Around the League - 2022-23 Season Edition

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I saw Mike Commodore going off over Mike Babcock getting hired by Columbus. Mike Commodore may be (probably is) right in every way about Babcock (it's his pattern of behaviour) but Mike Babcock is not the reason he can't move on from the past. Many of us have to deal with way worse things in our pasts than a mean boss for 6 months.
 
What a weird situation with DeBrincat in Ottawa. He's probably not worth his qualifying offer ($9M per) despite being a significant offensive talent otherwise. No team in their right mind would acquire him unless they have an extension worked out ahead of time. Ottawa are probably losing out on the return considering what they paid last summer.
 
What a weird situation with DeBrincat in Ottawa. He's probably not worth his qualifying offer ($9M per) despite being a significant offensive talent otherwise. No team in their right mind would acquire him unless they have an extension worked out ahead of time. Ottawa are probably losing out on the return considering what they paid last summer.
A lot of people thought it was a strange move at the time... They had multiple young guys about to get huge extensions, and then go out and add another guy that will get a raise for a premium price...

Was a head scratcher at the time, like you could easily see this scenario playing out but they did it anyways.
 
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I saw Mike Commodore going off over Mike Babcock getting hired by Columbus. Mike Commodore may be (probably is) right in every way about Babcock (it's his pattern of behaviour) but Mike Babcock is not the reason he can't move on from the past. Many of us have to deal with way worse things in our pasts than a mean boss for 6 months.

He's just trying to stay relevant. The world has forgotten about Commodore. He needs to find closure and move on
That's some serious infatuation with Babcock. It's like an ex girlfriend who can let go
 
but spending big money on a good goalie is usually less effective than paying it on a forward (especially) and then a defenseman.
Except when it's $10M+ Price and Bob outing the Leafs in the playoffs.

But sure let's compare the Leafs to the Avs and Golden Knights who've proven to be far more balanced and effective teams in the playoffs.
 
Great signing by the Kings. Gavrikov at 5.8 is a steal.
near 6 mil for a one dimensional stay at home defender ...i think thats about 2 mil more than he should have made as an open market ufa
Hope someone gives Holl 4+ as a PK specialist, even though he sucks at it ...'but he has a good stick' <lots o sarcasm, if it isnt obvious>
 
Good weather. Big us market.
High taxes

He didn’t take a discount. Taxes are the determinjng factor in AAV for prime age players
you know US players have a cross state jock tax its why Clayton Kershaw has a massive bonus portion of his contract paid out when he's living in Texas so he pays nil taxes on it
 
Rask, Holtby, Korpisalo, Price, Vasi, and now Bob.
They even get to play the villain in Ayre's upcoming Disney movie due to this lame excuse.
I mean, first off, we did not get "goalie'd" by Ayres. Not even remotely close. Ayres sucked against us. He had an 0.800 SV% and a deeply negative GSAx, and of the 4 emergency goalies that have played in the NHL, he is the only one to allow a goal (he allowed 2). Carolina is who dominated the last period of that game that they were already easily winning, and it was pretty obvious that neither Toronto or Andersen had their A game or even B game that night long before Ayres came in.

As for the others...
Holtby: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.926 career playoff SV% (97 GP)
Rask: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.925 career playoff SV% (104 GP)
Rask: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.925 career playoff SV% (104 GP)
Korpisalo: Playoff save record, 0.922 career playoff SV% (15 GP)
Price: Vezina, Jennings, Hart, Lindsay, 0.919 career playoff SV% (92 GP)
Vasilevsky: Vezina, Cup, Cup, Conn Smythe, single-playoff win record, series-clinching shutout record, 0.921 career playoff SV% (110 GP)
Vasilevsky: Vezina, Cup, Cup, Conn Smythe, single-playoff win record, series-clinching shutout record, 0.921 career playoff SV% (110 GP)
Bobrovsky: Vezina, Vezina

