Around the League delayed season edition

[crassbonanza]

Which is awesome for the Kings but it doesn't mean Faber is what Vancouver missed out on, just like nobody can say with certainty that Conner or Barzal is what the Kings included in the Lucic trade.

I somewhat agree, but I think those two situations are a bit different. Faber seems to have been a decent bit of scouting by the Kings organization, I remember people being shocked at first that he was the prospect traded up for. Also, the Canucks made the trade at the deadline, so they had no idea what position that pick was going to be.

On the other hand the Lucic trade happened right before the draft, so Lombardi knew that he was trading the 13th overall pick. NHL central scouting's final ranking you see that Connor was ranked 13th for North American skaters followed by guys like TK, Chabot and Boeser.

I think it is easier to say that the Kings traded Barzal/TK/Chabot/Boeser/Connor(and another first via Martin Jones) for one year of Lucic when those were guys expected to go around the 13th overall pick. Of course, knowing Lombardi he would have grabbed Jake DeBrusk anyways, so the point is moot.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yeah but they could've and really needed to move salary anyway, keep in mind they had Loui Eriksson impersonating a log on their roster

I feel for Benning on this one because it was a tough spot with Covid cutting the season short but if you're still searching for a middle six forward you should find a way to keep Toffoli

Blake or DL would have gotten absolutely raked for this move even if there's a little of sunk cost fallacy

You mean still have Eriksson on the roster.

Windows aren't forever. Sometimes, like with DL trading a lot of future before the Kings win a single playoff series, you have to try to force it open. Van had last year, and have this year, before both Pettersson and Hughes need new contracts. They also still have to account for Eriksson through at least next season, one way or another.

 

[KingsFan7824]

DL wanted a 3rd Cup in 5 years, and tried to take advantage of the last year of Kopitar's good contract. Whoever the Kings might've picked with the 1st wouldn't have helped for a couple years, since none of the guys we wanted him to take played in the league for a few years.

Same thing Van did. In a hard cap league, if you have some good contracts, you can't always worry about the future.

The Kings aren't there yet, but they're also not that far away from having to start making stupid/risky moves again.

 

[Lt Dan]

DL wanted a 3rd Cup in 5 years, and tried to take advantage of the last year of Kopitar's good contract. Whoever the Kings might've picked with the 1st wouldn't have helped for a couple years, since none of the guys we wanted him to take played in the league for a few years.

Same thing Van did. In a hard cap league, if you have some good contracts, you can't always worry about the future.

The Kings aren't there yet, but they're also not that far away from having to start making stupid/risky moves again.

Bingo

+ one never knows the role that ownership plays in such decisions. They probably wanted another cup even more than DL did

 

[Brodeur]

Agree with RJ though: this board would be all over the Kings GM if he gave up a Top 5 organizational prospect and a 2nd for a Top 6 rental on a team not expected to push for the Cup.

I can understand why Vancouver did the deal, not every deadline deal has to be Cup or bust. Back in the day, a lot of teams didn't turn a profit unless they got gate revenue from a couple of home playoff games. As much as we like to think our owners are bottomless cash dispensers, I can only imagine some GMs being under pressure to run a profitable business.

Vancouver probably couldn't anticipate the shutdown and as I remember it, Brock Boeser wasn't expected back for most of regular season so Toffoli was intended to be his temporary replacement. With the shutdown they don't get the gate revenue but also had additional time for Boeser to recuperate. The first exposure to playoff hockey was probably beneficial to Pettersson/Hughes.

 

[BigKing]

I somewhat agree, but I think those two situations are a bit different. Faber seems to have been a decent bit of scouting by the Kings organization, I remember people being shocked at first that he was the prospect traded up for. Also, the Canucks made the trade at the deadline, so they had no idea what position that pick was going to be.

On the other hand the Lucic trade happened right before the draft, so Lombardi knew that he was trading the 13th overall pick. NHL central scouting's final ranking you see that Connor was ranked 13th for North American skaters followed by guys like TK, Chabot and Boeser.

I think it is easier to say that the Kings traded Barzal/TK/Chabot/Boeser/Connor(and another first via Martin Jones) for one year of Lucic when those were guys expected to go around the 13th overall pick. Of course, knowing Lombardi he would have grabbed Jake DeBrusk anyways, so the point is moot.

Or I can just say they traded Jakob Zboril since he was the player actually taken with the pick. It might be "easier to say it" but it doesn't mean it is factual.

