Around the League 2020-21 part 2 *Insert funny thread title here* edition

[johnjm22]

I didn't realize Ovechkin was a pending UFA.

That makes me feel old.

I'm remember when he signed that seemingly ridiculous contract back in 2008. I can't believe it's been 13 years.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Looks like the Jackets might be moving Savard out for a forward, as has been rumored

Is he an upgrade on Walker? Certainly more physical and played the Leafs tough last year.

 

[King'sPawn]

I am not saying they would have performed better without him, but Kopitar hasn't been a difference maker now has he.

They would have gone in a different direction, and the assets acquired in a deal for him might be bearing fruit today. We have no way of knowing for sure.

Teams don't go from bottom feeders to cup champions without a transition.

Kopitar is a capable, talented player as the team rebuilds.

Once again, the question of trading Kopitar is: who plays 1C?
- a prospect not ready
- a cheap UFA who is incapable and you are willingly setting up for failure
- a capable UFA, but 1Cs want money and job security, so you have to overpay them.

 

[KINGS17]

Teams don't go from bottom feeders to cup champions without a transition.

Kopitar is a capable, talented player as the team rebuilds.

Once again, the question of trading Kopitar is: who plays 1C?
- a prospect not ready
- a cheap UFA who is incapable and you are willingly setting up for failure
- a capable UFA, but 1Cs want money and job security, so you have to overpay them.

This guy, somewhere between the second and third choice. Who was playing 1c the season before Kopitar arrrived on the scene?

 

[KINGS17]

I didn't realize Ovechkin was a pending UFA.

That makes me feel old.

I'm remember when he signed that seemingly ridiculous contract back in 2008. I can't believe it's been 13 years.

We should definitely go get Ovie. Finally a talented winger for Kopitar! You guys should love this idea.

 

[HookKing]

So you're must mentally masturbating over possibilities. Consider what it would look like to the rest of the league if the Kings dumped every star after good performances. Who would sign here? Who would stay?

The answer of course is no one. I like how he keeps calling Kopitar's contract a mistake -- doubling down. In his fifth year he is for the second time considered a candidate for the Hart (not to mention a Selke thrown in there). So in the first five years of his contract only 2 of the 5 were or are anywhere near DFL. Not sure why someone that can't do simple math thinks he's an expert on contract value.

 

[Sparky206]

The answer of course is no one. I like how he keeps calling Kopitar's contract a mistake -- doubling down. In his fifth year he is for the second time considered a candidate for the Hart (not to mention a Selke thrown in there). So in the first five years of his contract only 2 of the 5 were or are anywhere near DFL. Not sure why someone that can't do simple math thinks he's an expert on contract value.

As far as ageing UFA contracts $8M+, Kopitars is one of the best going. Thats how much a 1C costs and he has delivered value his entire contract to this point.

 

[KINGS17]

The answer of course is no one. I like how he keeps calling Kopitar's contract a mistake -- doubling down. In his fifth year he is for the second time considered a candidate for the Hart (not to mention a Selke thrown in there). So in the first five years of his contract only 2 of the 5 were or are anywhere near DFL. Not sure why someone that can't do simple math thinks he's an expert on contract value.

1st year of curent contract 2016-17

2016-17, 5th in Pacific Division, 21st in NHL, missed playoffs
2017-18, 4th in Pacific Division, swept in first round by Vegas
2018-19, 8th in Pacific Division, next to DFL in NHL, obviously missed playoffs
2019-20, 7th in Pacific Division, 4th from DFL in NHL, obviously missed playoffs
2020-21, Currently 5th in Pacific Division, 18th in NHL, will probably miss playoffs or get knocked out in 1st round

Yes, these results are stellar, and just what you are hoping for when you sign a player to an 8-year deal.

 

[HookKing]

1st year of curent contract 2016-17

2016-17, 5th in Pacific Division, 21st in NHL, missed playoffs
2017-18, 4th in Pacific Division, swept in first round by Vegas
2018-19, 8th in Pacific Division, next to DFL in NHL, obviously missed playoffs
2019-20, 7th in Pacific Division, 4th from DFL in NHL, obviously missed playoffs
2020-21, Currently 5th in Pacific Division, 18th in NHL, will probably miss playoffs or get knocked out in 1st round

Yes, these results are stellar, and just what you are hoping for when you sign a player to an 8-year deal.

So DFL is now just the Pacific. Even so, 4th and 5th are nowhere near DFL. Just move those goalposts to (not) "stellar". The idea that any competent GM would not re-sign Kopitar after the Kings had 102 points is beyond laughable. BTW, assuming Luc held a gun to DL's head to re-sign Kopitar, how exactly is that Blake's "fault"?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

1st year of curent contract 2016-17

2016-17, 5th in Pacific Division, 21st in NHL, missed playoffs
2017-18, 4th in Pacific Division, swept in first round by Vegas
2018-19, 8th in Pacific Division, next to DFL in NHL, obviously missed playoffs
2019-20, 7th in Pacific Division, 4th from DFL in NHL, obviously missed playoffs
2020-21, Currently 5th in Pacific Division, 18th in NHL, will probably miss playoffs or get knocked out in 1st round

Yes, these results are stellar, and just what you are hoping for when you sign a player to an 8-year deal.

