Around the League - 2023/24

[AllAboutAvs]

You don't read the other boards do you.

No I rarely do. I was referring to our fans talking about other teams losing.

 

[Pokecheque]

He kinda did

No he really didn't. The Avs basically punted that season and went with what they had plus Lars Eller. That's it. In addition to the multitude of injuries they were doomed for an early exit, and that was BEFORE the Nuke incident. Didn't help that Georgie played like absolute shit either.

The Kraks forecheck gave the Avs fits obviously, but the only reason Seattle even made it to the postseason was a freak jump in shooting percentage--they simply could not miss. The minute that wore off, they went in the tank and Hakstol was promptly fired.

 

[henchman21]

There's one, single game plan and he's going to live or die with it. The sample is big now, we have seen it against Vegas, Seattle and Dallas.

Yup. Regardless of the horses, score, style of the other team, etc... Bednar plays his system and it works or it doesn't. This is why when we talk about guys like Ritchie on the third line that it just won't work. Not because Ritchie couldn't possibly do it, but Bednar has a style for his bottom 6 that he's going to adhere to strongly. Not adhering to that style is a very quick way to lose minutes.

 

[Balthazar]

No he really didn't. The Avs basically punted that season and went with what they had plus Lars Eller. That's it. In addition to the multitude of injuries they were doomed for an early exit, and that was BEFORE the Nuke incident. Didn't help that Georgie played like absolute shit either.

The Kraks forecheck gave the Avs fits obviously, but the only reason Seattle even made it to the postseason was a freak jump in shooting percentage--they simply could not miss. The minute that wore off, they went in the tank and Hakstol was promptly fired.

Kraken dominated the Avs that whole season with their style alone. Literally, their style of play (AKA game plan) is all they had and it worked.

The playoffs were just a continuation of that and Bednar never adjusted. I'm not buying the excuses, Avs were the better team even without Nuke.

 

[Balthazar]

Yup. Regardless of the horses, score, style of the other team, etc... Bednar plays his system and it works or it doesn't.

The blueprint to beat the Avs is out there and I highly doubt that we'll face 4 consecutive teams again in the playoffs that won't be able to counter Bednar.

 

[Alienblood]

No he didn't.

His system cause the Avs all kinds of problems and they couldn't adjust.

 

[dahrougem2]

Ya'll really wildin now.

A game 7 where the Avs played with 11 forwards and 4 of those were Meyers, Malgin, Eller and Nieto. Pretty sure Lehkonen was also playing on a broken foot. And they STILL should have won but they got goalie'd. Getting goalie'd doesn't mean you out coached the other team.

In game 7 the Avs out-attempted Seattle 74-51, outchanced them 31-17 and more high danger 8-4.

They got goalie'd.

 

[henchman21]

Ya'll really wildin now.

A game 7 where the Avs played with 11 forwards and 4 of those were Meyers, Malgin, Eller and Nieto. Pretty sure Lehkonen was also playing on a broken foot. And they STILL should have won but they got goalie'd. Getting goalie'd doesn't mean you out coached the other team.

In game 7 the Avs out-attempted Seattle 74-51, outchanced them 31-17 and more high danger 8-4.

They got goalie'd.

Grubi played well in the series as a whole and George didn't. I agree that what happened in net had something to do with it (more on George giving up a soft goal in the majority of games that Grubi).

Still game 7 was only 1 of 7 games. In high danger chances, Seattle had the edge in games 1, 4, and 5. Game 6 was tied 10-10. Game 2, Avs had a 10-9 margin. Seattle, in a different manner, did what the Stars did this past playoffs. They pushed the Avs to the outside, limited the high danger chances, and capitalized on George being George in combination with the Avs being unwilling to attack the center of the ice. Only in 2 games in the series did the Avs have more than 10 HDCF games 1 and 3 where the Avs had 14 and 20. The Stars series went 11, 9, 13, 11, 11, 8. You keep the Avs in check there, then let the goalies wilt.

 

[Pokecheque]

His system cause the Avs all kinds of problems and they couldn't adjust.

And yet you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the Avs had even less depth going into this playoff series than they did in 2018 against the Preds. Kinda hard to make adjustments when you simply don't have the talent to do so. And again, this is not even mentioning that Makar missed a game due to suspension, Cogliano had his neck broken, Nuke was lost after the drunken hooker incident, and Georgie was horribly outplayed by the former Avs goalie (who's no great shakes himself) at the other end.

I agree with Henchy, Bednar is way too slow to make adjustments. But whether you want to admit it or not, one coach had NO depth to begin with, and had it whittled down to even less than that due to all the circumstances I listed above. The other coach didn't have as much high-end talent obviously, but he had WAY more depth, and a better goalie.

I know you clearly don't like the Avs coaches but don't act like Dave Hakstol masterminded them, he didn't, any success he had in Seattle was largely due to a complete fluke where every forward for the Kraks turned into Jamie McGinn in Captain Morgan Mode.

 

[henchman21]

IMO the beyond the adjustments, the biggest black eye to Bednar is his teams having a complete inability to get to the high danger areas and generate chances when the opposing team collapses. The team is far too willing to stay to the outside and fire shots. It isn't Carolina levels of bad, but it is the same idea. If a team has half a goalie, they can wait out and counter attack the Avs.

 

[Pokecheque]

IMO the beyond the adjustments, the biggest black eye to Bednar is his teams having a complete inability to get to the high danger areas and generate chances when the opposing team collapses. The team is far too willing to stay to the outside and fire shots. It isn't Carolina levels of bad, but it is the same idea. If a team has half a goalie, they can wait out and counter attack the Avs.