Any goalie can go on a hot run, but would it really be that surprising for these goalies specifically to go on hot runs? These were some of the best goalies of this era, that have demonstrated an ability to play at that high level for periods of time much longer than a series. The only one who isn't is Korpisalo, but a heavily injured Columbus that year was the best defensive team the league has seen in a non-Covid division year in over half a decade, and Toronto was playing a shortened best-of-5 games in 8 nights in a dead, crowdless arena in a bubble in the middle of a pandemic, after not playing and barely skating for 5 months, so it's a bit hard to look too much into that, especially when Korpisalo would continue on to put up the all-time playoff save record against the eventual Cup champs in the very next game.

Also...we did not get "goalie'd" in every series. This is the goaltending our opponents received in each series:

Washington 2017: +2.55 GSAx in 6 games
Boston 2018: +0.55 GSAx in 7 games
Boston 2019: +1.41 GSAx in 7 games
Columbus 2020: +6.00 GSAx in 5 games
Montreal 2021: +6.83 GSAx in 7 games
Tampa 2022: +1.53 GSAx in 7 games
Tampa 2023: -3.09 GSAx in 6 games
Florida 2023: +9.58 GSAx in 5 games

So in actuality, you could argue we got "goalie'd" in 3 of our 8 series - Columbus, Montreal, and Florida. Those are the only ones where the goalie performed above what is generally expected from them, instead of what is expected or worse. Two of those came during Covid with no crowds, two of those teams rode those goalies to the Stanley Cup Final, and none of those teams lost to anybody except the Cup champions.

Let's take a look at the goaltending that the teams that beat us received in their subsequent series:

Washington 2017 round 2: -3.75 GSAx in 7 games
Boston 2018 round 2: -0.29 GSAx in 5 games
Boston 2019 round 2: +6.88 GSAx in 6 games
Columbus 2020 round 1: +3.69 GSAx in 5 games
Montreal 2021 round 2: +1.82 GSAx in 4 games
Tampa 2022 round 2: +9.41 GSAx in 4 games
Florida 2023 round 3: +10.32 GSAx in 4 games

So in 50 playoff games against us, our opponent's goalies have averaged +0.507 GSAx per game.
In 35 playoff games against the teams our opponents faced directly after us, our opponent's goalies have averaged +0.802 GSAx per game.
So we're actually converting better than the teams that advanced and faced them next.
Why does it always happen to us? Serious question...why? Do you not think there could be something about the way we play that allows us to get goalied EVERY SINGLE YEAR since Dubas took over?
As you can see, it doesn't always happen to us. We've had it happen 3 times out of our 8 series, which would be more concerning if it wasn't happening even more to others who face the same goalies. And there's nothing that would really indicate Dubas being a factor.

Could there be something unique to a team that could cause them to "get goalie'd" more? Sure, it's possible.
Maybe the weight of the losses and market are making them hold their sticks a little tighter. (we averaged over a post a game in 2 of the 3 series we got "goalie'd" in)
Maybe the abnormal lack of PPs that we tend to get in our series benefits goaltenders. Maybe injuries have factored in, or the things our opponents disproportionally get away with.
But we're historically a good converting team, and pretty much everything indicates that the primary cause in the playoffs has been the goalies, some of the best goalies in the game, who go on to do the same thing to others. Who happen to be abundant in our division and conference on playoff teams, meaning we're going to run into them a lot. That doesn't mean that there aren't things we could improve, and maybe there is some deeper reason, but what we do know is it's not the reasons people spew, like we're soft, don't care, don't give effort, don't get good shots, don't go to the high danger areas, don't go to the dirty areas, etc. That's just objectively not true.
Between refs and getting goalied you'd think we're the only team that plays against the refs and hot goalies.
Most other teams lose against those things too, for the record, unless they have their own similarly hot goalie.
Do the Tampa series where we got outplayed virtually the whole series. You'll never admit that we didn't deserve to win that series. You want to have your cake and eat it too.
Tampa received -3.1 GSAx goaltending in the series, and Toronto received -1.6 GSAx in the series. We did not "get outplayed virtually the whole series". The series was basically taking turns significantly outplaying the other, and ended about as 50-50 as you can get - a 50.26 vs 49.74 percentage split. The only one trying to have their cake and eat it too is you, because pretty much any argument for suggesting we didn't deserve to win against Tampa this year would simultaneously mean that we deserved to win multiple past series.
 
