Around the League - 2023/24

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Pokecheque

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Oh I think it's very obvious he doesn't want the Avs to play a physical brand of hockey.

I don't think that's entirely true. He went out of his way this year to publicly defend Colton, even said after a couple really dumb penalties that he's playing the way the Avs want him to play.

But I agree he does NOT want them to take penalties, which does unfortunately take some of their edge off. Conversely, guys like Evason and Cooper almost encourage it.
 
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Balthazar

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I don't think that's entirely true. He went out of his way this year to publicly defend Colton, even said after a couple really dumb penalties that he's playing the way the Avs want him to play.

But I agree he does NOT want them to take penalties, which does unfortunately take some of their edge off. Conversely, guys like Evason and Cooper almost encourage it.
We've heard Bednar quite often in post game pressers praise a player and say that "he plays a heavy game, he's physical..." Those are clearly things that he likes.

However, the priority #1 is always to not take penalties so players don't want to take any chance and it affects their physical play.
 

Pokecheque

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We've heard Bednar quite often in post game pressers praise a player and say that "he plays a heavy game, he's physical..." Those are clearly things that he likes.

However, the priority #1 is always to not take penalties so players don't want to take any chance and it affects their physical play.
I think the key is, they gotta have enough hockey IQ and speed in order to utilize their physicality within the system. While he's no hockey genius, NAK, who had a well-established rep for dumb penalties, cleaned up his game quite a bit but didn't really lose much edge in the process. I recall him getting benched in a regular season game after taking a really bad penalty but that was it.

The one thing that struck me about Trenin was that he looked sooooooooooooo slow in Bednar's system. Conversely, Colton and Wood are obviously fast, but too often they look like they're chasing the play.
 

Avsfan1921

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I think you’d have to be crazy to think any coach doesn’t want his guys to play physical. Goaltending is suspect, as is the pk. Combined, I can see why Bednar would want them to err on the side of caution. I’m sure he’d love to have more of a physical element to the roster if he could trust them to do it legally and effectively.
 

Pokecheque

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I think you’d have to be crazy to think any coach doesn’t want his guys to play physical. Goaltending is suspect, as is the pk. Combined, I can see why Bednar would want them to err on the side of caution. I’m sure he’d love to have more of a physical element to the roster if he could trust them to do it legally and effectively.
I agree, but he also plays a part IMO as to why the PK is so bad. For all his very aggressive tactics, even on defense (i.e., the "Gegenpress") his team is insanely passive on the PK and it drives me nuts. Unfortunately the lack of reliable goaltending plays a huge part in that as well.
 
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dahrougem2

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Again, I just don't see it. I think Bednar wants his players to check pucks, to be above pucks, to always make sure the puck is what's being hunted down and not the player.

It makes the bottom sixers Sakic/CMac find him utterly useless.
 

henchman21

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Bednar wants physicality with a purpose... not just physicality. That's the primary difference. Many bottom 6 guys and especially 4th liners just run around and hit things. Which leads to penalties and being out of position, but many teams rely on it to make players wear down or thinks twice. Bednar wants hits to separate the puck or cause indecision in the directly play. If a hit doesn't accomplish that, he wants guys in position.
 

Pokecheque

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Kraken dominated the Avs that whole season with their style alone. Literally, their style of play (AKA game plan) is all they had and it worked.

The playoffs were just a continuation of that and Bednar never adjusted. I'm not buying the excuses, Avs were the better team even without Nuke.
They had better star players but the Kraken had by far the better depth. It wasn't even close.

Also, in addition to depth, Seattle had SPEED. Avs were already worn down, they simply could not generate enough separation, and Compher and anyone else beyond the top line did jack squat.

Not saying Bednar is bereft of responsibility here but I ain't buyin' that Hakstol did to him what Mike Babcock regularly did to Patrick Roy.

His record is pretty bad there... he was right on Dobie and Daccord though. Daccord might actually end up a decent starter if he continues from where he left off last season. The black eyes are signing Grubi (who I don't think is as bad as the stats say, but is at very, very best average) and sticking with Ward way too long and trying Lack to force Lack on as the replacement.
Don't forget Scott Darling. E-gads...

And acquiring Groob wasn't bad in and of itself but why in the hell he thought it was a good idea to give him that much term and $$$ is beyond me.
 

Pokecheque

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I think it's engrained into the Avalanche's DNA. They turned Darius Kasparaitis into a cuddly p***y cat and then while it was a pretty damn effective line, I think all three members of the KGB line were more physical in their previous stops.
To be fair, Cloutier might have been the very first coach to actually tell Kasper what to do out there, and he played arguably his best hockey in Colorado. He wasn't just running around looking for the big hit, he was actually playing good defense. It may have helped him in his next stop with the other New York team, he was much better IMO than I would've expected.

FTR physicality with no discernible purpose can be a hindrance as well. The Maple Leafs continually prove that every year. I saw more than a few occasions this last postseason guys like Joel Edmundson get so worked up trying to knock a guy over they just completely ignored the puck. Naturally in those instances, the guy in question or someone else scooped it up and made a play.

The one point of frustration when it came to Bednar with this was regarding MacDermid. You CANNOT make a guy like that play structured hockey. He either has to run around and hit guys or just sit in the press box. Was quite maddening to watch that.
 

