Tidbits: Around the League: NHL News - Part 3

[57special]

So say the Vegas team doctors decide to clear Mark Stone unexpectedly with two weeks left in the season (after the trade deadline), and they didn't clear any space at the deadline. Of course that'll never happen...

Is there a scenario where they literally couldn't become cap compliant? Would they send a bunch of players to the minors every day without a game? Or what else could they do at that point?

Even if they planned it out this year to work, the hypothetical question still stands.

And that's what makes this all cap evading BS.

 

[NHL1674]

And that's what makes this all cap evading BS.

Which is why I'm hoping it all blows up in their faces....fingers crossed that picking up Eichel backfires. The NHL should have fixed this BS already.

 

[TaLoN]

Which is why I'm hoping it all blows up in their faces....fingers crossed that picking up Eichel backfires. The NHL should have fixed this BS already.

I don't think there's anything wrong. Just like I thought nothing was wrong with what Tampa did. Just as I thought nothing was wrong when Kane was injured years ago.

Shit happens sometimes.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Had no idea Jesper Bragg was having the season he’s having. Comparable stats at a comparable age to Kaprizov

 

[GuerinUp]

dont know if this is a good spot for this since he isnt a pro player. but this guy just got a lifetime ban

 

[57special]

dont know if this is a good spot for this since he isnt a pro player. but this guy just got a lifetime ban

Yeah, the guy has to be gone, but the ref was way too much in his face there. Kick him out, and skate away. The ref has to be the adult there.

 

[AKL]

I don't think there's anything wrong. Just like I thought nothing was wrong with what Tampa did. Just as I thought nothing was wrong when Kane was injured years ago.

Shit happens sometimes.

I thought it should have been changed when Tampa did it. But it's funny seeing so many people who didn't have a problem with it then, have a problem with it now that it's Vegas.

I still think it should be changed going forward, but there's no reason to be upset about it now that Tampa set the precedent and the NHL allowed it.

 

[TaLoN]

I thought it should have been changed when Tampa did it. But it's funny seeing so many people who didn't have a problem with it then, have a problem with it now that it's Vegas.

I still think it should be changed going forward, but there's no reason to be upset about it now that Tampa set the precedent and the NHL allowed it.

The precedent was set when Kane was injured prior to the trade deadline, then Chicago traded for Vermette, then Kane came back for game 1 of the playoffs.

Tampa complained about it then, the NHL responded publicly stating they didn't violate the spirit of the cap, then Tampa a few years later did the same thing in a shortened season - stating publicly that since the NHL said it's legal, they will do what they need to do with their own injuries.

Now Vegas had fortunate timing with Stone being injured. Injuries happen. If they happen to high paid players, they happen to high paid players.

The cap is designed to start every season on a level playing field as much as possible, but it has assurances built in that the cap alone won't sink a team if injuries happen to star players. A team gets cap relief to try to still compete.

To me, that's a good thing. Just because an injured star ends up missing the rest of the regular season, to me that's not a reason to change anything. Teams would much rather these players not get injured in the first place.

Using the available tools, and then also getting their star back for the post season is not reason to penalize teams IMO.

The league is better off with their best teams in the post season with their best players. It makes for better playoffs. The league knows this, and that's why the league won't change this no matter how much some rival fans feel something is "unfair" because their own star players never got injured for several months.

 

[57special]

The precedent was set when Kane was injured prior to the trade deadline, then Chicago traded for Vermette, then Kane came back for game 1 of the playoffs.

Tampa complained about it then, the NHL responded publicly stating they didn't violate the spirit of the cap, then Tampa a few years later did the same thing in a shortened season - stating publicly that since the NHL said it's legal, they will do what they need to do with their own injuries.

Now Vegas had fortunate timing with Stone being injured. Injuries happen. If they happen to high paid players, they happen to high paid players.

The cap is designed to start every season on a level playing field as much as possible, but it has assurances built in that the cap alone won't sink a team if injuries happen to star players. A team gets cap relief to try to still compete.

