Around the League - Offseason Edition

[Fogelhund]

Good God, not Harold Ballard.

It's not really a fair comparison. Ballard was an owner that didn't care about winning the cup. He cared about making money and feuding with the fans.

Sounds a lot like ML$E actually.

From what I can tell the majority of NHL teams are owned by individuals. Guys that want to bring recognition to their hometown teams. And it seems like those franchises, for the most part, have had the most success lately.

Pttsburgh won it when Mario was owner.
Tampa won it with Vinick as owner.
Stan Kroenke owns Colorado.
The Jacobs family and the Bruins.

Rogers and Bell have too many conflicting interests to make the Leafs winning a cup top priority for them. How is it possible Bell is allowed to invest in both the Canadiens and the Leafs for example. Not to mention their media empire monopoly.

For $100 a month Rogers and Bell will be more than happy to help you become fans of another team.

I feel like an individual owner would have more interest in winning. Corporations have to answer to their shareholders. An individual with a passion for the game who wants to leave a legacy might be a better choice.

Someone who cares about winning more than making bank.

And maybe, long shot I know, but just maybe, his attitude would leak down to the players. Instead of the "cash is king" mentality of the corporate owners. The owners set the example for the entire organization to follow.

That's why all their stars are greedy money chasing losers too.

So it's gone from, Corporate owners don't care because Leafs don't make money, to Corps are greedy after the first half baked theory was proven wrong!!! So basically, you hate Corps, and will do anything to build a case against them? Or do you just hate Bell and Rogers?

In any case, a massive ridiculous stretch.. but enjoy conjuring up stories for yourself.

 

[Mess]

Good God, not Harold Ballard.

It's not really a fair comparison. Ballard was an owner that didn't care about winning the cup. He cared about making money and feuding with the fans.

Sounds a lot like ML$E actually.

From what I can tell the majority of NHL teams are owned by individuals. Guys that want to bring recognition to their hometown teams. And it seems like those franchises, for the most part, have had the most success lately.

Pttsburgh won it when Mario was owner.
Tampa won it with Vinick as owner.
Stan Kroenke owns Colorado.
The Jacobs family and the Bruins.

Rogers and Bell have too many conflicting interests to make the Leafs winning a cup top priority for them. How is it possible Bell is allowed to invest in both the Canadiens and the Leafs for example. Not to mention their media empire monopoly.

For $100 a month Rogers and Bell will be more than happy to help you become fans of another team.

I feel like an individual owner would have more interest in winning. Corporations have to answer to their shareholders. An individual with a passion for the game who wants to leave a legacy might be a better choice.

Someone who cares about winning more than making bank.

And maybe, long shot I know, but just maybe, his attitude would leak down to the players. Instead of the "cash is king" mentality of the corporate owners. The owners set the example for the entire organization to follow.

That's why all their stars are greedy money chasing losers too.

Oh, I don't dispute the fact that a single owner with a desire to win the Stanley Cup as his highest priority, and where money was no object in obtaining that goal would be an improvement on Leafs current situation, however someone who lived through the Ballard years in Leafs support also understands a single owner is not without pitfalls and risks.

However this is what Bell/Rogers and Tanenbaum see from Forbes 500 richest NHL franchises. (Dec 2022).

The Leafs are valued at $2 billion dollars an increase of 11% up from 2022 season totals and the 2nd most valuable franchise so to them this is winning. The playoff results don't matter in the big picture if your making $220 mil alone on franchise value increases annually, because they're only a drop in the bucket in comparison.

As fans we see overpriced contracts for Matthews, Marner and Tavares hurting team competitiveness come playoff time, particularly if you have $33 mil producing 1 goal and nearly getting swept in round #2 that a single owner might address if winning was everything. BUT to MLSE they see star players and as a result can charge the NHL's highest ticket and gate receipts for 42 home games in the regular season maximizing profits, plus whatever happens in the playoffs.

