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Tidbits: Around the League: NHL News - 2022-23

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Wabit said:


It's not NHL news, but it is Jagr.
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He's usually the counter argument for the past generations vs today's generation, as Jagr found it tough to match the top guys coming out of the 80's into the 90's when he was in his prime, yet played respectable vs the next generation still as an old man.
He is an ageless wonder for sure having played s well for so long.
 
TaLoN said:
He's usually the counter argument for the past generations vs today's generation, as Jagr found it tough to match the top guys coming out of the 80's into the 90's when he was in his prime, yet played respectable vs the next generation still as an old man.
He is an ageless wonder for sure having played s well for so long.
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Gotta remember he broke into the league as an 18 yo (90-91). By 22 he was at the top of the league and stayed there for several years. Don't get me wrong having Super Mario helped boost his stats.

I still wonder where he would be on the all time lists if he hadn't bolted to the KHL for a few years in his late 30s.
 
Wabit said:
Gotta remember he broke into the league as an 18 yo (90-91). By 22 he was at the top of the league and stayed there for several years. Don't get me wrong having Super Mario helped boost his stats.

I still wonder where he would be on the all time lists if he hadn't bolted to the KHL for a few years in his late 30s.
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Pretty common for generational players to be one of the league's best by their early 20's. That's part of what makes them generational. Jagr just happened to be generational coming in after 2 of the greatest in history, even amongst the generational players in history in Gretzky and Lemieux. McDavid for example, was the NHL points leader at 19, same with Crosby. Jagr didn't lead in points until 94-95 (tied with Lindros for the points title) at 22yrso (Lindros was 21) after a solid wall of Wayne and Mario from 79-80 through 93-94 (Wayne's last season to lead in points, the back injury really changed his game like a light switch after that - still great, but more normal human in his game after instead of his old superhuman self). That was then followed by 2 more seasons of Mario, before Jagr held it for 4 straight years after that.
 
TaLoN said:
Pretty common for generational players to be one of the league's best by their early 20's. That's part of what makes them generational. Jagr just happened to be generational coming in after 2 of the greatest in history, even amongst the generational players in history in Gretzky and Lemieux. McDavid for example, was the NHL points leader at 19, same with Crosby. Jagr didn't lead in points until 94-95 (tied with Lindros for the points title) at 22yrso (Lindros was 21) after a solid wall of Wayne and Mario from 79-80 through 93-94 (Wayne's last season to lead in points, the back injury really changed his game like a light switch after that). That was then followed by 2 more seasons of Mario, before Jagr held it for 4 straight years after that.
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One of those years Jarg missed like 20 games (and was 6th? in points). The other one he was 2nd to Mario.

Crosby has only lead the points twice in his career. He's a great player, but I don't think he's in the same tier as Gretzky. Mario, and McDavid (neither was Jarg).

I think there was a 15-20 year void of that tier of their own, truly all-time great player between Mario (precancer) to McDavid. Hasek (maybe?) filled that gap for a few years, but goalies are a different conversation.
 
Wabit said:
Crosby has only lead the points twice in his career. He's a great player, but I don't think he's in the same tier as Gretzky. Mario, and McDavid (neither was Jarg).
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I wouldn't say McDavid is in the same tier as Gretzky and Mario either. Orr? Sure... Hasek? Maybe... Nobody else.
 
TaLoN said:
I wouldn't say McDavid is in the same tier as Gretzky and Mario either. Orr? Sure... Hasek? Maybe... Nobody else.
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For his era I'd say McDavid is the same category. It's been so long since we saw Mario/Gretzky just be better than everyone else. The NHL has changed so much, and memory is a fickle thing.
 
TaLoN said:
I wouldn't say McDavid is in the same tier as Gretzky and Mario either. Orr? Sure... Hasek? Maybe... Nobody else.
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Wabit said:
For his era I'd say McDavid is the same category. It's been so long since we saw Mario/Gretzky just be better than everyone else. The NHL has changed so much, and memory is a fickle thing.
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I'm not gonna do a bunch of math comparing Gretzky and Lemieux to McDavid, but McDavid's per 82 game pace since 2015-16 is 120 points, Kucherov's is 103, and Draisaitl's is 98. So in terms of points produced rate, McDavid is 16% ahead of his next closest competitor. That doesn't really hold a candle to Gretzky during his prime. Or Mario for that matter.

Fun fact though, looking at points per game played, Kaprizov is actually fourth since 2015-16 at 1.18. Draisaitl is third at 1.19 and Crosby is fifth at 1.16.
 
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AKL said:
I'm not gonna do a bunch of math comparing Gretzky and Lemieux to McDavid, but McDavid's per 82 game pace since 2015-16 is 120 points, Kucherov's is 103, and Draisaitl's is 98. So in terms of points produced rate, McDavid is 16% ahead of his next closest competitor. That doesn't really hold a candle to Greztky during his prime.

Fun fact though, looking at points per game played, Kaprizov is actually fourth since 2015-16 at 1.18. Draisaitl is third at 1.19 and Crosby is fifth at 1.16.
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Wabit said:
For his era I'd say McDavid is the same category. It's been so long since we saw Mario/Gretzky just be better than everyone else. The NHL has changed so much, and memory is a fickle thing.
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I'd definitely say McDavid is in the same tier as the greats. Back then, the bottom six players weren't as good as they are now...certainly slower... and there was no salary cap to even out teams. McDavid is faster than those two by a good bit. Passing isn't as sublime as Gretzky's(but pretty good), stickhandling not as great As Mario's(but pretty good, and he does it at high speed). He reminds me of Orr, in that sometimes he seems to be playing at a faster, higher level than everyone else.
Unlike those three, he's playing on a mediocre team(in a salary cap era), so it's hard to know how to compare them. I am saying that he sure passes the eye test, to me. As does Kaprizov... who is awesome in his own way. Wish we could've had him a couple of years earlier.
 
Fiala's 5v5 P/60 this year is 2.66. I was shocked to see that. Even that's top 30 in the league for 10+ GP. For reference, Eriksson Ek is top on our team at 2.26, and Kap and Zuccarello are at 1.82 and 1.71 respectively.
 
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TaLoN said:
Sounds like Talbot of most of last season.
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Good games here and there with some terrible games?

He's pacing around what he did last year, while Fleury is worse. It's like going, yeah I'm not going to drink this piss, but I'll eat this shit sandwich instead.
 
thestonedkoala said:
Good games here and there with some terrible games?

He's pacing around what he did last year, while Fleury is worse. It's like going, yeah I'm not going to drink this piss, but I'll eat this shit sandwich instead.
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Flower is the same... we all knew that. That's why many weren't thrilled when Flower was re-signed. Trading Talbot at least evened that out. We didn't want to keep both.

In the end? Gus is probably the best of the 3 and likely why it was good that we moved on from Talbot. I'm a fan of Gus!
 
TaLoN said:
Flower is the same... we all knew that. That's why many weren't thrilled when Flower was re-signed. Trading Talbot at least evened that out. We didn't want to keep both.

In the end? Gus is probably the best of the 3 and likely why it was good that we moved on from Talbot. I'm a fan of Gus!
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Not signing Fleury was also an option. I'm not huge on Gus yet. We've seen this with half a dozen goalies in Minnesota's times.
 
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