Around the League 2022-23 season thread - part II

[JrFischer54]

Well I wouldn't want him here because he SUCKS as a Defenseman.

yeah i agree but use someone really good instead

if mcdavid does the same stunt would you still not want him on the devils if he became available?

 

[Saugus]

Stonewall was 1969. That’s fifty four years. The shift in attitudes is not that much younger than the dismantling of Jim Crow laws. To me, bigotry against gay people is as offensive as racial bigotry.

I’m actually not a fan of a lot of pride stuff because to me it smacks of empty gestures and corporate PR, but that doesn’t change the message it sends when you very visibly decide not to participate.

It is to me too. Let me say that first, lest anyone think I am arguing that what Provorov did was right, or that bigotry against gay people is acceptable. It is not.

But I don't think it's fair to say the civil rights and gay rights movements were on anywhere near the same timeline. Stonewall was the beginning, not the culminating Supreme Court decision that validated gay rights. The equivalent of the dismantling of Jim Crow laws (Brown v Board 1954, Loving v Virginia 1967, etc.) is instead Obergefell v Hodges, which was in 2015. Maybe Lawrence v Texas in 2003 counts, but that is still pretty recent. A full generation younger than civil rights.

Public opinion about LGBT people has changed rapidly (in the right direction) since then, but it is a newer shift in attitudes compared to racism.

 

[Guttersniped]

How is it getting worse? It's funny how we always hear "we need to have a discussion" on a hot topic but the one minute it happens they want to shut it down.

And as far as nothing happening to Provorov, this is not over for him by a long shot, his ignorance is likely going to cost him $$$ down the road. No one is going to want to have him push a product and it will hurt him when it comes to looking for a new contract because he's hurt his own value.

Because I don’t want hear about individual posters weird reasons they wouldn’t wear a pride shirt in some bizarre hypothetical fantasy situation? Because I don’t care?

This is not some weird hypothetical for me and I don’t give a shit about a homophobe’s ability to get future endorsement deals either.

 

[JrFischer54]

How is it getting worse? It's funny how we always hear "we need to have a discussion" on a hot topic but the one minute it happens they want to shut it down.

And as far as nothing happening to Provorov, this is not over for him by a long shot, his ignorance is likely going to cost him $$$ down the road. No one is going to want to have him push a product and it will hurt him when it comes to looking for a new contract because he's hurt his own value.

no one cares that much society has a 15 min attention span.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I'm really curious how this has only come up now when the NHL has been doing this night with every team in the league for how many years now?

 

[HBK27]

I have to say if you have gay friends and then told them you wouldn’t briefly put on a pro-tolerance shirt because “reasons”… well, that’s a hilarious thing to tell them honestly.

There's a difference between proactively deciding to do so in show of support versus being coerced by an employer to do something. In my example, I only spoke to the latter.

 

[Guttersniped]

There's a difference between proactively deciding to do so in show of support versus being coerced by an employer to do something. In my example, I only spoke to the latter.

Again, I don’t care.

 

[glenwo2]

yeah i agree but use someone really good instead

if mcdavid does the same stunt would you still not want him on the devils if he became available?

Well McDavid won't ever pull "the same stunt" so that's a moot point.

Try again.

 

[Lou is God]

Because I don’t want hear about individual posters weird reasons they wouldn’t wear a pride shirt in some bizarre hypothetical fantasy situation? Because I don’t care?

This is not some weird hypothetical for me and I don’t give a shit about a homophobe’s ability to get future endorsement deals either.

I thought you were talking about the discussion in general, I think I see the post you're referring to now.

 

[HBK27]

Again, I don’t care.

Yeah, I just saw that other post saying that.

My bad for not initially realizing that you didn't care when you chose to respond directly to what I had written on the topic that you've now expressly confirmed you do not in fact care about.

 

[JrFischer54]

I'm really curious how this has only come up now when the NHL has been doing this night with every team in the league for how many years now?

hes definitely not the only one that feels this way so someone has to be the first there definitely will be others now.

 

[Tundra]

How is it getting worse? It's funny how we always hear "we need to have a discussion" on a hot topic but the one minute it happens they want to shut it down.

And as far as nothing happening to Provorov, this is not over for him by a long shot, his ignorance is likely going to cost him $$$ down the road. No one is going to want to have him push a product and it will hurt him when it comes to looking for a new contract because he's hurt his own value.