 

[Fogelhund]

Oh, I don't dispute the fact that a single owner with a desire to win the Stanley Cup as his highest priority, and where money was no object in obtaining that goal would be an improvement on Leafs current situation, however someone who lived through the Ballard years in Leafs support also understands a single owner is not without pitfalls and risks.

Or look at Ottawa, or Vancouver as recent examples where single ownership ends up being problematic. Corporate ownership is increasing in numbers, and will only continue to do so. Corporate owners have also won their share of championships globally. Man City won the Champions league and EPL last year. Raptors have corporate ownership, and have recently won a championship. Atlanta Braves won in 2021, and are owned by Liberty Media.... The list can go on, and on.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Oh, I don't dispute the fact that a single owner with a desire to win the Stanley Cup as his highest priority, and where money was no object in obtaining that goal would be an improvement on Leafs current situation, however someone who lived through the Ballard years in Leafs support also understands a single owner is not without pitfalls and risks.

I don't know....

All ownership types have their pitfalls.

Not all individual owners are Melnyk's and Ballard's. And even management can tend toward dictatorial tendencies. Power corrupts.

Just look at what it did to Dubas.

I think an individual owner would be more reactionary. There hasn't been enough accountability since Shanahan took over. If there was owner pushing an agenda to win a cup, we probably wouldn't be entering the year with Keefe as coach.

The fans would have seen more accountability if the actual end goal was winning a cup and not just selling jersey's.

 

[Stephen]

Good God, not Harold Ballard.

It's not really a fair comparison. Ballard was an owner that didn't care about winning the cup. He cared about making money and feuding with the fans.

Sounds a lot like ML$E actually.

From what I can tell the majority of NHL teams are owned by individuals. Guys that want to bring recognition to their hometown teams. And it seems like those franchises, for the most part, have had the most success lately.

Pttsburgh won it when Mario was owner.
Tampa won it with Vinick as owner.
Stan Kroenke owns Colorado.
The Jacobs family and the Bruins.

Rogers and Bell have too many conflicting interests to make the Leafs winning a cup top priority for them. How is it possible Bell is allowed to invest in both the Canadiens and the Leafs for example. Not to mention their media empire monopoly.

For $100 a month Rogers and Bell will be more than happy to help you become fans of another team.

I feel like an individual owner would have more interest in winning. Corporations have to answer to their shareholders. An individual with a passion for the game who wants to leave a legacy might be a better choice.

Someone who cares about winning more than making bank.

And maybe, long shot I know, but just maybe, his attitude would leak down to the players. Instead of the "cash is king" mentality of the corporate owners. The owners set the example for the entire organization to follow.

That's why all their stars are greedy money chasing losers too.

I find it hard to reconcile the notion of MLSE being too greedy to focus on winning championships, as if that was ever a real dilemma, especially when we are now in an era of multi billion dollar franchise valuations while the NHL salary cap is still capped at well under $100 million… yeah they focus on making money but at the expense of ticket prices, not on a shoestring budget.

Just think of the $8 million in real cash the Leafs are paying for Matt Murray to stay home and be injured while also spending to the cap. And Muzzin’s LTIR money the past 2 years. I don’t know what’s insured and what isn’t but do you think they’d care if they spent another $15 million on their active roster if they were allowed to? They also have a very bloated front office. That’s real salaries.

Corporate ownership can be bland and faceless. But do you want a Melnyk or an Aquilini or a Dolan in charge? Or an angry super fan? I dunno.

 

[Fogelhund]

Expected, but now official, Krejci retires.

""

 

[Stephen]

Expected, but now official, Krejci retires.

""

The Boston Ruins.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Or look at Ottawa, or Vancouver as recent examples where single ownership ends up being problematic. Corporate ownership is increasing in numbers, and will only continue to do so. Corporate owners have also won their share of championships globally. Man City won the Champions league and EPL last year. Raptors have corporate ownership, and have recently won a championship. Atlanta Braves won in 2021, and are owned by Liberty Media.... The list can go on, and on.

The counter to that is the NFL, which prohibits corporate ownership.