To me, that's a good thing. Just because an injured star ends up missing the rest of the regular season, to me that's not a reason to change anything. Teams would much rather these players not get injured in the first place.

Using the available tools, and then also getting their star back for the post season is not reason to penalize teams IMO.

The league is better off with their best teams in the post season with their best players. It makes for better playoffs. The league knows this, and that's why the league won't change this no matter how much some rival fans feel something is "unfair" because their own star players never got injured for several months.

Why have a salary cap at all if it isn't going to be used during the most critical part of the season? A deep pocketed team like the Leafs can use this loophole to their advantage, while a team like ARI or OTT simply doesn't have the $$.
You either believe in a salary cap system for the league, and apply it so all sides have a level playing field, or you don't, and have the Bayern Munich's of the world dominating year after year.

 

[TaLoN]

Why have a salary cap at all if it isn't going to be used during the most critical part of the season? A deep pocketed team like the Leafs can use this loophole to their advantage, while a team like ARI or OTT simply doesn't have the $$.
You either believe in a salary cap system for the league, and apply it so all sides have a level playing field, or you don't, and have the Bayern Munich's of the world dominating year after year.

A team like Toronto would much rather not have any of their star players ever get injured to begin with, as they have a lot of money invested in these players far into the future.

 

[57special]

A team like Toronto would much rather not have any of their star players ever get injured to begin with, as they have a lot of money invested in these players far into the future.

I'm talking "injury", not injury.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm talking "injury", not injury.

Injury is not determined by the team, it's determined by a doctor.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Injury is not determined by the team, it's determined by a doctor.

Which are paid for by the team

 

[TaLoN]

Which are paid for by the team

They are paid by the team to do assessments, they are not "employed" by the team. They are employed by whatever health organization they deal with, but they are still under an overall separate umbrella.

Your doctor is paid by you for services you need, but they aren't employed by you.

These are independent doctors who want to maintain their licenses.

 

[ShortPeter6]

The precedent was set when Kane was injured prior to the trade deadline, then Chicago traded for Vermette, then Kane came back for game 1 of the playoffs.

Tampa complained about it then, the NHL responded publicly stating they didn't violate the spirit of the cap, then Tampa a few years later did the same thing in a shortened season - stating publicly that since the NHL said it's legal, they will do what they need to do with their own injuries.

Now Vegas had fortunate timing with Stone being injured. Injuries happen. If they happen to high paid players, they happen to high paid players.

The cap is designed to start every season on a level playing field as much as possible, but it has assurances built in that the cap alone won't sink a team if injuries happen to star players. A team gets cap relief to try to still compete.

To me, that's a good thing. Just because an injured star ends up missing the rest of the regular season, to me that's not a reason to change anything. Teams would much rather these players not get injured in the first place.

Using the available tools, and then also getting their star back for the post season is not reason to penalize teams IMO.

The league is better off with their best teams in the post season with their best players. It makes for better playoffs. The league knows this, and that's why the league won't change this no matter how much some rival fans feel something is "unfair" because their own star players never got injured for several months.

Oh come on. How can you try and defend this. Amazing how these guys are magically ready for the playoffs. It is a loophole in the system that needs to be closed/fixed. We might as well have Zucc be “injured” until the playoffs. Frees up enough to go get Giroux and a defensemen.

 

[GuerinUp]

Why have a salary cap at all if it isn't going to be used during the most critical part of the season? A deep pocketed team like the Leafs can use this loophole to their advantage, while a team like ARI or OTT simply doesn't have the $$.
You either believe in a salary cap system for the league, and apply it so all sides have a level playing field, or you don't, and have the Bayern Munich's of the world dominating year after year.

i agree with your point, but bayern is my favorite team also so i gotta take issue with that example

Oh come on. How can you try and defend this. Amazing how these guys are magically ready for the playoffs. It is a loophole in the system that needs to be closed/fixed. We might as well have Zucc be “injured” until the playoffs. Frees up enough to go get Giroux and a defensemen.

honestly we probably have the accrued capspace to get giroux and a defensemen without ltir on zucc

 

[57special]

i agree with your point, but bayern is my favorite team also so i gotta take issue with that example

Front runner, Bandwagon jumper.

