Around the League 36-But Who's Counting...

[Borsig]

In fairness, most teams don't have the supporting casts and a slot available. How many teams have a "Slavin" to support him as well as no other option in the top 4 so he can slide in? That's a narrow set of criteria and thus why he's not worth his contract. Good for him getting it though.

He's worth probably 3m here. But......

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He's worth probably 3m here. But......

$3M for a bottom pairing defender seems like an over-spend to me.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

$3M for a bottom pairing defender seems like an over-spend to me.

I'd argue that $3.5-$4M for a bottom-pair 5-on-5 guy that generates his type of offense is fair value (he's offensively effective on BOTH the PP and even-strength). I would say that Philly's extension was about a million too much and that building a defensive group that had him exposed to so many minutes without proper defensive support was an avoidable blunder by Philly's FO.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I'd argue that $3.5-$4M for a bottom-pair 5-on-5 guy that generates his type of offense is fair value (he's offensively effective on BOTH the PP and even-strength). I would say that Philly's extension was about a million too much and that building a defensive group that had him exposed to so many minutes without proper defensive support was an avoidable blunder by Philly's FO.

At this point, I wouldn’t bring him back. 5 is solid/pleasant surprise but still somewhat helter skelter. He would be a bad fit with Tda.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'd argue that $3.5-$4M for a bottom-pair 5-on-5 guy that generates his type of offense is fair value (he's offensively effective on BOTH the PP and even-strength).

I'm willing to bet Carolina's front office disagrees with your assessment.

 

[MinJaBen]

I'm willing to bet Carolina's front office disagrees with your assessment.

Never underestimate the Canes front office’s infatuation with defensemen.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Never underestimate the Canes front office’s infatuation with defensemen.

so your saying we are getting Provorov and JVR @50%?

 

[MadeUpName]

Usage is key. DeAngelo is a very good player with particular flaws that get magnified on bad teams. Philly simply lacks the supporting cast to make DeAngelo effective.

Those flaws get magnified against good teams too. DeAngelo is/was ass when it mattered. That is why Carolina was happy to swap him for Burns.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Never underestimate the Canes front office’s infatuation with defensemen.

True, but who were the Canes bottom pairing D the last 3 seasons and how many of them were paid $3.5-$4M? Their actions tell me they didn't value TDA in the $3.5-$4m range.

TVR/Fleury.
Hakanpaa/Bean/Fleury
TDA/Cole/Bear/Smith
Chatfield/CDH

Gardiner is the only one that would fit the bill, but that's only because he struggled due to injury and was sighed as a top 4 guy.

IIRC, Cole was the highest paid at $2.9M.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

True, but who were the Canes bottom pairing D the last 3 seasons and how many of them were paid $3.5-$4M?

TVR/Fleury.
Hakanpaa/Bean/Fleury
TDA/Cole/Bear/Smith
Chatfield/CDH

Gardiner is the only one that would fit the bill, but that's only because he struggled due to injury and was sighed as a top 4 guy.

IIRC, Cole was the highest paid at $2.9M.

exactly. And Cole was only that high because we only wanted one year.

 

[Borsig]

$3M for a bottom pairing defender seems like an over-spend to me.

Expect he was like 4th or 5th in points last year. 3m for that is pennies.

 

[MinJaBen]

True, but who were the Canes bottom pairing D the last 3 seasons and how many of them were paid $3.5-$4M? Their actions tell me they didn't value TDA in the $3.5-$4m range.

TVR/Fleury.
Hakanpaa/Bean/Fleury
TDA/Cole/Bear/Smith
Chatfield/CDH

Gardiner is the only one that would fit the bill, but that's only because he struggled due to injury and was sighed as a top 4 guy.

IIRC, Cole was the highest paid at $2.9M.

Why did you use the cutoff of $3.5-4.0M? TDA @50% comes in less than Cole. You know they would totally consider that for 3rd pair if he were available.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why did you use the cutoff of $3.5-4.0M? TDA @50% comes in less than Cole. You know they would totally consider that for 3rd pair if he were available.

Hey, don't blame me if you can't follow the conversation.

