Around the League - 2023/24

[RoyIsALegend]

Sorry for opening it but...

Do they accept trans women in the PWHL?

Of course not, lol.

They’re biologically men and will always have an unfair advantage over women.

https://thehockeynews.com/womens/other-news/excluding-trans-women-from-womens-hockey-examining-the-roots

 

[Pokecheque]

To give some context:

The Canadian National Women's team routinely tours Canada playing games against Midget AAA teams, which are comprised of 15-17 year old kids.

The games are no-contact, but the women routinely lose to these Midget AAA teams.

I got that part. He doesn’t need to take the “You don’t know anything about the game because you’re a woman” slant to invalidate her argument.

Of course not, lol.

They’re biologically men and will always have an unfair advantage over women.

https://thehockeynews.com/womens/other-news/excluding-trans-women-from-womens-hockey-examining-the-roots

View attachment 796282

Not in arguments.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I got that part. He doesn’t need to take the “You don’t know anything about the game because you’re a woman” slant to invalidate her argument.


Not in arguments.

Man I just knew the first responses in here would be from you. This is too easy.

Just out of curiosity what color is your hair this week

Let’s not take this stuff so seriously.

Botterill has the opinion of somebody who played a professional sport without any body contact or understanding what it takes to win a Stanley Cup.

Jamal Mayers, a talentless plug, played over 800 NHL games and has experience here. He knows what he’s talking about. There’s retaliation in hockey and it will never go away.

 

[Pokecheque]

Man I just knew the first responses in here would be from you. This is too easy.

Just out of curiosity what color is your hair this week

And I knew a meathead comment was coming from you before that. I ain’t the only one who’s predictable.

 

[dahrougem2]

I got that part. He doesn’t need to take the “You don’t know anything about the game because you’re a woman” slant to invalidate her argument.

I think in this specific scenario, Botterill was a bit out of her element because she's never played a contact sport, nor played without a full cage. I understand why she's upset about the high stick (though she didn't seem overly upset about the crosschecks that actually caused the retaliation) but she genuinely would not understand what was happening here the same way Mayers does.

Most anything else hockey related, she's been more than fine. Lord knows she's miles better than Cassie Campbell IMO but this was one thing I felt like she got super riled up over without ever having experienced that element of retaliation on the ice and why it happens.

 

[Pokecheque]

FTR I’m not even here to slag Mayers. It’s true he knows “the code” like the back of his hand. And yeah that’s been the law of the land in hockey for generations. But it’s also utter horseshit and any serious arguments supporting its existence get torn apart pretty easily when logic is applied.

The sad reality is that we’ll never see anything change unless the league actually gets serious about cracking down on cheap shots. And we know they never will.

 

[JWK]

"Player X played in this sport so he knows what he's talking about" is probably the dumbest arguments in sports.

 

[Deadsy]

Tatar played at a 27 point pace while here.

He's playing at a 51 point pace in Seattle.

Then again, he's playing on the top line now with Matty Beniers and Jordan Eberle (though no PP time).

I imagine if he was stapled to MacKinnon's wing he would have been pacing the same amount of points as he is in Seattle.

Nobody can produce playing next to Ryan Johansen. Nobody.

Yeah, usage has huge influence:
4 minutes more ice time / game.
0,7 shots / game vs 1,75 shots / game.
5.3 S% vs. 21.4 S%

 

[McMetal]

I hate the kind of caveman hockey Mayers is touching himself over. Somebody cheap shots your star, so you intentionally cheap shot a different player who wasn't on the ice at the time to send a message that cheap shots won't be tolerated? The f*** kind of logic is that? Somebody on the Jets has to check Brodin in the jaw now to send a message to Hartman that cheap shots in retaliation for cheap shots will result in more cheap shots, and won't Hartman be sorry when that happens. F***ing stupid as hell, anybody can see that will just lead to more injuries to stars, which will make the game less fun to watch for casual fans who don't get to see their favorite players play because some smoothbrain like Hartman broke their hand over some shit that happened a month ago.

No wonder the NHL is a third-tier league, no other sport would tolerate intentional injury to one of their players over some knuckle-dragging shit like this. Basketball markets the skill of their stars, and it would be horrible for their business if those stars weren't on the court because they got kicked in the ankle. The NHL isn't popular because it insists on catering to the small minority of fans who fetishize senseless violence instead of the millions of people who want to see people score goals.

 

[Nihiliste]

I think some of you guys forget sometimes that “the code” isn’t imposed on the players, it’s an emergent property of organizing young men in a violent setting and a lot of the players like it. You can disallow the vigilante stuff top down like other sports, but without strict enforcement it will inevitably happen and many of the players will support it

 

[John Mandalorian]

I hate the kind of caveman hockey Mayers is touching himself over. Somebody cheap shots your star, so you intentionally cheap shot a different player who wasn't on the ice at the time to send a message that cheap shots won't be tolerated? The f*** kind of logic is that? Somebody on the Jets has to check Brodin in the jaw now to send a message to Hartman that cheap shots in retaliation for cheap shots will result in more cheap shots, and won't Hartman be sorry when that happens. F***ing stupid as hell, anybody can see that will just lead to more injuries to stars, which will make the game less fun to watch for casual fans who don't get to see their favorite players play because some smoothbrain like Hartman broke their hand over some shit that happened a month ago.

No wonder the NHL is a third-tier league, no other sport would tolerate intentional injury to one of their players over some knuckle-dragging shit like this. Basketball markets the skill of their stars, and it would be horrible for their business if those stars weren't on the court because they got kicked in the ankle. The NHL isn't popular because it insists on catering to the small minority of fans who fetishize senseless violence instead of the millions of people who want to see people score goals.

