Around the League - 2023/24

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Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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I don't disagree, but slippery slope arguments work.

Until all the powers that control things want change, there won't be change. For them to want change, something major will have to happen first.

Things DID kinda change as far as the widespread use of goons that one offseason when the NHL's two best fighters both died in incidents that had quite a bit to do with their chosen vocation and role, and in that same four-month span Wade Belak died as well. I feel like the NHL brass, especially when they put George Parros in charge of "Player Safety," has been pushing back like hell against that.

It's just so stupid. Football is the most popular sport in the U.S. by far. There's no tolerance for extracurriculars to the point where they even way overcompensate to protect quarterbacks and wide receivers, and yet it's still an insanely violent sport. Hockey could still be rough-and-tumble as hell, hell I'd argue it'd be even more violent once you cleaned it up and took out the cross-checking and needless scrums and entanglements and just focused on actual gameplay, but alas, that is a Super Mario-sized pipe dream.

So I guess it's just gonna take another Steve Moore incident or something but more like a star player's career gets ended.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Things DID kinda change as far as the widespread use of goons that one offseason when the NHL's two best fighters both died in incidents that had quite a bit to do with their chosen vocation and role, and in that same four-month span Wade Belak died as well. I feel like the NHL brass, especially when they put George Parros in charge of "Player Safety," has been pushing back like hell against that.

It's just so stupid. Football is the most popular sport in the U.S. by far. There's no tolerance for extracurriculars to the point where they even way overcompensate to protect quarterbacks and wide receivers, and yet it's still an insanely violent sport. Hockey could still be rough-and-tumble as hell, hell I'd argue it'd be even more violent once you cleaned it up and took out the cross-checking and needless scrums and entanglements and just focused on actual gameplay, but alas, that is a Super Mario-sized pipe dream.

So I guess it's just gonna take another Steve Moore incident or something but more like a star player's career gets ended.
It takes major things to make change.

Even the NFL took major things to change. The whole CTE issue had to really gain steam (after so many years of denying). For QBs, Brady (and other star QBs) had to have years taken from them. Even then, many fans hate the QB rules. Always a talking point each weekend. If tomorrow somebody lumberjacks McDavid’s knee as a retaliation and McDavid gets a major injury from it… then maybe the conversation starts. If we are just talking an intentional high stick, late hit, board… we just aren’t likely to see any momentum.
 

dahrougem2

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Dec 9, 2011
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Wait... He said it was. It was recorded on an open mic, but he still says he didn't do it?

...ok...


He said Perfetti kept asking him, and Hartman said he didn't deny it but that he didn't admit to it. And then Perfetti proceeded to tell all his teammates Hartman did it on purpose.

His last bit was reflective of the overarching issue. "I'm not going to apologize for high sticking him. I didn't see Dillon apologize for cross checking Kirill."
 

Ceremony

How I choose to feel is how I am
Jun 8, 2012
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I’m not a Jamal Mayers fan, but Jennifer Botterill once again out to lunch.



“What if that was your son” 😭😭💀💀

Go lose to 16 year old boys some more. Women’s hockey lol

1145994.jpg
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Wait... He said it was. It was recorded on an open mic, but he still says he didn't do it?

...ok...


Hartman is one of the whiniest, most thin-skinned players in the league. I'm not surprised at all he's raising a big stink about it and trying to spin it despite all the obvious evidence.
 
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Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Incidentally, what the actual f*** has happened to Jonas Siegenthaler? That guy was looking like the steal of steals when he first showed up in New Jersey, but the last two seasons his game has fallen completely off.
 

McMetal

Writer of Wrongs
Sep 29, 2015
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Reality doesn't really care if you agree with it or not. You cheap shot a star, your stars will be cheap shotted. Hate, love, despise, yell, etc... it doesn't matter because that is the reality of the game. And none of the parties that have the power to change it, care to change it.
Just because it isn't going to change anytime soon doesn't mean I'm going to stop pointing out that it's stupid and bad for the sport. The American healthcare system isn't likely to change, either, but I'm still not going to shut up about how it's immoral to profit off of people's life and death medical decisions.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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Incidentally, what the actual f*** has happened to Jonas Siegenthaler? That guy was looking like the steal of steals when he first showed up in New Jersey, but the last two seasons his game has fallen completely off.
He was fine last season... not quite as good as before, but still good. His issue is there is basically zero offense to his game so he has to be paired with a high end offensive guy. If you look at the underlying, he's not all that far off from his priors. There is zero finishing and he's making mistakes with the puck because he's being relied on to handle it more.

Just because it isn't going to change anytime soon doesn't mean I'm going to stop pointing out that it's stupid and bad for the sport. The American healthcare system isn't likely to change, either, but I'm still not going to shut up about how it's immoral to profit off of people's life and death medical decisions.

You're free to do that and have that opinion. But just like the American health care system, you're powerless to do anything about it.
 

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
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Just because it isn't going to change anytime soon doesn't mean I'm going to stop pointing out that it's stupid and bad for the sport. The American healthcare system isn't likely to change, either, but I'm still not going to shut up about how it's immoral to profit off of people's life and death medical decisions.
Well put.
 

