Around the League - 2023 Offseason Edition

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We should ban every word and picture that represent Native Americans. Actually we should completely erase them from history and pop culture because every mention of them is expression of deep hatred against them, and clearly Chicago picked that name to show how much they hate Native Americans.
That's kind of a strawman. Nobody wants to erase them from history, nor is Chicago trying to deliberately demean them with the name. The problem is that the name and logo reduces Native Americans to a caricature, erasing their actual heritage and replacing it with a cartoon. At best, it's callously insensitive given that the tribes themselves are unanimous about their dislike of it. Who better to judge whether it's offensive or not?
 
Who better to judge whether it's offensive or not?
They themselves. And as far as I know, they have been in constant contact with the Sauk tribe and they are totally fine with the logo and the name. End of f***ing story.


The biggest issue in modern world is people like you are offended for someone else.
 
No, no. The podium I get. Very natzi-y, but the original tweet called the Blackhawks' logo racist. I was wondering if there was a reason for that.
Marxism 101.

To everyone else


Can we f***ing for the sake of all that is holy keep your f***ing political commentary where it belongs… which is in the f***ing garbage. Thank you
 
I think it kind of boils down to the fact that Native American people are not a character you cosplay, or throw on some regalia and pretend you are one. Imagine if a few teams in each sport did their best to portray a generic white dude as their logo. The Ohio Crackers. Would it offend me? Not really. Does it make me feel narrowed down or pigeonholed as a person? Yeah I can see how it would, I'm a real person and not some caricature of how people see me, and I think that's where indigenous people are coming from.


I think that New York Islanders is problematic name. They are cosplaying the people of Long Island and have some generic white old dude on their logo.

In all seriousness, Chicago jersey and logo are best looking combo I have ever seen. Detroit logo is also awesome.

That's kind of a strawman. Nobody wants to erase them from history, nor is Chicago trying to deliberately demean them with the name. The problem is that the name and logo reduces Native Americans to a caricature, erasing their actual heritage and replacing it with a cartoon. At best, it's callously insensitive given that the tribes themselves are unanimous about their dislike of it. Who better to judge whether it's offensive or not?


It does not reduce them to a caricature, it tributes them as an awesome representation of their state. If we go by that logic, every team logo and name can be offensive. Edmonton Oilers implies that there is nothing but the oil going on there, avalanche and hurricanes are terrible natural disasters that kill people etc.
 
They themselves. And as far as I know, they have been in constant contact with the Sauk tribe and they are totally fine with the logo and the name. End of f***ing story.


The biggest issue in modern world is people like you are offended for someone else.

That's hardly a unanimous position.

The National Congress of American Indians, The American Indian Center of Chicago, The Chi-Nations Youth Council and over 1,500 Native organizations and advocates from over 150 federally recognized tribes across the country, including members of the Sac and Fox Nation, support changing the team name and logo. Members of Black Hawk's family have spoken out opposing the use of Black Hawk as a mascot and caricature logo.

From Wikipedia, sources can be found in the original article that I posted on the last page. Native Americans aren't a monolith, there are many different groups, and the vast majority support changing the logo, a few outliers doesn't change the fact that most of them don't like it.

Like I said, I'm not even certain they need to change the team name from Blackhawks, you can just change the logo to a bird and that would probably be enough. But the logo is indefensible, it's an outdated relic of a long gone age.
 
We should ban every word and picture that represent Native Americans. Actually we should completely erase them from history and pop culture because every mention of them is expression of deep hatred against them, and clearly Chicago picked that name to show how much they hate Native Americans.
I really don’t want to drag this thread through the drudgery of arguing this, but that’s quite some take, friend. I’ll just say this. They were already given a good go at being erased from history, and some tribes surely were. I’m sure there’s no solace for all the different original peoples in America knowing that people can remember them through team names and caricatures and entities that are worried more about their team’s identity than doing the right and respectful thing.
 
I think that New York Islanders is problematic name. They are cosplaying the people of Long Island and have some generic white old dude on their logo.

In all seriousness, Chicago jersey and logo are best looking combo I have ever seen. Detroit logo is also awesome.




It does not reduce them to a caricature, it tributes them as an awesome representation of their state. If we go by that logic, every team logo and name can be offensive. Edmonton Oilers implies that there is nothing but the oil going on there, avalanche and hurricanes are terrible natural disasters that kill people etc.
Logic in a vacuum without context. This is a preposterous exchange, I apologize for letting myself get suckered into it. Let’s talk actual hockey nonsense.
 