Seriously though. TRPF stated: "I'd argue that $3.5-$4M for a bottom-pair 5-on-5 guy that generates his type of offense is fair value"

I responded: "I'm willing to bet Carolina's front office disagrees with your assessment."

You then responded: "Never underestimate the Canes front office’s infatuation with defensemen."

And thus my response. So the whole discussion was around the notion that TDA was worth $3.5-$4M as a 3rd pairing defender, thus why that's the cutoff and thus why I responded as I did.

TDA at $1m or $2.5M wasn't the discussion.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Expect he was like 4th or 5th in points last year. 3m for that is pennies.

Depends. If the Canes got a shutdown guy for less to go with Slavin, I agree with you. Getting Burns on the top pairing makes TDA @$3m or more more untenable.

Look, I wanted to keep TDA so I'm not dumping on him. I just think the team didn't see him as a viable top pairing guy and his view of his worth and the team's view of his worth weren't in synch.

 

[DaveG]

Expect he was like 4th or 5th in points last year. 3m for that is pennies.

I mean if Philly would eat 50% I'd take him back in a second. A third pair (lol) of Burns-Chat would be a f***ing cheat code considering that was our top pair just before the ASG break

 

[MinJaBen]

Hey, don't blame me if you can't follow the conversation.

Seriously though. TRPF stated: "I'd argue that $3.5-$4M for a bottom-pair 5-on-5 guy that generates his type of offense is fair value"

I responded: "I'm willing to bet Carolina's front office disagrees with your assessment."

You then responded: "Never underestimate the Canes front office’s infatuation with defensemen."

And thus my response. So the whole discussion was around the notion that TDA was worth $3.5-$4M as a 3rd pairing defender, thus why that's the cutoff and thus why I responded as I did.

TDA at $1m or $2.5M wasn't the discussion.

I see. I was looking at your original statement of a $3M bottom pairing defenseman being an overpay, then the range went up, so I was curious.

I mean if Philly would eat 50% I'd take him back in a second. A third pair (lol) of Burns-Chat would be a f***ing cheat code considering that was our top pair just before the ASG break

The real problem with those three pairings wouldn’t be the cost, but giving them enough time to not cause any problems. Pesce will be requesting a trade in a week.

 

[bleedgreen]

The whole “Slavin covered for all of TDA’s deficiencies“ has always been bunk to me. TDA did his job in his end for us. He rarely made a blunder that hurt the team. He surprisingly covered for Slavin at times. The thing that turned the fans against him in the end, or I should say allowed all the fans who hated him in the first place to re attack him after a mostly good season was his lack of production in the playoffs.

He wasn’t a good fit here with fans because people just hate him Imo. I see some fans who often make sure to pick out the stats clowning him now and in the summer were some of the more vocal fans infuriated we signed him in the first place. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I didnt mind his new contract, he would’ve done just as well this season here as he did last season but Burns fits the needs a bit better.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The whole “Slavin covered for all of TDA’s deficiencies“ has always been bunk to me. TDA did his job in his end for us. He rarely made a blunder that hurt the team. He surprisingly covered for Slavin at times. The thing that turned the fans against him in the end, or I should say allowed all the fans who hated him in the first place to re attack him after a mostly good season was his lack of production in the playoffs.

He wasn’t a good fit here with fans because people just hate him Imo. I see some fans who often make sure to pick out the stats clowning him were some of the more vocal fans infuriated we signed him in the first place. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I didnt mind his new contract, he would’ve done just as well this season here as he did last season but Burns fits the needs a bit better.

TDA fitted in just fine with the majority of fans. The terminally online Twitterati is a tiny percentage of the fanbase.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

lol Bruins fans butthurt over the suggestion that Staal is a better defensive center than Bergeron (he is, doesn’t have the offense to come close to Bergeron’s overall level but better defensively). Staal goes against the other team’s best friggin players every shift while playing with Fast and Nino/Martinook. Bergeron has elite wingers and goes against the other teams’ worse lines often. The main boards really are an embarrassing place to read fans of big market teams post

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The whole “Slavin covered for all of TDA’s deficiencies“ has always been bunk to me. TDA did his job in his end for us. He rarely made a blunder that hurt the team. He surprisingly covered for Slavin at times. The thing that turned the fans against him in the end, or I should say allowed all the fans who hated him in the first place to re attack him after a mostly good season was his lack of production in the playoffs.

