. I think he'll still be an impact prime age winger (on a good deal, too) when Byfield/Clarke/Vilardi have taken control of the team.

Although, I do agree with Bland's mindset that you generally shouldn't be adding players like this if your core isn't developed. The Kings next core is hardly formed yet (and still missing a future goaltender).

I sort of like Lombardi's old mindset of making the kids earn their help. As soon as Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, and Quick were carrying the team into the playoffs, Lombardi started bringing in players like Penner and Smyth to fill holes, and inevitably Richards and Carter.

My argument is that it will take at least a few seasons for the kids to get acclimated and trusted, then more time to thrive. By then Fiala will be in his late 20s or early 30s, traditionally (though not always) the time offensive wingers fade in production but still command a high cap hit.

Rebuilds are a luxury, but team's need patience to see them through because its most likely that they will need to make a variety of adjustments before growing into contender status. You need assets and flexibility to maximize that, and over committing to players that will be out of their prime at that time limits your maneuverability.

The Kings weren't a Danault and Fiala away from being able to change course. Love the players, just think the timing will hurt the end goal far more than help.

 

[Schmooley]

The Kings weren't a Danault and Fiala away from being able to change course. Love the players, just think the timing will hurt the end goal far more than help.

That was my thought when they brought in Danault. They retained Iafallo and brought in Arvidsson as well.
So by the time the Fiala trade happened it was already clear that the rebuild wasnt really a thing and I accepted it. Like you I have my doubts that these were the proper moves to make.
They are the right pieces at the wrong time was my thought.
Like the dr john song i was in the right place but it musta been the wrong time.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

My argument is that it will take at least a few seasons for the kids to get acclimated and trusted, then more time to thrive. By then Fiala will be in his late 20s or early 30s, traditionally (though not always) the time offensive wingers fade in production but still command a high cap hit.

Rebuilds are a luxury, but team's need patience to see them through because its most likely that they will need to make a variety of adjustments before growing into contender status. You need assets and flexibility to maximize that, and over committing to players that will be out of their prime at that time limits your maneuverability.

The Kings weren't a Danault and Fiala away from being able to change course. Love the players, just think the timing will hurt the end goal far more than help.

The Kings only got to the playoffs last year on the backs of mercenary vets like Danault, and then exclusively played the vets, both old and new, in the Edmonton series.

Just another example of Blake/Todd bungling their "rebuild," if we can even consider it a rebuild.