 

[Mess]

I don't know....

All ownership types have their pitfalls.

Not all individual owners are Melnyk's and Ballard's. And even management can tend toward dictatorial tendencies. Power corrupts.

Just look at what it did to Dubas.

I think an individual owner would be more reactionary. There hasn't been enough accountability since Shanahan took over. If there was owner pushing an agenda to win a cup, we probably wouldn't be entering the year with Keefe as coach.

The fans would have seen more accountability if the actual end goal was winning a cup and not just selling jersey's.

A single owner does not guaranteed championships success. I'm a fan of the NFL Dallas Cowboys and they have a single owner in Jerry Jones who tries to win each year.

In 2022, the franchise value came to around 8 billion U.S. dollars. The Dallas Cowboys are owned by Jerry Jones who bought the franchise for 150 million U.S. dollars in 1989.

Dallas Cowboys haven't won the NFC, Super Bowl in 27 years dating back to 1996, but not for lack of trying,

 

[ACC1224]

Oh, I don't dispute the fact that a single owner with a desire to win the Stanley Cup as his highest priority, and where money was no object in obtaining that goal would be an improvement on Leafs current situation, however someone who lived through the Ballard years in Leafs support also understands a single owner is not without pitfalls and risks.

However this is what Bell/Rogers and Tanenbaum see from Forbes 500 richest NHL franchises. (Dec 2022).

View attachment 735877

The Leafs are valued at $2 billion dollars an increase of 11% up from 2022 season totals and the 2nd most valuable franchise so to them this is winning. The playoff results don't matter in the big picture if your making $220 mil alone on franchise value increases annually, because they're only a drop in the bucket in comparison.

As fans we see overpriced contracts for Matthews, Marner and Tavares hurting team competitiveness come playoff time, particularly if you have $33 mil producing 1 goal and nearly getting swept in round #2 that a single owner might address if winning was everything. BUT to MLSE they see star players and as a result can charge the NHL's highest ticket and gate receipts for 42 home games in the regular season maximizing profits, plus whatever happens in the playoffs.

How much more would this owner spend than MLSE and what would they do differently to ensure this success?

IMO, we as fans couldn’t ask for better Owners. Deep pockets and don’t intrude.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

How much more would this owner spend than MLSE and what would they do differently to ensure this success?

IMO, we as fans couldn’t ask for better Owners. Deep pockets and don’t intrude.

Pretty much, it was a bit of a pain in the ass previously with some of BOG were trying to get it but they made the borders extremely clear of late.

 

[rocketman588]

With the bruins exodus. I assume Dorion is gone if the sens don't make the playoffs

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I find it hard to reconcile the notion of MLSE being too greedy to focus on winning championships, as if that was ever a real dilemma, especially when we are now in an era of multi billion dollar franchise valuations while the NHL salary cap is still capped at well under $100 million… yeah they focus on making money but at the expense of ticket prices, not on a shoestring budget.

Just think of the $8 million in real cash the Leafs are paying for Matt Murray to stay home and be injured while also spending to the cap. And Muzzin’s LTIR money the past 2 years. I don’t know what’s insured and what isn’t but do you think they’d care if they spent another $15 million on their active roster if they were allowed to? They also have a very bloated front office. That’s real salaries.

Corporate ownership can be bland and faceless. But do you want a Melnyk or an Aquilini or a Dolan in charge? Or an angry super fan? I dunno.

It was the same thing when the OTPP owned them too though.

The fans are frustrated.

They see their support for the team isn't being spent wisely. The results aren't there. But these guys continue to get rewarded for failure.

I'm thinking an individual owner, one that would hold these guys accountable, might drive the results to be better.

Like Bill Foley did in Vegas.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

A single owner does not guaranteed championships success. I'm a fan of the NFL Dallas Cowboys and they have a single owner in Jerry Jones who tries to win each year.

In 2022, the franchise value came to around 8 billion U.S. dollars. The Dallas Cowboys are owned by Jerry Jones who bought the franchise for 150 million U.S. dollars in 1989.