There have been players like Matt Cooke in the league. If Matt Cooke takes out the other teams star player, is retaliarion seriously only allowed against a player like Matt Cooke?

 

[Balthazar]

Is this bad?

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

There have been players like Matt Cooke in the league. If Matt Cooke takes out the other teams star player, is retaliarion seriously only allowed against a player like Matt Cooke?

Yes. If he took out a star player, take him out. Why would it be ok to take out someone else?

Retaliating against an unrelated player, other than the fact they play on the other team, is stupid shit. Retaliating for a dirty play with another dirty play is stupid shit. There are already mechanisms in the sport for self policing. Fight the guy. Take the instigator if you have to. But taking out a completely different dude who had nothing to do with it is absolutely f***ing ridiculous, and seems to be tolerated in this sport but no where else in society. It doesn't make any sense. These are people with careers and families to support. You want a star player injured, potentially seriously, because some plug on his team did a dumbass thing? I cannot wrap my head around that at all.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

There have been players like Matt Cooke in the league. If Matt Cooke takes out the other teams star player, is retaliarion seriously only allowed against a player like Matt Cooke?

I would prefer it was but we all know it is on all players. Why would another stars risk his career because of a stupid teammate? Yeah teammates can get really pissed at the Cookes and Hartmans on their team but he is not the one getting hurt back. The way to deal with these guys is not only suspensions but long suspensions as soon as there is an indication of a pattern with a player or it is evident there was intent to injured like it was in this case. We all know what Dillon was doing but it is harder to prove intent unfortunately. However there was absolutely no doubts in Hartman's intention in that instance even if he hadn't been caught on audio admitting he did it in purpose. Hurt those repeat offenders/dirty players where it hurts: not playing AND especially the wallet.

The main problem is the league accepting/backing the DoPS.

 

[Pokecheque]

Anyone here who says they'd be okay with Nathan MacKinnon getting his head taken off after Ross Colton laid a cheap shot on the opposing player's star is a complete and total liar. This is the kind of idiotic mentality that has kept hockey in the dark ages for generations despite being the fastest game in North America.

Hell, if it were reversed and say, Miles Wood took out Connor McDavid because Evander Kane took liberties with Cale Makar, I'd be absolutely furious with #28.

A completely rational, logical human being like Jennifer Botterill is not okay with this insane mode of thinking and she's being slagged for it. Again, I'm not even going after Mayers, he simply represents the meathead majority culture that perpetuates this bullshit.

 

[henchman21]

Reality doesn't really care if you agree with it or not. You cheap shot a star, your stars will be cheap shotted. Hate, love, despise, yell, etc... it doesn't matter because that is the reality of the game. And none of the parties that have the power to change it, care to change it.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Reality doesn't really care if you agree with it or not. You cheap shot a star, your stars will be cheap shotted. Hate, love, despise, yell, etc... it doesn't matter because that is the reality of the game. And none of the parties that have the power to change it, care to change it.

And I don't understand this. Both the league and the NHLPA should be pushing for those changes to protect their stars who are used to market the sport.

 

[John Mandalorian]

And I don't understand this. Both the league and the NHLPA should be pushing for those changes to protect their stars who are used to market the sport.

The stars and the run of the mill players are forced to be in the same union. Guess which type of player there are more of? The stars are kind of outnumbered.

 

[henchman21]

And I don't understand this. Both the league and the NHLPA should be pushing for those changes to protect their stars who are used to market the sport.

John nailed part of it. Part of it is also hockey is marketed as a rough and tumble sport still. So there is some thought that pulling that back means it will lose casual appeal.

There is just no temperature to change this. Just like there is no temperature for 20 power plays a game. Or to take out fighting. People are free to scream about it… but until the powers want change, it won’t happen.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

The stars and the run of the mill players are forced to be in the same union. Guess which type of player there are more of? The stars are kind of outnumbered.

Guess what would happen if the dirty players would be thrown out of the league if they don't stop those dirty plays.....yep they would be replaced by other players that would be paying those same union dues so no loss for the NHLPA and their stars are more protected.

John nailed part of it. Part of it is also hockey is marketed as a rough and tumble sport still. So there is some thought that pulling that back means it will lose casual appeal.

There is just no temperature to change this. Just like there is no temperature for 20 power plays a game. Or to take out fighting. People are free to scream about it… but until the powers want change, it won’t happen.

You can still have a physical game without dirty plays.

 

[henchman21]

You can still have a physical game without dirty plays.

I don't disagree, but slippery slope arguments work.

Until all the powers that control things want change, there won't be change. For them to want change, something major will have to happen first.

 

[LOFIN]

Is this bad?

He had a really good start to the season and people were wondering if this was finally it, he's broken through as a #2C.

Apparently not. At least he's not paid 10.5 like Huberdeau

 

[henchman21]

He had a really good start to the season and people were wondering if this was finally it, he's broken through as a #2C.

Apparently not. At least he's not paid 10.5 like Huberdeau

Yeah he's proving to be a streaky 3C. If he's hot, he can play 2C... if he's not, he doesn't hurt you defensively there, he just provides zero offense.

 

[ABasin]

Man I just knew the first responses in here would be from you. This is too easy.

Just out of curiosity what color is your hair this week

Let’s not take this stuff so seriously.

Botterill has the opinion of somebody who played a professional sport without any body contact or understanding what it takes to win a Stanley Cup.

Jamal Mayers, a talentless plug, played over 800 NHL games and has experience here. He knows what he’s talking about. There’s retaliation in hockey and it will never go away.

All true. But still, there are boundaries. Or guidelines, if you prefer.

If MacKinnon got run by a tough veteran guy on another team, it's not OK for MacDermid to go out and pound the shit out of that team's 18 year old 170 lb rookie. That's not how it should be done.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]