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At one point Sharks were a factory for finding goalies

Kiprosoff
Nobokov
Toskala (he was good with the sharks at least)
Greiss
Niemi
Whenever I think of "recent" goalie factories, San Jose was one...Montreal was the other.

In the mid-90s, they drafted:

Theodore
Vokoun (same draft)
Garon

(Oddly enough all southpaw catchers)

All the while having Thibault (at one point pretty good, acquired in the Roy deal) and Jablonski backing up (another southpaw). And of course in the midst of it all had Patrick Roy for a few years before the whole ordeal that saw him shipped off to Colorado.
 
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But you'd think even with us getting "goalie'd" as much as we do we'd maybe sink a bit more cap into goaltending since it seems to effective?

Dubas has actually allocated the least cap to goaltending out of basically every contender over the last 4-5 years. He instead opted to invest most of it in the core-4, who the same crowd makes excuses for every year when they underperform in the playoffs via getting "goalie'd"

Can't see the forest for the trees.
Youre making a few big assumptions here though. Youre assuming there's a predictability in their play, and not just good play but push your team to wins elite play and that theyre available.

Many of the "series stealing" performances have been surprising. As great as Price was, he barely played that whole year. Kopi has the best 10-14 days of his life and Bob is breaking through on year 5 of his 7 year deal. Im pretty sure this is the third year Florida has also started another goalie during their playoffs with him sitting healthy on the bench. Thats alot for a 10M goalie

Then theres the simple question of availability. While i dont think Vasi stole either series against us, hes been with TB his whole career. Same with Price.
 
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I mean, first off, we did not get "goalie'd" by Ayres. Not even remotely close. Ayres sucked against us. He had an 0.800 SV% and a deeply negative GSAx, and of the 4 emergency goalies that have played in the NHL, he is the only one to allow a goal (he allowed 2). Carolina is who dominated the last period of that game that they were already easily winning, and it was pretty obvious that neither Toronto or Andersen had their A game or even B game that night long before Ayres came in.

As for the others...
Holtby: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.926 career playoff SV% (97 GP)
Rask: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.925 career playoff SV% (104 GP)
Rask: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.925 career playoff SV% (104 GP)
Korpisalo: Playoff save record, 0.922 career playoff SV% (15 GP)
Price: Vezina, Jennings, Hart, Lindsay, 0.919 career playoff SV% (92 GP)
Vasilevsky: Vezina, Cup, Cup, Conn Smythe, single-playoff win record, series-clinching shutout record, 0.921 career playoff SV% (110 GP)
Vasilevsky: Vezina, Cup, Cup, Conn Smythe, single-playoff win record, series-clinching shutout record, 0.921 career playoff SV% (110 GP)
Bobrovsky: Vezina, Vezina

Any goalie can go on a hot run, but would it really be that surprising for these goalies specifically to go on hot runs? These were some of the best goalies of this era, that have demonstrated an ability to play at that high level for periods of time much longer than a series. The only one who isn't is Korpisalo, but a heavily injured Columbus that year was the best defensive team the league has seen in a non-Covid division year in over half a decade, and Toronto was playing a shortened best-of-5 games in 8 nights in a dead, crowdless arena in a bubble in the middle of a pandemic, after not playing and barely skating for 5 months, so it's a bit hard to look too much into that, especially when Korpisalo would continue on to put up the all-time playoff save record against the eventual Cup champs in the very next game.

