Toggle sidebar

Around the League - Offseason Edition

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
Peasy said:
Players nowadays can practically get similar shot speeds with way quicker releases than a slapshot and with much more deception.

Also less time and space overall.
Click to expand...
I think it has more to do with players literally playing with flexes as low as 65. On average most are between 75-85 now and I think 85 used to be considered low for most. I wish I used a lower flex growing up but I was always afraid of breaking sticks if I used anything below a 85.
 
Peasy said:
Players nowadays can practically get similar shot speeds with way quicker releases than a slapshot and with much more deception.

Also less time and space overall.
Click to expand...
Ya I think stick design/improvements may have made it obsolete, especially at 5 on 5 when there is zero time
 
Dekes For Days said:
One would do that to improve perspective and gain a better understanding of the hit and miss rate of pro acquisitions around the league and the detrimental costs associated with actual bad misses, in order to better align expectations and improve evaluations of performance.
Click to expand...

1691621139087.png


During his time as Leafs GM, Kyle Dubas had traded 7 first round picks, which break down as follows:

2018: traded down from 25th to 29th (Rasmus Sandin) & 76th overall (Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
2019: traded in Jake Muzzin deal
2020: traded to Carolina to dump Patrick Marleau's contract
2021: Traded to Columbus in Nick Foligno deal
2022: traded down 25th to 38th (Fraser Minten) to dump Petr Mrazek's contract
2023: traded to St. Louis in Ryan O'Reilly deal
2025: traded to Chicago in Jake McCabe deal

Dubas is not a clairvoyant. There's no way that he could have anticipated Jake Muzzin's string of concussions, Nick Foligno's crippling back injury shortly after his arrival in Toronto, Petr Mrazek's play plummeting the way it did and the lack of playoff success last season with all of the impact moves he made to address multiple roster needs, bringing in O'Reilly and McCabe, among others.

Still, even though it wasn't his intent, it doesn't change the fact that Dubas has set the Leafs back a long way with how he chose to use his 1st round picks. Not only has the impact of these decisions been felt in recent years, but it will also be felt in the future.

In the end, the Buds hired ex-Flames GM Brad Treliving to replace him, and while we don't yet know whether or not he'll be an improvement, he can't possibly be any worse from one specific perspective.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: DarkKnight, hockeywiz542, PromisedLand and 3 others
Mess said:
During his time as Leafs GM, Kyle Dubas had traded 7 first round picks, which break down as follows:

2018: traded down from 25th to 29th (Rasmus Sandin) & 76th overall (Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
2019: traded in Jake Muzzin deal
2020: traded to Carolina to dump Patrick Marleau's contract
2021: Traded to Columbus in Nick Foligno deal
2022: traded down 25th to 38th (Fraser Minten) to dump Petr Mrazek's contract
2023: traded to St. Louis in Ryan O'Reilly deal
2025: traded to Chicago in Jake McCabe deal

Dubas is not a clairvoyant. There's no way that he could have anticipated Jake Muzzin's string of concussions, Nick Foligno's crippling back injury shortly after his arrival in Toronto, Petr Mrazek's play plummeting the way it did and the lack of playoff success last season with all of the impact moves he made to address multiple roster needs, bringing in O'Reilly and McCabe, among others.

Still, even though it wasn't his intent, it doesn't change the fact that Dubas has set the Leafs back a long way with how he chose to use his 1st round picks. Not only has the impact of these decisions been felt in recent years, but it will also be felt in the future.

In the end, the Buds hired ex-Flames GM Brad Treliving to replace him, and while we don't yet know whether or not he'll be an improvement, he can't possibly be any worse from one specific perspective.
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with my post? My post was about the importance of contextualizing information relative to the rest of the league, while your response not only fails to contextualize what happened, it misrepresents it.