AllAboutAvs

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He was fine last season... not quite as good as before, but still good. His issue is there is basically zero offense to his game so he has to be paired with a high end offensive guy. If you look at the underlying, he's not all that far off from his priors. There is zero finishing and he's making mistakes with the puck because he's being relied on to handle it more.



You're free to do that and have that opinion. But just like the American health care system, you're powerless to do anything about it.
But this is not true. When enough people screams against something eventually things change. We are not there yet because there are still too many old school type of people as fans and in charge.
 

henchman21

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But this is not true. When enough people screams against something eventually things change. We are not there yet because there are still too many old school type of people as fans and in charge.
The powers that control things don’t care and won’t until something major happens.
 

AllAboutAvs

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Nah it’ll be a McDavid like player getting a debilitating injury. It won’t be a fan thing.
Ah but because it would be McDavid that is when enough fans and media would gang up to demand change. We can go all day like this....;)
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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Ah but because it would be McDavid that is when enough fans and media would gang up to demand change. We can go all day like this....;)
And I’ll still be right… because owners and NHLPA care more about those instances than some random fans.
 

AllAboutAvs

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And I’ll still be right… because owners and NHLPA care more about those instances than some random fans.
And I would still be right because it still comes down to the amount of pressure. You have majority of fans, the media, and then you add the NHLPA and the owners to that and the NHL is then forced to make the change.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
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And I would still be right because it still comes down to the amount of pressure. You have majority of fans, the media, and then you add the NHLPA and the owners to that and the NHL is then forced to make the change.
Nah the owners are worried about their star investment. This is like the NFL with Brady. Most fans hate the rules, but they are that way because Brady got hurt.
 

The Abusement Park

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Jan 18, 2016
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Incidentally, what the actual f*** has happened to Jonas Siegenthaler? That guy was looking like the steal of steals when he first showed up in New Jersey, but the last two seasons his game has fallen completely off.
Only this season really. He was unbelievable for the Devils last year.
 

expatriatedtexan

Habitual Line Stepper
Aug 17, 2005
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Big hit. I'd want/expect Manson or Wood to respond like Kurashev did as well.

...but, it's a legal check, and folks really shouldn't have to defend themselves for throwing legal hits. Even big ones like this. Big Z shouldn't have been jumped for dropping Scheifele either. But if you are going to do it, do it like this. Go straight at the guy that did the thing immediately and then be done with it.
 

S E P H

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Mar 5, 2010
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I think there is some naivety here by the comments on the last couple of pages. Bob McKenzie mentioned this years back, but it is a quote I agree with him and it's that hockey is the modern-day version of gladiators. You can protect the players so much, but players will get hurt with hits and just the physical demands of the sport. I would cater for the side of waivers where the players know what they are getting themselves into. Just like people who go to that stupid Burning Man thing know what they're getting themselves into as well.

When I was doing health research for sports (specifically in concussions), I came across a prior article - but still relevant - which showed the types of injuries each sport played, both females and males. Hockey wasn't actually in the top 3-5 of any sport when it came to total or types of injuries, which you get more from the likes of futball, throwball, rugby, and basketball. The outliner on hockey in regards to injuries was concussion rates, which was top 3 along with throwball and I believe boxing/MMA. The data had some other interesting elements, girls' volleyball was just as prone to sustaining concussions compared to men playing hockey. You can potentially get injured in worse ways playing hockey compared to others, no doubt about that, but if we're at the point where girls' volleyball is "deemed" dangerous by Gen Z philosophers, then we should just stop sports altogether.

I do think fighting can impact lives negatively like shortening lives or causing personality changes which I truly believe is what happened to Antonio Brown (in his case, multiple concussion history). The problem though is that MMA, Boxing, and other martial arts are just as popular as ever before and continue to increase worldwide. These would have to stop existing before looking at hockey and whining about violence. We've had some ugly moments in the NHL when it comes to blades and hockey sticks, but fortunately, it is more of a fluke once-in-a-generation or lifetime moment and not the norm. In MMA, you can beat on a person untold amount until the ref steps in. Honestly, just look at human history. Look at the requirements of what you had to do to be a Spartan. Look at the sports that were in the first couple of Greek Olympics. Look at ancient Aztecs where they played that ancient basketball/futball sport with rubber balls and the losers were sacrificed to the gods (lol). Violence has been around since the dawn of civilisation, especially in sport mode. Arguing against it is like arguing against your existence of being a human. If somebody comes and starts beating you, you're going to fight back.

Now, there are ways to make something safer, in the case of Hartman, you had to suspend his arse for like two weeks and players wouldn't do the retaliation stuff, but I understand there is a rule that prevents them to do so. The best aspect to accept the beautiful violence of the sport, but to stop the side stuff is to have a very over-the-top controlling department of players' safety. Since hockey does not have that with Parros at the helm, you're going to get things like this nature. Remember, sports devolves humanity back to tribalism, it is your team versus mine and I hope nothing but failure for your team sort of mentality. Hockey can take it another notch because it allows physicality in the game, that is part of its DNA and what makes it also amazing.

E: I like women's hockey, there is also fighting in women's hockey whose entire existence has been non-contact.
 
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