Also...we did not get "goalie'd" in every series. This is the goaltending our opponents received in each series:

Washington 2017: +2.55 GSAx in 6 games
Boston 2018: +0.55 GSAx in 7 games
Boston 2019: +1.41 GSAx in 7 games
Columbus 2020: +6.00 GSAx in 5 games
Montreal 2021: +6.83 GSAx in 7 games
Tampa 2022: +1.53 GSAx in 7 games
Tampa 2023: -3.09 GSAx in 6 games
Florida 2023: +9.58 GSAx in 5 games

So in actuality, you could argue we got "goalie'd" in 3 of our 8 series - Columbus, Montreal, and Florida. Those are the only ones where the goalie performed above what is generally expected from them, instead of what is expected or worse. Two of those came during Covid with no crowds, two of those teams rode those goalies to the Stanley Cup Final, and none of those teams lost to anybody except the Cup champions.

Let's take a look at the goaltending that the teams that beat us received in their subsequent series:

Washington 2017 round 2: -3.75 GSAx in 7 games
Boston 2018 round 2: -0.29 GSAx in 5 games
Boston 2019 round 2: +6.88 GSAx in 6 games
Columbus 2020 round 1: +3.69 GSAx in 5 games
Montreal 2021 round 2: +1.82 GSAx in 4 games
Tampa 2022 round 2: +9.41 GSAx in 4 games
Florida 2023 round 3: +10.32 GSAx in 4 games

So in 50 playoff games against us, our opponent's goalies have averaged +0.507 GSAx per game.
In 35 playoff games against the teams our opponents faced directly after us, our opponent's goalies have averaged +0.802 GSAx per game.
So we're actually converting better than the teams that advanced and faced them next.

As you can see, it doesn't always happen to us. We've had it happen 3 times out of our 8 series, which would be more concerning if it wasn't happening even more to others who face the same goalies. And there's nothing that would really indicate Dubas being a factor.

Could there be something unique to a team that could cause them to "get goalie'd" more? Sure, it's possible.
Maybe the weight of the losses and market are making them hold their sticks a little tighter. (we averaged over a post a game in 2 of the 3 series we got "goalie'd" in)
Maybe the abnormal lack of PPs that we tend to get in our series benefits goaltenders. Maybe injuries have factored in, or the things our opponents disproportionally get away with.
But we're historically a good converting team, and pretty much everything indicates that the primary cause in the playoffs has been the goalies, some of the best goalies in the game, who go on to do the same thing to others. Who happen to be abundant in our division and conference on playoff teams, meaning we're going to run into them a lot. That doesn't mean that there aren't things we could improve, and maybe there is some deeper reason, but what we do know is it's not the reasons people spew, like we're soft, don't care, don't give effort, don't get good shots, don't go to the high danger areas, don't go to the dirty areas, etc. That's just objectively not true.

Most other teams lose against those things too, for the record, unless they have their own similarly hot goalie.

Tampa received -3.1 GSAx goaltending in the series, and Toronto received -1.6 GSAx in the series. We did not "get outplayed virtually the whole series". The series was basically taking turns significantly outplaying the other, and ended about as 50-50 as you can get - a 50.26 vs 49.74 percentage split. The only one trying to have their cake and eat it too is you, because pretty much any argument for suggesting we didn't deserve to win against Tampa this year would simultaneously mean that we deserved to win multiple past series.

No doubt they didn't get "goalied" in all of these series (I was just exaggerating to make a point) but the excuses have always been there. The excuses were there in the Washington series (too young/inexperienced) and they were there against Florida (Bob's goaltending).

To be fair, I have a strong feeling they would have lost the Tampa series too if that team was fully healthy.

I'm not questioning your stats or even the intent behind it, but ever take a step back to realize all the team does is lose? That's a lot of excuses (covid, no crowds, hot goalies, fewer PPs) for a team that won its first playoff series after 7 years of Marner + Matthews before getting dismissed by Florida.