He wasn’t a good fit here with fans because people just hate him Imo. I see some fans who often make sure to pick out the stats clowning him now and in the summer were some of the more vocal fans infuriated we signed him in the first place. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I didnt mind his new contract, he would’ve done just as well this season here as he did last season but Burns fits the needs a bit better.

TDA fitted in just fine with the majority of fans. The terminally online Twitterati is a tiny percentage of the fanbase.

Yeah, I agree with TRPF here more than Bleed. (never thought I'd say that...ha ha). Fans hated the signing but quickly forgot about that and the majority of fans were just fine with him. It was a small minority that held a grudge. We saw it on this board as well. Rod loved him. it was simply a case of he could make more elsewhere.

As far as picking out stats/playoff performances, we all do that. Look at how you(Bleed) commented about TT's playoff performance. many hold a grudge against Dougie for ducking Ovi's check. Many comments about Nino being invisible in the playoffs, etc.. That's no unique to TDA.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The whole “Slavin covered for all of TDA’s deficiencies“ has always been bunk to me. TDA did his job in his end for us. He rarely made a blunder that hurt the team. He surprisingly covered for Slavin at times. The thing that turned the fans against him in the end, or I should say allowed all the fans who hated him in the first place to re attack him after a mostly good season was his lack of production in the playoffs.

He wasn’t a good fit here with fans because people just hate him Imo. I see some fans who often make sure to pick out the stats clowning him now and in the summer were some of the more vocal fans infuriated we signed him in the first place. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I didnt mind his new contract, he would’ve done just as well this season here as he did last season but Burns fits the needs a bit better.

TDA was killed from March through the playoffs. He was regularly out of position, chasing the puck, and getting beat in the front of the net. The Ranger series he looked like he didnt belong on a 3rd pair. it was bad.

 

[DaveG]

lol Bruins fans butthurt over the suggestion that Staal is a better defensive center than Bergeron (he is, doesn’t have the offense to come close to Bergeron’s overall level but better defensively). Staal goes against the other team’s best friggin players every shift while playing with Fast and Nino/Martinook. Bergeron has elite wingers and goes against the other teams’ worse lines often. The main boards really are an embarrassing place to read fans of big market teams post

I'm not sure whether or not he's better but he's definitely on par... And some people will flat out lose their minds dare someone actually suggest it.

The fact that he hasn't been a Selke finalist in the last 3 years is a joke and shows that since the Datsyuk wins the trophy has simply become the high scoring forward that's best defensively rather than what the actual criteria is supposed to be: the forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game.

The finalist list should also be littered with guys like Malhotra since the lockout.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah, I agree with TRPF here more than Bleed. (never thought I'd say that...ha ha). Fans hated the signing but quickly forgot about that and the majority of fans were just fine with him. It was a small minority that held a grudge. We saw it on this board as well. Rod loved him. it was simply a case of he could make more elsewhere.

As far as picking out stats/playoff performances, we all do that. Look at how you(Bleed) commented about TT's playoff performance. many hold a grudge against Dougie for ducking Ovi's check. Many comments about Nino being invisible in the playoffs, etc.. That's no unique to TDA.

Oh I absolutely agree him not being here came down to being worth more to someone else, we weren’t going to pay him to play third pair and we all knew he was miscast as a first pair guy the whole time. He stepped up and made it work. A lot of people came around with him for sure. The people I would be referring to are a minority but a vocal one, and when dismissive talk about Tony comes out now I see some interesting stuff that’s not worth talking about. Also my original point was whenever the TDA defense comes up there’s an overly strong leaning on Slavin carrying him and the rest of the team making him look good, which is a disservice to how hard the guy worked here. He did it right for us.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Colorado looking all out of sorts.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Boy, this board knows how to beat a dead horse on topics we should be far beyond any time there's a few days off.