Dallas Cowboys haven't won the NFC, Super Bowl in 27 years dating back to 1996, but not for lack of trying,

Thanks for the response.

You make a good point.

But being as the Cowboys won the super bowl three times in the 90's, I'm not sure you are using the best example. The last time the Leafs won a cup the Cowboys franchise was just seven years old. I think I speak for a lot of fans when I say I'm frustrated with what I see to be a lack of accountability with this Leafs organization.

I look at what Vegas did and wonder why the Leafs aren't doing the same things.

 

[andora]

Thanks for the response.

You make a good point.

But being as the Cowboys won the super bowl three times in the 90's, I'm not sure you are using the best example. The last time the Leafs won a cup the Cowboys franchise was just seven years old. I think I speak for a lot of fans when I say I'm frustrated with what I see to be a lack of accountability with this Leafs organization.

I look at what Vegas did and wonder why the Leafs aren't doing the same things.

And what would that be cheating? I'm joking but I figured I'd be the first to say it so you probably won't get any retorts

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

And what would that be cheating? I'm joking but I figured I'd be the first to say it so you probably won't get any retorts

Thanks for the response.

Matt Murray is on LTIR...

Vegas held the entire organization accountable. They went through three coaches. And made several big trades to shake up the roster.

I mean, the results speak for themselves.

 

[ACC1224]

Thanks for the response.

You make a good point.

But being as the Cowboys won the super bowl three times in the 90's, I'm not sure you are using the best example. The last time the Leafs won a cup the Cowboys franchise was just seven years old. I think I speak for a lot of fans when I say I'm frustrated with what I see to be a lack of accountability with this Leafs organization.

I look at what Vegas did and wonder why the Leafs aren't doing the same things.

Leafs tried to bring McCrimmon in but he went to Vegas instead. Lol.

 

[andora]

Thanks for the response.

Matt Murray is on LTIR...

Vegas held the entire organization accountable. They went through three coaches. And made several big trades to shake up the roster.

I mean, the results speak for themselves.

Oh i know we do the same thing but our timing is apparently more ethical

 

[rocketman588]

Very modest guy this Dubas fellow

 

[andora]

Very modest guy this Dubas fellow

Lol.. i had a nicer desk

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oh i know we do the same thing

Using LTIR for its intended purpose, to replace an injured player that won't be on our roster anymore =/= Using LTIR to get to the playoffs when the cap disappears, and then reactivate everybody to get an advantage over your opponents.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Oh, I don't dispute the fact that a single owner with a desire to win the Stanley Cup as his highest priority, and where money was no object in obtaining that goal would be an improvement on Leafs current situation, however someone who lived through the Ballard years in Leafs support also understands a single owner is not without pitfalls and risks.

However this is what Bell/Rogers and Tanenbaum see from Forbes 500 richest NHL franchises. (Dec 2022).

View attachment 735877

The Leafs are valued at $2 billion dollars an increase of 11% up from 2022 season totals and the 2nd most valuable franchise so to them this is winning. The playoff results don't matter in the big picture if your making $220 mil alone on franchise value increases annually, because they're only a drop in the bucket in comparison.

As fans we see overpriced contracts for Matthews, Marner and Tavares hurting team competitiveness come playoff time, particularly if you have $33 mil producing 1 goal and nearly getting swept in round #2 that a single owner might address if winning was everything. BUT to MLSE they see star players and as a result can charge the NHL's highest ticket and gate receipts for 42 home games in the regular season maximizing profits, plus whatever happens in the playoffs.

Do you really think MLSE doesn't care about losing playoff revenue?

The Leafs could be so much more profitable if they didn't blow it.

I always laugh when people post stuff like this. "Large corporation doesn't care about results, they care about money....also they care about results because results boost money..." Such depth of reason.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

If only.

 

[LeafSteel]

Canadiens trade D Petry to Red Wings https://www.tsn.ca/1.1996313.1692121806

 

[TMLAM34]

Solid addition for the Wings