Alienblood

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I agree, but he also plays a part IMO as to why the PK is so bad. For all his very aggressive tactics, even on defense (i.e., the "Gegenpress") his team is insanely passive on the PK and it drives me nuts. Unfortunately the lack of reliable goaltending plays a huge part in that as well.
That's Pratt
 

henchman21

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Don't forget Scott Darling. E-gads...

And acquiring Groob wasn't bad in and of itself but why in the hell he thought it was a good idea to give him that much term and $$$ is beyond me.
Darling always had the talent, but had the vices to go along with.

Grubi was simply an average starter deal. He had shown to be a starting capable goalie and that was in the range of market.

I think both show that he's a risk taker on goalies... or desperate...
 

dahrougem2

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Bednar wants physicality with a purpose... not just physicality. That's the primary difference. Many bottom 6 guys and especially 4th liners just run around and hit things. Which leads to penalties and being out of position, but many teams rely on it to make players wear down or thinks twice. Bednar wants hits to separate the puck or cause indecision in the directly play. If a hit doesn't accomplish that, he wants guys in position.
And it takes a very specific style of bottom sixer to play that role. You've got to be able to skate, big enough to throw the body, and smart enough to anticipate and think out there. I thought Duhaime could do that but he really tailed off in the playoffs.
 

Balthazar

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One thing for sure is CMac and Bednar need to see eye to eye. CMac clearly wants a physical bottom 6 since last year alone he added Wood, Colton, Duhaime and Trenin but neither of those guys were physical under Bednar so there's a disconnect somewhere.
 

henchman21

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And it takes a very specific style of bottom sixer to play that role. You've got to be able to skate, big enough to throw the body, and smart enough to anticipate and think out there. I thought Duhaime could do that but he really tailed off in the playoffs.
I don't disagree with that. For better or for worse, this is why Compher succeed and got so many minutes. He was able to play the way Bednar wanted and with some grit. He wasn't as physical as Colton, but he played within the system better. Why LOC works too... he can skate, hit, but knows the limits.

I just don't see Bednar adjusting his style to fit the guys who can't play that way, and I can see the Avs being able to afford the guys who can with the cap. They don't really have them developing either. It is a rock and a hard place.
 

AllAboutAvs

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I actually just responded to that on the main board with this:

"The one issue I see with this rule is that IMO the team will take even more time to go over the red line. They are going to make sure they have a play so it might not be as good as people think it will be.It works in the NBA because they only have 24 secs to take a shot so they need to get across center line quickly. Hockey will not have this restriction."
 
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Balthazar

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Some people would like this here too, I heard it before.

I'm sick of these rule changes. People that are watching this game want to watch hockey. If you make new rules at one point it becomes a new sport.

"Can't go back in your zone"

f*** off, how about 5v5 OT and tie games like it should be? Players won't go back in their zone with the puck. Problem fixed.
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Some people would like this here too, I heard it before.

I'm sick of these rule changes. People that are watching this game want to watch hockey. If you make new rules at one point it becomes a new sport.

"Can't go back in your zone"

f*** off, how about 5v5 OT and tie games like it should be? Players won't go back in their zone with the puck. Problem fixed.

Agreed. No one likes a tie, but they happen. Trying to gimmick your way out of them is just stupid.

And even in the three-point system utilized by the PWHL this year, teams still settled for the loser point and two-point wins, rather than go for it and try and get a win in regulation. People hate to lose way more than they like to win, it's human nature.
 

Bill Peckerskull

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Feb 19, 2003
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Some people would like this here too, I heard it before.

I'm sick of these rule changes. People that are watching this game want to watch hockey. If you make new rules at one point it becomes a new sport.

"Can't go back in your zone"

f*** off, how about 5v5 OT and tie games like it should be? Players won't go back in their zone with the puck. Problem fixed.
I think just if they went to a 3-point system with zero points for losses (3 RW, 2 OTW, 1 SOW), teams would be inclined to try harder to win in regulation, or in OT. Right now, teams have zero reason to try and go for it, and cost themselves a point, in the last 3-4 minutes of regulation.
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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I think just if they went to a 3-point system with zero points for losses (3 RW, 2 OTW, 1 SOW), teams would be inclined to try harder to win in regulation, or in OT. Right now, teams have zero reason to try and go for it, and cost themselves a point, in the last 3-4 minutes of regulation.
Nope.

And even in the three-point system utilized by the PWHL this year, teams still settled for the loser point and two-point wins, rather than go for it and try and get a win in regulation. People hate to lose way more than they like to win, it's human nature.
Unless there's something at stake like that extra point being something that decides a playoff spot, teams will take the safer route every f***ing time.
 

McMetal

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I actually just responded to that on the main board with this:

"The one issue I see with this rule is that IMO the team will take even more time to go over the red line. They are going to make sure they have a play so it might not be as good as people think it will be.It works in the NBA because they only have 24 secs to take a shot so they need to get across center line quickly. Hockey will not have this restriction."
Yeah, I agree. The end result of this will be teams playing less aggressively, not more. No matter how you structure it, the imperative in 3v3 hockey will always be possession at all costs. Tweaking around the edges won't change the fundamental nature of what 3v3 means.
 
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