Which is unfortunate because such concerns should be secondary and tertiary at best. All these leagues have become far too political, which is an outgrowth of the corporate-government complex. Do people really enjoy military night? I find it over-the-top and counterproductive.

 

[JrFischer54]

Well McDavid won't ever pull "the same stunt" so that's a moot point.

Try again.

lol ok way to dodge the question.

 

[glenwo2]

lol ok way to dodge the question.

Who's dodging?

I was stating fact.

 

[Saugus]

I'm really curious how this has only come up now when the NHL has been doing this night with every team in the league for how many years now?

Most players probably choose to go with the flow and avoid making political statements regardless of their personal beliefs, knowing that creating a spectacle could distract the team. That's my guess anyway.

But you're right, you would think it would come up before now, given how many NHL players have been outspoken about their faith.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

That’s not why people are defending him (or cheering him on).

Defend his right to express from who or what? Criticism? Nothing happened to him. How about gay fans of his that now know he views them as monsters?

Again, nothing is happening to him.

Interesting take. Where did you pull that quote that says he views gay fans as "monsters"?

What is disturbing is that organizations feel it is their right to promote these political causes as if they speak for all fans (they do not).

Taking a far more realistic view, these nights are not based on any great altruism but rather motivated by financial concerns to avoid any potential loss of profits based on the cancel crowd.

Knowing the potential consequences, Provorov is showing far more integrity than his detractors (or than those who merely go along to get along rather than standing for their convictions).

 

[glenwo2]

Most players probably choose to go with the flow and avoid making political statements regardless of their personal beliefs, knowing that creating a spectacle could distract the team. That's my guess anyway.

But you're right, you would think it would come up before now, given how many NHL players have been outspoken about their faith.

I think it has more to do with realizing it would negatively affect future contract negotiations and/or Future earnings if they put themselves out there in such an unflattering light.

 

[Lou is God]

Which is unfortunate because such concerns should be secondary and tertiary at best. All these leagues have become far too political, which is an outgrowth of the corporate-government complex. Do people really enjoy military night? I find it over-the-top and counterproductive.

Politics in every aspect in our lives is not healthy for our society as a whole. People need escapes from reality and sports is not reality, it's entertainment.

 

[Tundra]

Most players probably choose to go with the flow and avoid making political statements regardless of their personal beliefs, knowing that creating a spectacle could distract the team. That's my guess anyway.

But you're right, you would think it would come up before now, given how many NHL players have been outspoken about their faith.

I speculate you are right. There are probably far more detractors who will wear the jersey, so not to impact potential contract earnings.

 

[Guadana]

Some of us have. And ok and Gritsyuk.

If it were up to me I'd reassign every scout we have in that country.

Of course you are.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Interesting take. Where did you pull that quote that says he views gay fans as "monsters"?

What is disturbing is that organizations feel it is their right to promote these political causes as if they speak for all fans (they do not).

Taking a far more realistic view, these nights are not based on any great altruism but rather motivated by financial concerns to avoid any potential loss of profits based on the cancel crowd.

Knowing the potential consequences, Provorov is showing far more integrity than his detractors (or than those who merely go along to get along rather than standing for their convictions).

the fact that you think promoting inclusion in hockey is a "political cause" is a HUGE you problem, my dude.

"Provorov is showing integrity" lmao oh my god. What, exactly, are his "consequences"? He played 23 minutes in the game.

 

[Saugus]

I think it has more to do with realizing it would negatively affect future contract negotiations and/or Future earnings if they put themselves out there in such an unflattering light.

Yes, and I think that's related. Stuff like this that derails a team or makes them look bad, is what gets a guy labeled a "locker room troublemaker". GMs might avoid a guy like that, even if his playing ability alone would make them consider him. Most players have the good sense to avoid all that, some don't.

 

[glenwo2]

@Zajacs Bowl Cut Wouldn't his consequences happen in Free Agency?

I don't think any team would want him.

 

[HBK27]

I speculate you are right. There are probably far more detractors who will wear the jersey, so not to impact potential contract earnings.

It's not just contract earnings - Provorov will now certainly be vilified by a good portion of NHL fanbases and nearly all of the journalists for this decision and it will follow him around the rest of his career. A hell of a lot easier to just go with the flow.

 

[Lou is God]

Oh shit man, I made plans to go mountain biking this morning and it's already 10:30am.

What this idiot believes in is antiquated, everyone is free to love who they want, love knows no gender.

Cheers.