It was a bad trade. We all know it. Everyone just wants to say they traded Barzal or Connor when it was actually the opportunity to pick them. Still sucks but this is used all the time to make DL and the trade look even worse. It doesn't need anymore help: stop it, he's already dead.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well, DL probably would have made a trade up to go for Lawson Crouse, or if that didn't work, mayyyyyybe Barzal because WHL. But we know it wasn't Connor because of the Michigan commit

Regardless it was a 'bad trade' that every contender makes to extend the window, DL wasn't special or alone in that regard, I'm still not upset about that one because of the pretty clear reasoning. The only DL trade that makes me super grumpy is the Bishop one.

 

[Bandit]

We're still shitting on Lombardi's corpse eh? Seems like only yesterday the rumors were swirling that he was gonna be our next GM, with Dancing Boy saying "Save us Dean". Time flies.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know we lost to them so this may be blasphemy, but from Friedman's 31 Thoughts, thought this was great:

"
Three games in, you can see how Kirill Kaprizov has breathed new life into the Wild. The late agent Don Baizley told a great story about two of his clients: Dave Gagner and Saku Koivu. Before Koivu arrived in Montreal, Gagner lined up for a face-off against him and decided to test him a bit. He slashed the Finnish centre, to see what would happen. Koivu glared at Gagner and slashed him right back. Baizley said that Gagner respected that.

I bring this up because Minnesota GM Bill Guerin could see some of his players testing Kaprizov during their camp.
“It wasn’t anything dirty or negative,” Guerin said. “They just wanted to see if he’d compete. He gave it right back. He’s got great enthusiasm, and guys like being around him.”

Relatedly Brady Tkachuk seems to have really taken to Stutzle and seems to be relishing a leadership role, cool to see. Maybe just because they're in the other conference so we only have one TKachuk to deal with!

 

[Token]

GMs these days have 5-8 year shelf life. Long gone are the days of 20-year tenures. There are a few guys in that group but they haven’t really lit it up lately.

Ever since the salary cap was installed, I’ve been waiting for a GM to break the mold on the old-school method of loading up for a cup.

If a GM were bold enough to take advantage of the sliding ELC, bridge deal, then trade players at 27 years old and resist inking that third “Big Money” contract ... that GM would have a swell pipeline and contend for a long time.

Boston comes close, Tampa did it when Yz was there ...

Let’s hope Blake has some bold ideas and not just same-old.

 

[crassbonanza]

Or I can just say they traded Jakob Zboril since he was the player actually taken with the pick. It might be "easier to say it" but it doesn't mean it is factual.

It was a bad trade. We all know it. Everyone just wants to say they traded Barzal or Connor when it was actually the opportunity to pick them. Still sucks but this is used all the time to make DL and the trade look even worse. It doesn't need anymore help: stop it, he's already dead.

Well, you were the one who brought DL up in this conversation weren't you? I was only pointing out that the two situations are not very comparable.

 

[BigKing]

Well, you were the one who brought DL up in this conversation weren't you? I was only pointing out that the two situations are not very comparable.

It is apples to apples when saying Vancouver didn't trade Madden and Faber for Toffoli just like Dean didn't trade Barzal/Connor + for Lucic. Vancouver and LA both traded a draft pick and not an actual player. That was the point but you are the one that wanted to let everyone know that Dean's trade was worse--among other things--because he would have had an idea of who he was selecting while Benning didn't know where he was picking and, more importantly, Dean's pick would have definitely been a good one versus the misses in the same pick range.

It's only "easier to say" if you want to make the trade look even worse. Easiest thing to say is we don't know who he would have picked since we aren't Dean but it wound up being a god awful trade regardless. We've gone through this before as well: I don't want to hear about Connor-being-the-pick rumors if you aren't going to listen to Pacioretty rumors as it relates to Blake.

 

[crassbonanza]

It is apples to apples when saying Vancouver didn't trade Madden and Faber for Toffoli just like Dean didn't trade Barzal/Connor + for Lucic. Vancouver and LA both traded a draft pick and not an actual player. That was the point but you are the one that wanted to let everyone know that Dean's trade was worse--among other things--because he would have had an idea of who he was selecting while Benning didn't know where he was picking and, more importantly, Dean's pick would have definitely been a good one versus the misses in the same pick range.

It's only "easier to say" if you want to make the trade look even worse. Easiest thing to say is we don't know who he would have picked since we aren't Dean but it wound up being a god awful trade regardless. We've gone through this before as well: I don't want to hear about Connor-being-the-pick rumors if you aren't going to listen to Pacioretty rumors as it relates to Blake.

Again, I didn't bring up DL, I was just pointing out that they are fairly different situations. Trading a future 2nd round pick at the deadline is much different than trading the 13th overall pick on draft day as far as projecting players available.