For example, moving down from 25th to 29th is not removing a 1st, and adding a 3rd through that is not harmful to our future. You're taking something that was actually beneficial to our future and trying to represent it as harmful. Dubas is also not the one that hurt the future with the Marleau trade. Lou is the one that hurt the future with the Marleau signing, that he knew when he did it would require assets to remove in year 3. Then we have something like the Mrazek trade, where the actual loss was 13 draft slots, which is a much tinier and more insignificant impact to our future than is suggested when one just represents it as trading away a 1st.

The Muzzin trade also didn't hurt us. He was a massive piece for us for years, and is only gone now due to a career-threatening injury. And the McCabe trade is literally still helping us now, in the future. And who knows if he would have been able to keep O'Rielly, given the chance. You're also leaving out all of the 1sts he brought in.

So we're left with him trading a couple 1sts to give a competitive team a boost over the years, while keeping all top prospects, and still replenishing and improving the prospect pool through good drafting and alternatives routes. If that's anything relative to other teams in our position, it's more mindful of the future, not less. We've seen teams in recent years throw away their entire future for one run.

It can be a lot, lot, lot worse. Dubas is likely to provide more ELC value to Treliving in his first 2 years than Dubas got from all of his predecessors combined through his entire tenure.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: VanW27 and OddyOh
Mess said:
View attachment 734926

During his time as Leafs GM, Kyle Dubas had traded 7 first round picks, which break down as follows:

2018: traded down from 25th to 29th (Rasmus Sandin) & 76th overall (Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
2019: traded in Jake Muzzin deal
2020: traded to Carolina to dump Patrick Marleau's contract
2021: Traded to Columbus in Nick Foligno deal
2022: traded down 25th to 38th (Fraser Minten) to dump Petr Mrazek's contract
2023: traded to St. Louis in Ryan O'Reilly deal
2025: traded to Chicago in Jake McCabe deal

Dubas is not a clairvoyant. There's no way that he could have anticipated Jake Muzzin's string of concussions, Nick Foligno's crippling back injury shortly after his arrival in Toronto, Petr Mrazek's play plummeting the way it did and the lack of playoff success last season with all of the impact moves he made to address multiple roster needs, bringing in O'Reilly and McCabe, among others.

Still, even though it wasn't his intent, it doesn't change the fact that Dubas has set the Leafs back a long way with how he chose to use his 1st round picks. Not only has the impact of these decisions been felt in recent years, but it will also be felt in the future.

In the end, the Buds hired ex-Flames GM Brad Treliving to replace him, and while we don't yet know whether or not he'll be an improvement, he can't possibly be any worse from one specific perspective.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest issue was believing in the players drafted before he was GM.

No one cares about 1st. rounders traded when you're counting Cups.

Everyone cares about prospects when the future is bleak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hockeywiz542, Jimmy Firecracker, VanW27 and 2 others
ULF_55 said:
I think the biggest issue was believing in the players drafted before he was GM.

No one cares about 1st. rounders traded when you're counting Cups.

Everyone cares about prospects when the future is bleak.
Click to expand...
Does anyone remember the first round picks Tampa traded for Coleman, Goodrow, etc.? When the Leafs end up winning, no one will care or remember the first round picks that were traded away.
 
Evilhomer said:
Does anyone remember the first round picks Tampa traded for Coleman, Goodrow, etc.? When the Leafs end up winning, no one will care or remember the first round picks that were traded away.
Click to expand...
Tampa Bay won back to back cups after trading for them in the 2 years they had them for and we got the same results everytime so most people won't be happy about that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hockeywiz542, Jimmy Firecracker and Captain Crunch
I remember being pissed about what Lou and MArk Hunter left behind. Basically every non-1st rounder was a bust.

Looks like Dubas is leaving us just as empty handed, except for the Knies home run pick.
 
Fogelhund said:
""

View attachment 735192

Canes now have NINE NHL D... Trade coming at some point to bring in a forward?
Click to expand...