Their two best net-front guys are both likely starting the year on LTIR. And MacKinnon far too often likes to lean back and rip one-timers from distance instead of crash the net.

What irritates me is that grim-and-gritty guys like Colton and Wood can't even fill that role. Like, what is it you do if you can't do that!?

 

[BrickNHL]

Their two best net-front guys are both likely starting the year on LTIR. And MacKinnon far too often likes to lean back and rip one-timers from distance instead of crash the net.

What irritates me is that grim-and-gritty guys like Colton and Wood can't even fill that role. Like, what is it you do if you can't do that!?

The lack of grit from Colton and Wood was super frustrating in the playoffs. $6.5 million to a couple of guys just skating around

 

[dahrougem2]

The lack of grit from Colton and Wood was super frustrating in the playoffs. $6.5 million to a couple of guys just skating around

This is something I always put the blame on Bednar for.

It seems like damn near EVERY player with a physical edge to his game gets it coached out of him the very instant he joins the Avalanche.

Bednar doesn't seem to like physical hockey. He wants players to check pucks, not check other players. It's maddening, but it's who we've got for a coach for better or worse.

Players like Wood, Colton, Duhaime, Trenin, etc don't just forget how to throw hits. IMO the only player who basically doesn't give a f*** about what Bednar preaches is Josh Manson.

 

[BrickNHL]

This is something I always put the blame on Bednar for.

It seems like damn near EVERY player with a physical edge to his game gets it coached out of him the very instant he joins the Avalanche.

Bednar doesn't seem to like physical hockey. He wants players to check pucks, not check other players. It's maddening, but it's who we've got for a coach for better or worse.

Players like Wood, Colton, Duhaime, Trenin, etc don't just forget how to throw hits. IMO the only player who basically doesn't give a f*** about what Bednar preaches is Josh Manson.

It’s why it makes no sense for us to pay the “premium” for physical players when we’re not even gonna use them

 

[dahrougem2]

It’s why it makes no sense for us to pay the “premium” for physical players when we’re not even gonna use them

It's why the idea of Bednar's "preferred" bottom six style doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What Bednar wants is fast, skilled hockey players with at least some size or some grit (or both) to them. It's why the Newhook/Compher/Burakovsky/NAK quartet worked well as the 3rd line during the 2022 run. They were fast, they had skill, and they battled hard.

Colton and Wood play hard, but they lack major amounts of skill.

Bednar has an identity crisis.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Yup. Regardless of the horses, score, style of the other team, etc... Bednar plays his system and it works or it doesn't. This is why when we talk about guys like Ritchie on the third line that it just won't work. Not because Ritchie couldn't possibly do it, but Bednar has a style for his bottom 6 that he's going to adhere to strongly. Not adhering to that style is a very quick way to lose minutes.

My only question would be that in most of my jobs there has always been a section in our annual reviews where we review the previous year's eval and whether or not my goals had been met, and then we will discuss goals for the new year. Usually this is identifying areas where I can try to effect change, whether it be through reevaluating procedures to increase efficiency or whatever. Do GMs challenge their coaches on specific things? Like to develop a secondary system? How deep do GMs get into these sorts of discussions with coaches? I imagine it varies quite a bit from GM to GM, but I'm always fascinated on how the stuff works behind the scenes.

 

[S E P H]

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[Balthazar]

It's why the idea of Bednar's "preferred" bottom six style doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What Bednar wants is fast, skilled hockey players with at least some size or some grit (or both) to them. It's why the Newhook/Compher/Burakovsky/NAK quartet worked well as the 3rd line during the 2022 run. They were fast, they had skill, and they battled hard.

Colton and Wood play hard, but they lack major amounts of skill.

Bednar has an identity crisis.

It's not that Bednar doesn't want them to play physical, it's that he doesn't want them to take penalties so players are less likely to play physical. Same thing happened to Duhaime and Trenin.

Duhaime in particular was a LOT more physical with the Wild than he was with the Avs. If you take away his physical edge he doesn't have much to offer.

 

[dahrougem2]

It's not that Bednar doesn't want them to play physical, it's that he doesn't want them to take penalties so players are less likely to play physical. Same thing happened to Duhaime and Trenin.

Duhaime in particular was a LOT more physical with the Wild than he was with the Avs. If you take away his physical edge he doesn't have much to offer.

Oh I think it's very obvious he doesn't want the Avs to play a physical brand of hockey.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Oh I think it's very obvious he doesn't want the Avs to play a physical brand of hockey.

I think it's engrained into the Avalanche's DNA. They turned Darius Kasparaitis into a cuddly p***y cat and then while it was a pretty damn effective line, I think all three members of the KGB line were more physical in their previous stops.

 

[PAZ]

Bednar is a lot more lenient with defensemen than forwards - as long as they don't make hits that could potentially lead to an odd man rush. I also think Bednar is okay with forwards playing physical, but they need to be able to get back into position and maintain his system... which is near impossible unless you know it'll cause a turnover.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813932661901337054

 

[Chiarelli]

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Shop now for Tahoe Knight Monsters official merch!

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“Give me the San Jose and Vegas f***ed and had a baby look for a jersey”

 

[Chiarelli]

I think it's engrained into the Avalanche's DNA. They turned Darius Kasparaitis into a cuddly p***y cat and then while it was a pretty damn effective line, I think all three members of the KGB line were more physical in their previous stops.

Avs are a high skill, low IQ, no dirty area, no physicality team (generally as a whole).
Which is hilarious that I like this team because I played hockey the exact opposite way.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Manson would be long gone if that was the case.