 

[BigKing]

Again, I didn't bring up DL, I was just pointing out that they are fairly different situations. Trading a future 2nd round pick at the deadline is much different than trading the 13th overall pick on draft day as far as projecting players available.

Cool, but I said that the pick Benning traded might not end up being anything anyways.

A poster responded that the pick was used to grab Faber. My point to that was that we don't know if Vancouver would have used that pick and traded up for Faber so we can't say that Vancouver traded Madden and Faber, just like we can't say that Lombardi traded Connor or Barzal.

 

[deeshamrock]

I mean I kind of get what you're saying--if they don't walk out with Covid, no one is the wiser--but, you know, they did violate protocol and get covid, putting everyone else at risk of losing games too.

Samsonov, one of the 4, tested positive on Tuesday. So the other 3 are in COVID protocol. And depending on the testing over the next few days, the rest of the staff, players, etc. might be affected.

Ovie's wife, critical of NHL's policy, her tweet is in this article

Nastya Ovechkin questions NHL ban of players hanging out in hotel rooms

 

[Schrute farms]

GMs these days have 5-8 year shelf life. Long gone are the days of 20-year tenures. There are a few guys in that group but they haven’t really lit it up lately.
Ever since the salary cap was installed, I’ve been waiting for a GM to break the mold on the old-school method of loading up for a cup.
If a GM were bold enough to take advantage of the sliding ELC, bridge deal, then trade players at 27 years old and resist inking that third “Big Money” contract ... that GM would have a swell pipeline and contend for a long time.

I wish our GM would do so. History shows it's the best LT move for the franchise since rarely do those big LT contracts given to a guy coming up on 30 work out. But the problem is how do you do that to fans and players when you actually win the SC? All those years of failure and the Kings win a couple cups and we turn around trading Quick, Kopi, DD....dang that's cold and would take balls. Much easier to do so if you don't win it all. Your hand is basically forced (resigning with a big contract) by your success -- like the Kings were with our guys. Even Richards too -- winning is basically the reason he didn't get cut when we had the opportunity.

 

[Steve Zissou]

CJB and Bolts game tonight....

PLD was completely benched in the 2nd (and only took a few shifts in the 1st) and is being completely cock-blocked by Torts at this point.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

CJB and Bolts game tonight....

PLD was completely benched in the 2nd (and only took a few shifts in the 1st) and is being completely cock-blocked by Torts at this point.

I don't blame Torts



It looks like he lost it in his feet but he should be launching TJ into the third row and at least not giving up after.

 

[tny760]

that's uhh not a good look for PLD

i want to be on his side and say that he just needs a change of scenery but that kind of effort is completely unacceptable for an NHL player no matter how much you hate your coach

 

[DoktorJeep]

PLD is going to MtL, dollars to donuts. Danault and Drouin going the other way.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I don't blame Torts



It looks like he lost it in his feet but he should be launching TJ into the third row and at least not giving up after.

Hedman had a huge giveaway in the 1st that immedietly led to a CBJ goal. Didn’t see him get benched the entire rest of the game.

He did play 17 min the game before against The Wings. Let’s see where this plays out.

Obviously any players not pulling their weight should be benched, but is it a good idea to have a take an awkward situation and make it into a completely toxic locker room distraction (while losing — at least tonight)?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hedman had a huge giveaway in the 1st that immedietly led to a CBJ goal. Didn’t see him get benched the entire rest of the game.

He did play 17 min the game before against The Wings. Let’s see where this plays out.

Obviously any players not pulling their weight should be benched, but is it a good idea to have a take an awkward situation and make it into a completely toxic locker room distraction (while losing — at least tonight)?

Of course it's not a good idea, but that's the Torts special.

But as much as he'll get villainized for it, that's some bullshit by PLD.

I agree there's gotta be another way to manage it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's the whole shift, pretty damning tbh

 

[raswilliam]

Hedman had a huge giveaway in the 1st that immedietly led to a CBJ goal. Didn’t see him get benched the entire rest of the game.

He did play 17 min the game before against The Wings. Let’s see where this plays out.

Obviously any players not pulling their weight should be benched, but is it a good idea to have a take an awkward situation and make it into a completely toxic locker room distraction (while losing — at least tonight)?

 

[kingsboy11]

That was terrible by PLD, but there just has to be a better way to sort this out. Jarmo should probably sit down between the 3 of them and just hash it out, because sitting him the entire game isn't going solve anything. Demote him to 4th line or something, but just letting him sit there is not a good like for potential teams