I think underlying stats serve a purpose when the team is progressing. If they kept failing in the conference finals or the Stanley Cup finals then it can be seen as a bit of bad luck but what's been happening to this team is disgraceful.
 
But you'd think even with us getting "goalie'd" as much as we do we'd maybe sink a bit more cap into goaltending since it seems to effective?
But is it effective? The goalie position has the least correlation between pay and performance of any position by far. Allocating significant cap to goaltending is incredibly risky. It's great when you happen to fluke into them getting hot at the perfect moment, but there's generally a lot more time where they and that allocation are detrimental to your team, especially if you are paying somebody outside of the top top goalies in the league, which were pretty much all drafted by their current team a decade ago.

Yeah, Tampa won the cup with a high paid goalie one year when they used an LTIR cap loophole to basically nullify the entire cap hit, but otherwise... Hill is cheap... Kuemper was retained on and pretty cheap... Vasilevsky in 2020 was pretty cheap... Binnington was cheap... Murray was cheap...
Dubas has actually allocated the least cap to goaltending out of basically every contender over the last 4-5 years.
That's not true. Not sure where you got this idea.
 
I mean, first off, we did not get "goalie'd" by Ayres. Not even remotely close. Ayres sucked against us. He had an 0.800 SV% and a deeply negative GSAx, and of the 4 emergency goalies that have played in the NHL, he is the only one to allow a goal (he allowed 2). Carolina is who dominated the last period of that game that they were already easily winning, and it was pretty obvious that neither Toronto or Andersen had their A game or even B game that night long before Ayres came in.

As for the others...
Holtby: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.926 career playoff SV% (97 GP)
Rask: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.925 career playoff SV% (104 GP)
Rask: Vezina, Jennings, Cup, 0.925 career playoff SV% (104 GP)
Korpisalo: Playoff save record, 0.922 career playoff SV% (15 GP)
Price: Vezina, Jennings, Hart, Lindsay, 0.919 career playoff SV% (92 GP)
Vasilevsky: Vezina, Cup, Cup, Conn Smythe, single-playoff win record, series-clinching shutout record, 0.921 career playoff SV% (110 GP)
Vasilevsky: Vezina, Cup, Cup, Conn Smythe, single-playoff win record, series-clinching shutout record, 0.921 career playoff SV% (110 GP)
Bobrovsky: Vezina, Vezina

Any goalie can go on a hot run, but would it really be that surprising for these goalies specifically to go on hot runs? These were some of the best goalies of this era, that have demonstrated an ability to play at that high level for periods of time much longer than a series. The only one who isn't is Korpisalo, but a heavily injured Columbus that year was the best defensive team the league has seen in a non-Covid division year in over half a decade, and Toronto was playing a shortened best-of-5 games in 8 nights in a dead, crowdless arena in a bubble in the middle of a pandemic, after not playing and barely skating for 5 months, so it's a bit hard to look too much into that, especially when Korpisalo would continue on to put up the all-time playoff save record against the eventual Cup champs in the very next game.

Also...we did not get "goalie'd" in every series. This is the goaltending our opponents received in each series:

Washington 2017: +2.55 GSAx in 6 games
Boston 2018: +0.55 GSAx in 7 games
Boston 2019: +1.41 GSAx in 7 games
Columbus 2020: +6.00 GSAx in 5 games
Montreal 2021: +6.83 GSAx in 7 games
Tampa 2022: +1.53 GSAx in 7 games
Tampa 2023: -3.09 GSAx in 6 games
Florida 2023: +9.58 GSAx in 5 games

So in actuality, you could argue we got "goalie'd" in 3 of our 8 series - Columbus, Montreal, and Florida. Those are the only ones where the goalie performed above what is generally expected from them, instead of what is expected or worse. Two of those came during Covid with no crowds, two of those teams rode those goalies to the Stanley Cup Final, and none of those teams lost to anybody except the Cup champions.