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It does not reduce them to a caricature, it tributes them as an awesome representation of their state. If we go by that logic, every team logo and name can be offensive. Edmonton Oilers implies that there is nothing but the oil going on there, avalanche and hurricanes are terrible natural disasters that kill people etc.
I'm sure that's the intention of it, I'm not saying that the organization is deliberately trying to make fun of them. But it's no longer appropriate to have a Native American Head as your logo, that defense didn't work for Chief Wahoo and it shouldn't work for the Hawks. You have to understand that the Hawks logo is different from the Oilers or the Islanders because the Hawks are using a representation of people that have already suffered a lot at our hands. Oil workers and Long Islanders don't exactly fall under the same category. The least we can do is stop reducing them to cartoon stereotypes in the name of "tribute", since they're asking them nicely.
 
They themselves. And as far as I know, they have been in constant contact with the Sauk tribe and they are totally fine with the logo and the name. End of f***ing story.


The biggest issue in modern world is people like you are offended for someone else.

I don't know if I've ever seen It put that succinctly.

The other issue is people willing to talk out of their ass on "issues".

I was staying out of this, but I was too lazy to go find that story lol.
 
I read that Hirvonen got hit hard and was f'ed up after that but didn't expect it to be this bad holy shit.

What on Earth goes through your mind to make that kind of a hit at a scrimmage?
Dillingham is an undrafted player trying to make a name. The victim is a Leafs' top prospect.
 
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Dillingham is an undrafted player trying to make a name. The victim is a Leafs' top prospect.
Exactly. Which is why you don't display toughness and physicality on your own teammates. If that guy had a 1% chance of earning himself a contract, that just went to 0,00000000000000001%. If you are known for physicality and hits (which Dillingham apparently is, considering he has been indefinitely suspended by the OHL for an illegal hit), tough shit. Try something else. You don't hit your teammates like that, never.

I went to twitter and looked at some of the replies on this hit. Shockingly, there are some Leafs fans who think it's fine because it's a clean hit (a small minority thankfully). What if Ryan Reaves knocked out Matthews during practice with a clean hit? Would that be fine too?
 
I don't know, looks like a good hit with an unfortunate result. If you make the scrimmage "hit free" what are you evaluating really?

Edit: It's also funny that the post stresses that the target of the hit was a top prospect and the hit was worse because of that. The f*** is that class system?
 
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Exactly. Which is why you don't display toughness and physicality on your own teammates. If that guy had a 1% chance of earning himself a contract, that just went to 0,00000000000000001%. If you are known for physicality and hits (which Dillingham apparently is, considering he has been indefinitely suspended by the OHL for an illegal hit), tough shit. Try something else. You don't hit your teammates like that, never.

I went to twitter and looked at some of the replies on this hit. Shockingly, there are some Leafs fans who think it's fine because it's a clean hit (a small minority thankfully). What if Ryan Reaves knocked out Matthews during practice with a clean hit? Would that be fine too?
It probably burned the bridge with the Leafs, but the hit increased his chance to earn himself a contract by a few percent across the league.

They aren't teammates, they're prospects trying to impress with the ultimate goal of making the team. It's a huge difference.
 
I don't know, looks like a good hit with an unfortunate result. If you make the scrimmage "hit free" what are you evaluating really?
Their viability of playing in the NHL in ten years when that's what the rules are.
 
It's a frigging practice scrimmage game. That's part of the reason why you don't have full awareness and maybe try to pull off more skilled plays because you don't expect to get rocked.

If MacDermid ran Makar at a scrimmage like that, I can guarantee no-one here would be calling Cale to keep his head up, they would be screaming MacDermid to be waived.
 
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It's a frigging practice scrimmage game. That's part of the reason why you don't have full awareness and maybe try to pull off more skilled plays because you don't expect to get rocked.

If MacDermid ran Makar at a scrimmage like that, I can guarantee no-one here would be calling Cale to keep his head up, they would be screaming MacDermid to be waived.
Hirvonen needs to not get killed, whether bums are making hits or not.
 
It's a frigging practice scrimmage game. That's part of the reason why you don't have full awareness and maybe try to pull off more skilled plays because you don't expect to get rocked.

If MacDermid ran Makar at a scrimmage like that, I can guarantee no-one here would be calling Cale to keep his head up, they would be screaming MacDermid to be waived.
Hirvonen tries to pull those exact plays off in games and gets rocked too. Euro hockey doesn’t get as brutal as NA though… kid needs to learn to not do that ASAP. The hit in a scrimmage isn’t great, but if he does that in the season he’ll get rocked 10 times next season unless he’s out with a concussion.

It seems like a scourge on the game that kids skate with their heads down through the middle of the ice dangling the puck and expect to not get wrecked. Not sure where this started, but unless the NHL changes their rules, it will cause some major injuries.
 
What's wrong with the hit? Hirvonen makes the nhl making dekes and the other guys makes the nhl making hits.
 
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