It takes a real man to cheer for Newcastle.

Is Davies back for Bayern yet, or is he still out?

 

[GuerinUp]

Front runner, Bandwagon jumper.

It takes a real man to cheer for Newcastle.

Is Davies back for Bayern yet, or is he still out?

ive honestly been a fan of bayern since podolski and klose were strikers together. TBH i havent watched a game in a year though so i couldnt tell you about davies

 

[TaLoN]

Oh come on. How can you try and defend this. Amazing how these guys are magically ready for the playoffs. It is a loophole in the system that needs to be closed/fixed. We might as well have Zucc be “injured” until the playoffs. Frees up enough to go get Giroux and a defensemen.

If Zucc is truly injured enough to miss that long, why wouldn't we?

These guys aren't faking the time missed, if that's what you're implying.

If you watched Tampa in the playoffs last year, you could see Kucherov was clearly not 100%. He came back and played though BECAUSE it was the playoffs and players will play through more pain for the playoffs. Always have.

Brendan Shanahan once broke his ankle 2 weeks before the playoffs, yet still didn't miss a playoff game because he played through the pain to be on the ice during the playoffs.

This was LONG before the Cap ever existed.

Stone is dealing with a back injury. We all know how serious that can be for a hockey player and how long it can cause players to miss. Back in November, his back completely locked up on him.

You're assuming Stone will be back for the playoffs, but that is no way guaranteed because of how late in the season it happened this time. Don't forget how long Parise missed due to his back issues that one season.

 

[GuerinUp]

If Zucc is truly injured enough to miss that long, why wouldn't we?

These guys aren't faking the time missed, if that's what you're implying.

If you watched Tampa in the playoffs last year, you could see Kucherov was clearly not 100%. He came back and played though BECAUSE it was the playoffs and players will play through more pain for the playoffs. Always have.

Brendan Shanahan once broke his ankle 2 weeks before the playoffs, yet still didn't miss a playoff game because he played through the pain to be on the ice during the playoffs.

This was LONG before the Cap ever existed.

i would say in the case of stone though, he WAS playing through the injury, so ltir should not be an option "magically" on the table once eichel was ready to come back.

 

[TaLoN]

i would say in the case of stone though, he WAS playing through the injury, so ltir should not be an option "magically" on the table once eichel was ready to come back.

Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) - High Level Overview

• To qualify for LTIR, a player must be expected to miss at least 10 NHL Games AND 24 days of the NHL season.

It should be an option if the above conditions are met for ANY team. He may have been playing through it before... but so have many players... until it flares up again and they just can't. Back issues aren't a clear cut "this is when you're able to play again" recovery.

 

[GuerinUp]

Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) - High Level Overview

• To qualify for LTIR, a player must be expected to miss at least 10 NHL Games AND 24 days of the NHL season.

It should be an option if the above conditions are met for ANY team.

ya, but he wasnt expected to miss anything is my point. he could clearly play through it, as he currently was.

its shady

 

[TaLoN]

ya, but he wasnt expected to miss anything is my point. he could clearly play through it, as he currently was.

its shady

See my above edit about back issues.

Having known many people with back problems, there is nothing shady about it IMO. They flare up unexpectedly all the time.

 

[GuerinUp]

See my above edit about back issues.

Having known many people with back problems, there is nothing shady about it IMO. They flare up unexpectedly all the time.

ya idk, i still think it was awfully convenient for them. I honestly hope they miss the playoffs over this (as they have a slight chance to do so) would be karma at its finest.

 

[TaLoN]

ya idk, i still think it was awfully convenient for them. I honestly hope they miss the playoffs over this (as they have a slight chance to do so) would be karma at its finest.

Awfully convenient for a guy who had missed 15 games already this season to have a flare up of a very chronic injury that has caused many players over decades to miss extended time?