Let's take a look at the goaltending that the teams that beat us received in their subsequent series:

Washington 2017 round 2: -3.75 GSAx in 7 games
Boston 2018 round 2: -0.29 GSAx in 5 games
Boston 2019 round 2: +6.88 GSAx in 6 games
Columbus 2020 round 1: +3.69 GSAx in 5 games
Montreal 2021 round 2: +1.82 GSAx in 4 games
Tampa 2022 round 2: +9.41 GSAx in 4 games
Florida 2023 round 3: +10.32 GSAx in 4 games

So in 50 playoff games against us, our opponent's goalies have averaged +0.507 GSAx per game.
In 35 playoff games against the teams our opponents faced directly after us, our opponent's goalies have averaged +0.802 GSAx per game.
So we're actually converting better than the teams that advanced and faced them next.

As you can see, it doesn't always happen to us. We've had it happen 3 times out of our 8 series, which would be more concerning if it wasn't happening even more to others who face the same goalies. And there's nothing that would really indicate Dubas being a factor.

Could there be something unique to a team that could cause them to "get goalie'd" more? Sure, it's possible.
Maybe the weight of the losses and market are making them hold their sticks a little tighter. (we averaged over a post a game in 2 of the 3 series we got "goalie'd" in)
Maybe the abnormal lack of PPs that we tend to get in our series benefits goaltenders. Maybe injuries have factored in, or the things our opponents disproportionally get away with.
But we're historically a good converting team, and pretty much everything indicates that the primary cause in the playoffs has been the goalies, some of the best goalies in the game, who go on to do the same thing to others. Who happen to be abundant in our division and conference on playoff teams, meaning we're going to run into them a lot. That doesn't mean that there aren't things we could improve, and maybe there is some deeper reason, but what we do know is it's not the reasons people spew, like we're soft, don't care, don't give effort, don't get good shots, don't go to the high danger areas, don't go to the dirty areas, etc. That's just objectively not true.

Most other teams lose against those things too, for the record, unless they have their own similarly hot goalie.

Tampa received -3.1 GSAx goaltending in the series, and Toronto received -1.6 GSAx in the series. We did not "get outplayed virtually the whole series". The series was basically taking turns significantly outplaying the other, and ended about as 50-50 as you can get - a 50.26 vs 49.74 percentage split. The only one trying to have their cake and eat it too is you, because pretty much any argument for suggesting we didn't deserve to win against Tampa this year would simultaneously mean that we deserved to win multiple past series.
Andersen his last 2 seasons here in the playoffs put up these numbers:

18/19- .922 SV % and 2.75 GAA
19/20- .936 SV % and 1.84 GAA

I'd say those are the stats of a goalie who played very well and could be considered a hot goalie, especially that 19/20 series. Then Campbell put up 1 very good playoff series in 20/21 with a .934 SV % and 1.81 GAA. 3 seasons in a row I'd say our goalies put up really good numbers but we still can't find ways to win those series. Last 2 years has been our worst goalie numbers with just under 900 SV % and a little over 3 GAA and we somehow won a series like that. Don't think it has anything to do with hot goalies or refs, maybe we just suck when things start to get tough and are too predictable.
 
No doubt they didn't get "goalied" in all of these series (I was just exaggerating to make a point) but the excuses have always been there. The excuses were there in the Washington series (too young/inexperienced) and they were there against Florida (Bob's goaltending).

To be fair, I have a strong feeling they would have lost the Tampa series too if that team was fully healthy.

I'm not questioning your stats or even the intent behind it, but ever take a step back to realize all the team does is lose? That's a lot of excuses (covid, no crowds, hot goalies, fewer PPs) for a team that won its first playoff series after 7 years of Marner + Matthews before getting dismissed by Florida.

I think underlying stats serve a purpose when the team is progressing. If they kept failing in the conference finals or the Stanley Cup finals then it can be seen as a bit of bad luck but what's been happening to this team is disgraceful.
Dont confuse reasons with excuses. There are a number of reasons weve lost series, stating them doesnt excuse it, but it can help explain it.
 
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