I wpuldnt be surprised to see them run with what they have.. which is spectacular

It looks like they adjusted in the sense to cut down minutes for their big boys so all three pairings run fresh

I could see picks prospects and coghlan traded for a forward before skjei or pesce
 
Bohemian Waxwing said:
I remember being pissed about what Lou and MArk Hunter left behind. Basically every non-1st rounder was a bust.

Looks like Dubas is leaving us just as empty handed, except for the Knies home run pick.
Click to expand...

Good chunk of his legacy rides on the likes of Knies, Robertson, Niemela, Hirvonen, and Minten (with a remote chance for Amirov depending on how his diagnosis progresses) panning out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buds17 and arso40
Peasy said:
Players nowadays can practically get similar shot speeds with way quicker releases than a slapshot and with much more deception.

Also less time and space overall.
Click to expand...
Except on one-timers.

Burnie97 said:
We're going to hear about Pittsburgh and Dubas now forever.

Holy f***. Wish him luck but he's not part of the Leafs now. f*** sakes with these articles.

He was an alright GM. Next.
Click to expand...
You’re being very generous calling him an alright GM. So glad he’s gone. I only wish Shanahan was also gone, although ultimately it’s on ownership.
 
Shanwhatplan said:
Except on one-timers.


You’re being very generous calling him an alright GM. So glad he’s gone. I only wish Shanahan was also gone, although ultimately it’s on ownership.
Click to expand...
Well in all honesty he did some good and some bad. I don't get the crazy love for him though but to each their own. All good.

Once a guy has been part of the Leaf organization sportsnet especially loves to follow them.

Can't wait until this f***ing deal is done with Rogers in what 2026? PLEASE DON'T RENEW IT.

Someone can easily out due them.

Agreed though. I think shanny isn't great either. Like you said with this ownership though... good luck.

Side note... I could go on and on about it but the amount of monopolies (including Rogers etc) in Canada is f***ing brutal. No one can afford shit because there is no options.

Sorry ranting now but f*** sakes lol. Cheers. TGIF.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OddyOh, Captain Crunch and andora
Burnie97 said:
Well in all honesty he did some good and some bad. I don't get the crazy love for him though but to each their own. All good.

Once a guy has been part of the Leaf organization sportsnet especially loves to follow them.

Can't wait until this f***ing deal is done with Rogers in what 2026? PLEASE DON'T RENEW IT.

Someone can easily out due them.

Agreed though. I think shanny isn't great either. Like you said with this ownership though... good luck.

Side note... I could go on and on about it but the amount of monopolies (including Rogers etc) in Canada is f***ing brutal. No one can afford shit because there is no options.

Sorry ranting now but f*** sakes lol. Cheers. TGIF.
Click to expand...
Its a shame a lot of Canadians don't even realize how much price gouging there is ongoing, especially with the Canadian teleco's. And the people in government that are meant the protect its citizens from being taken advantage of are just in bed with these people and continue to enact policies and approve sales that just further perpetuates the problem.

Cant allow foreign competition for teleco but feel free to buy up as much real-estate as you want.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: PromisedLand, andora and Burnie97
Peasy said:
Its a shame a lot of Canadians don't even realize how much price gouging there is ongoing, especially with the Canadian teleco's. And the people in government that are meant the protect its citizens from being taken advantage of are just in bed with these people and continue to enact policies and approve sales that just further perpetuates the problem.

Cant allow foreign competition for teleco but feel free to buy up as much real-estate as you want.
Click to expand...
Right!!!

Nailed it.

I don't want to get too political or say what way is good or bad. That's personal preference and I respect that ... somewhere in the middle is good for me but I think we've all lost that because of certain meat heads in other countries running shit. Our own country is in cruise control right now too.

Do I like our government right now... no not really. Not doing enough ... but going too far the other way isn't great either.

I want to make this clear for people that actually read this far... I'm just saying we've all forgot how to compromise and people are digging their feet it. It's not just Canada. It's everywhere. I think the pandemic f***ed up a lot more than peoples physical health.

Sorry mods ... should be in another thread I'll continue there. Got off topic. Dog days of summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PromisedLand
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom