Around the League 2022-23 season

[SmytheKing]

Putting white in front of privilege is racial by definition. The terminology is a stereotype - I dont see how that can be debated. Advantages (privilege) come in all shapes and size.. intelligence, beauty, wealth, athletic ability, etc. Is it useful to single a skin color vs discuss privilige in general?

You're still not understanding the terminology and its implication. It's not saying all white people have it great. It's saying that, all things being equal, a white man will have an easier time than a black man. While there will always be exceptions to that rule, taken as a whole, this is just the truth. I've never been looked at suspiciously when I've been checking out at a supermarket (but I've seen POC watched while everyone else is ignored). I've never been told I can't get an apartment, while POC have been discriminated like this for generations. There are countless examples of these things happening and to deny them is just silly at this point. No one is asking you to feel guilty about these things either. Just be aware and work to (in whichever way you're able) make changes.

Stating some obvious: The USA was established by Europeans and most immigration came from Europe in its 1st 200 years (all mostly white) ... families had many years to establish themselves and gain wealth and places in society (privilege). But it wasnt handed to those that made it - plenty became poor and the underclass. Irish came in droves during potato famine - were discriminated against for many years and were considered lower class for a long time until they worked their way up.

This is patently untrue. The Homestead Act literally gave millions of acres of land to white people to migrate West and help settle it. That land has created wealth for generations that Black people did not have access to until several years later when they passed another law that allowed them to also participate. Though it was limited and southern (former) slaveowners did whatever they could to prevent them from doing so. It ended up being repealed a couple of years after passing.

This 3/5ths is directly tied to slavery and congressional representation in the South (it was a compromise that balanced the power between north and south since the north did not have slaves)..Slavery throughout history did not single out race - every race has been enslaved at one time or another. Most of the slaves in the south were black. If after emancipation they were counted as 3/5ths - that would be a different story. This is not to deny the disgusting level of racism leveled against post emancipated blacks esp in the South.

Let's agree to stop comparing slavery thousands of years ago to chattel slavery that the US employed for like 100+ years against Black people. It's unhelpful and the discussion is irrelevant. Same with the Irish Slave talk. It's not nearly the same thing.

To the point, he's free to not wear the jersey. Just sad that there are still people who have his beliefs. It's a bummer really.

 

[King'sPawn]

Putting white in front of privilege is racial by definition. The terminology is a stereotype - I dont see how that can be debated. Advantages (privilege) come in all shapes and size.. intelligence, beauty, wealth, athletic ability, etc. Is it useful to single a skin color vs discuss privilige in general? Stating some obvious: The USA was established by Europeans and most immigration came from Europe in its 1st 200 years (all mostly white) ... families had many years to establish themselves and gain wealth and places in society (privilege). But it wasnt handed to those that made it - plenty became poor and the underclass. Irish came in droves during potato famine - were discriminated against for many years and were considered lower class for a long time until they worked their way up.

Yes, advantages come in all shapes and sizes. But I outlined specifically the privilege that white people by and large don't have to worry about today, at least relative to other demographics. Unfortunately, I'm worried of going too far off topic, but the long and short of it is, the combination of redistricting and the historic attitude of "I don't want black people living in my neighborhood", black communities have been redistricted and given fewer funds to reduce access to education, giving them less socioeconomic opportunity, elevating crime rates in the neighborhoods, which creates a built-in tension, particularly with the police and black people, where neither side feels safe with the other. This is the foundation of what people mean by "systemic racism."

However, if you feel saying "white privilege" is racist, I apologize. It comes from a place of outlining one race of people not having to worry about ongoing systemic racism.

Regarding the other points, I'm worried about derailing it further; I mostly wanted to address the communications that what I said was racist and to provide the context behind it.

Circling with the above point about Provorov, though, is why it's important for athletes and celebrities to be aware of societal issues and why the league needs to have these nights and participations. Some people avoid news altogether, or they only watch news that aligns with their views (and I say this for both sides). Unfortunately, these discussions need to happen. Because politicians need to see what the masses care about to make sure all demographics are given equal opportunity to exist in peace and not threaten the life, liberty, and health of all other Americans.

 

[kingsholygrail]

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

LGBTQBBQ

This right here ain't it, and is pretty gross

 

[kingsholygrail]

This right here ain't it, and is pretty gross

It would be cannibalism right?

 

[AbsentMojo]

You're still not understanding the terminology and its implication. It's not saying all white people have it great. It's saying that, all things being equal, a white man will have an easier time than a black man. While there will always be exceptions to that rule, taken as a whole, this is just the truth. I've never been looked at suspiciously when I've been checking out at a supermarket (but I've seen POC watched while everyone else is ignored). I've never been told I can't get an apartment, while POC have been discriminated like this for generations. There are countless examples of these things happening and to deny them is just silly at this point. No one is asking you to feel guilty about these things either. Just be aware and work to (in whichever way you're able) make changes.

You're not understanding that the terminology white privilege is still stereotyping. POC is another stereotype. I thought it has been agreed in common culture that stereotyping is an evil because it takes away individual experience when evaluating a person.... do u disagree?

This is patently untrue. The Homestead Act literally gave millions of acres of land to white people to migrate West and help settle it. That land has created wealth for generations that Black people did not have access to until several years later when they passed another law that allowed them to also participate. Though it was limited and southern (former) slaveowners did whatever they could to prevent them from doing so. It ended up being repealed a couple of years after passing.

You're trying to negate my entire point with one counter example. The general point is not everyone starts with privilege many times its earned and when its not - it comes in many shapes and sizes not just the dominant skin color.

Let's agree to stop comparing slavery thousands of years ago to chattel slavery that the US employed for like 100+ years against Black people. It's unhelpful and the discussion is irrelevant.

It was relevant to my point re the 3/5ths rule was applied based on status as a slave, not color of their skin.

Same with the Irish Slave talk. It's not nearly the same thing.

I never said Irish were slaves - just pointing out that newcomers regardless of color had it hard and were discriminated against and lived as an underclass for many years.

To the point, he's free to not wear the jersey. Just sad that there are still people who have his beliefs. It's a bummer really.

Lets maybe not assume modern Western values should be everyone else's values. Each culture needs to decide for themselves... talk about privilege - the West thinks it knows best and wants to impose itself wherever it can. Maybe we need to let each culture figure it out at its own pace on their own terms.

 

[Nasti]

While we’re on the topic of politics in sports, can we finally get rid of the singing of the national anthems before the game?

I'll share my example in a short version. I've shared this story before.

Grew up in socal of course playing ice hockey. Middle eastern background. Experienced an extremely racist incident--and violent attack--during a game when i was 15. It happened right by the benches, within earshot of both, all the officials, and the entire (not a ton of people obviously, but think tournament parents) crowd. There were three players on the other team involved, and just me on mine. I walked out of there and had to have a hearing with the league. I needed stitches, but nothing really major. But the real pain began when I got dragged during the hearing and no one would stand up for me. The result? I got suspended TEN games--the three offending parties got absolutely nothing.

The point? All it took was no one supporting me to turn me off competitive hockey altogether. The people saying nothing may as well have been the kids throwing racist slurs and spearing me from the bench. My coaches may as well have been in on it.

We can't say 'hockey is for everyone' and then say 'well except them because it conflicts with my beliefs.' I said before I don't think Provorov tried to do that, I believe he may be sincerely dedicated to his culture and religion, but of course it's at odds with social progress. The problem with that is turning a blind eye to inequity means kids like me get turned off the game.

I appreciate the discussion and it seems like people are really talking and listening here. I don't think there's a 'right' answer. It's easy for me to say "just throw on the f***ing jersey for 10 minutes" but I can't fault him individually really either. Yet, the outcome may be like above for some people. What if I'm gay and Provorov is my favorite player? Yeah yeah don't meet your heroes and all that--just musing at this point. There's a message sent whether he intends it or not and that's the unfortunate byproduct of fame.

"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[kingsholygrail]

While we’re on the topic of politics in sports, can we finally get rid of the singing of the national anthems before the game?


"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - Martin Luther King Jr.

And we can stop honoring people in the pre-game too.

 

[KINGS17]

While we’re on the topic of politics in sports, can we finally get rid of the singing of the national anthems before the game?


"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - Martin Luther King Jr.

You have an uphill battle, my friend. I blame Rob Blake for the playing of the Canadian anthem.

The History of the National Anthem at Sporting Games - Brian Cain Peak Performance

We play the National Anthem at almost every sporting event in the United States. I realized I didn’t really know much about the history of the National Anthem, so I did some research. After all, winners know WHY they do what they do, and can describe what they do as a process so that their...

briancain.com

 

[johnjm22]

I enjoy the national anthems. I like the ceremony. I love hearing a great rendition by a talented vocalist.

There's something cool about having that shared moment before the start of an event.

Sports can be a way to foster good will between nations. I enjoy hearing the anthems of each country in international competition.

That said, if a player doesn't want to take part, or wants to kneel. That's their choice.

 

[KINGS17]

And we can stop honoring people in the pre-game too.

What you don't want to see Gretzky drop a puck for like the 1,000th time?

 

[Kurrilino]

Good for Provorov; stand up for what you believe in.

I would support this statement but his believes confuse me.
Especially in Christian churches, little boys are very desirable to the priests.

If any he should extremely support LGBQT

 

[Nasti]

You have an uphill battle, my friend.

The History of the National Anthem at Sporting Games - Brian Cain Peak Performance

We play the National Anthem at almost every sporting event in the United States. I realized I didn’t really know much about the history of the National Anthem, so I did some research. After all, winners know WHY they do what they do, and can describe what they do as a process so that their...

briancain.com

Not all traditions are good.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Do you really believe that "supporters of the 2nd Amendment" are as marginalized as LGBT?

Because I've known you for a long, long time, and that would easily be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you post here.

You can add this to the list then:

Full list of countries where homosexuality is outlawed:​

Hmm, I don't see Russia on the list.

Wether you agree with that lifestyle or not (I couldn't get a shit wether one does or not) this is an extremely ignorant and lazy post.

Hell, I'd even take calling me a Dipshit again over that. Do better man.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I would support this statement but his believes confuse me.
Especially in Christian churches, little boys are very desirable to the priests.

If any he should extremely support LGBQT

The church has nothing on schools though. You want a hotbed of pedophilia look no further than the LAUSD.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

This is patently untrue. The Homestead Act literally gave millions of acres of land to white people to migrate West and help settle it.

 

[Kurrilino]

The church has nothing on schools though. You want a hotbed of pedophilia look no further than the LAUSD.

Maybe this is where they educate priests

 

[KINGS17]

The church has nothing on schools though. You want a hotbed of pedophilia look no further than the LAUSD.

Nonsense, they are just "minor attracted persons".

 

[BringTheReign]

But Provorov didn't stop anyone from doing anything they wanted to do. If he does, then there's an issue, but he didn't. Didn't even say anything. Didn't say the NHL shouldn't do it. Didn't say the Flyers shouldn't do it. Didn't say the other players shouldn't do it. LeBron James did more going after Daryl Morey for daring to question China. But I guess Provorov doesn't have to say anything, as his lack of specific action betrays his thoughts. But then we get into thought crime territory, because again, he didn't stop anyone from doing anything. He individually chose to not wear a jersey that was still worn by whoever wanted to wear it.

I agree with all of that. I was responding specifically to folks here who were saying "keep politics out of sports" or "stick to sports." They've never been separate, and important barriers have been broken because of the connection between sports and politics. I think Racoon J said it best somewhere earlier in the thread, but when you're a public figure by choice you still have your freedom of speech but not freedom from criticism. It goes the same way for athletes who choose to speak out in support of a cause and get criticism for it in the other direction. When you're in the public eye and making millions, an action or non-action either way is going to get scrutinized.

 

[Nasti]

Here’s a relevant piece from a few years back. Same coach.

John Tortorella Says He Would Bench American Players Who Protest National Anthem

Edit: to be fair…

Tortorella reverses hardline stance on kneeling

 

[BringTheReign]

Pro sports fandoms are one of the few places these days where people share something meaningful in common despite coming from wide backgrounds of political, social, and religious viewpoints. It is a good sign that we can talk about something like this maturely here because the opportunities most people have to discuss difficult topics constructively are harder and harder to come by these days. It's something we can do here because once this dies down and points have been made we know we're all on the same team either rooting for the Kings to win their next Cup or more likely to drastically disappoint us and rip our hearts out of our chest spectacularly failing.

 

[KINGS17]

You don’t get to decide that he doesn’t get to decide!

Unlike the other poster, I don't want to decide. I respect one's right to free speech.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Provorov is a dunce. Dude pulls a stunt right before a franchise charity event, and is the third highest paid guy on a completely shitty team. What kind of bonehead decides to pull himself out of warmups last minute on a night that has been on the calendar for 6+ months.

Complete primadonna move to call attention to yourself for no reason. Is this dickhead some pillar of the community who is being asked to go against long standing public principles? No, he’s just a pro athlete who has cashed fat checks while pissing off his home team fans for not delivering.

Does he not have an agent who could have dealt with this prior to the game? I’d assume such “deeply held beliefs” would have been felt the minute it was announced what costume the players would wear for a 10 minute pregame skate.

This moron lives with his girlfriend. I guess his priest gives him a pass on that. Maybe he should have taken the warmups in a jersey that says all couples are welcome to play hockey, married or not.

 

[KINGS17]

Provorov is a dunce. Dude pulls a stunt right before a franchise charity event, and is the third highest paid guy on a completely shitty team. What kind of bonehead decides to pull himself out of warmups last minute on a night that has been on the calendar for 6+ months.

Complete primadonna move to call attention to yourself for no reason. Is this dickhead some pillar of the community who is being asked to go against long standing public principles? No, he’s just a pro athlete who has cashed fat checks while pissing off his home team fans for not delivering.

Does he not have an agent who could have dealt with this prior to the game? I’d assume such “deeply held beliefs” would have been felt the minute it was announced what costume the players would wear for a 10 minute pregame skate.

This moron lives with his girlfriend. I guess his priest gives him a pass on that. Maybe he should have taken the warmups in a jersey that says all couples are welcome to play hockey, married or not.

Now, if this was the timing, I can get behind your sentifment. How many players actually pay attention to what is on the team's promotional calendar though? Most of these guys are not paying very close attention to anything other than themselves.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Now, if this was the timing, I can get behind your sentifment. How many players actually pay attention to what is on the team's promotional calendar though? Most of these guys are not paying very close attention to anything other than themselves.

There are enough promotional nights in a season where the average fan isn’t feeling it. That’s part of unity IMO. Picking and choosing which ones are out of bounds is a no win situation, so why try to stand out if no harm is done.

Cynically, I’d rather see peaceful celebrations vs violent protests for any divisive issue.