Imagine tying one player's value almost entirely to what everyone else around him does.

It took an MVP caliber year from Kopitar, a Norris caliber year from Doughty, and almost full nuclear Quick to drag that team kicking and screaming to the playoffs. That doesn't make a guy not worth his contract. McDavid's teams keep missing the playoffs, guess we'd better rip up his deal.

This isn't a sport with a one-person carry ability like the NBA. Kopitar has one MVP caliber year under his belt to go with a few Selkes and many years of leading this team by 20+ points in scoring while doing all the heavy defensive lifting, and he's on his way through another MVP caliber year.

That's even more value than I thought we could get from him at this point. If I told 2014 you that after those two Cups Kopitar would have two more MVP caliber seasons, what would you say?

 

[redcard]

I am not saying they would have performed better without him, but Kopitar hasn't been a difference maker now has he.

They would have gone in a different direction, and the assets acquired in a deal for him might be bearing fruit today. We have no way of knowing for sure.

That seems a little silly to me, the assets also could have been complete duds. If you look at Atlanta trading Kovalchuk, Columbus trading Nash, Buffalo trading O'Reilly, I could make the exact same argument that 2-4 years after the trades they may have been in a better position had they kept their franchise guys. Or they may not have. We have no way of knowing for sure.

 

[Sparky206]

Philly did exactly what you wanted the kings to do when they traded Carter and Richards out of a scf team, they've done nothing in 10 years and the players went to other teams and were key players in two cups.

The cap space they saved did NOTHING

 

[kingsholygrail]

Philly did exactly what you wanted the kings to do when they traded Carter and Richards out of a scf team, they've done nothing in 10 years and the players went to other teams and were key players in two cups.

The cap space they saved did NOTHING

They didn't even hold onto Schenn or Simmonds.

 

[Zz80]

Kopitar is one of the best centers in the league for more than 10 years. Period. You pay him what he wants,otherwise he shows you middle finger, and walks away. Its just that simple....Maybe you can squeeze him to 9,5M ,but maybe he can squeeze to you 11M....

 

[Herby]

Both those trades were wins for Philadelphia. They got rid of Richards right before the bottom fell out and while Carter has had an amazing career with the Kings they got 2 guys who have been really good players for them for awhile, although Voracek is slowing down, Couturier is one of the premier two-way centers in the NHL and has been for a few seasons now.

 

[Hasbro]

No show yet tonight. The Nuggets play the Mavericks here tomorrow and should beat the storm back home from Memphis. That game I’m sure precluded moving the Kings game ahead one day.

 

[deeshamrock]

Both those trades were wins for Philadelphia. They got rid of Richards right before the bottom fell out and while Carter has had an amazing career with the Kings they got 2 guys who have been really good players for them for awhile, although Voracek is slowing down, Couturier is one of the premier two-way centers in the NHL and has been for a few seasons now.

Depends on how you define 'win'. Putting up points in the regular season means very little when you are no shows in the playoffs, which Voracek , Schenn and Simmonds , along with Giroux, were for their tenure. Giroux has never been a money player, no show every year for 10 years when they are in the playoffs.

The win was for the Kings, who got 3 WC appearaances and 2 Cups.

Richards was off to the best start his carreer, 9 goals and 21 pts in his first 24 games as a King, when he got that awful concussion end of NOv 2011 vs Florida. It took him over a year go get over that and then he got another significant head injury vs the Hawks in 2013 WC final game 1 . That was what happened, 2 head injiuries in 18 months.

It's no coincidence that the last relevant Flyers team/playoff run was in 2010, with Richards at the helm.

Lack of leadership has been an issue since he was traded.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No show yet tonight. The Nuggets play the Mavericks here tomorrow and should beat the storm back home from Memphis. That game I’m sure precluded moving the Kings game ahead one day.

Thank you, and be safe!

The idea of 'preparing for weather' is so foreign to a lot of us, heh.

 

[Herby]

Depends on how you define 'win'. Putting up points in the regular season means very little when you are no shows in the playoffs, which Voracek , Schenn and Simmonds , along with Giroux, were for their tenure. Giroux has never been a money player, no show every year for 10 years when they are in the playoffs.

The win was for the Kings, who got 3 WC appearaances and 2 Cups.

Richards was off to the best start his carreer, 9 goals and 21 pts in his first 24 games as a King, when he got that awful concussion end of NOv 2011 vs Florida. It took him over a year go get over that and then he got another significant head injury vs the Hawks in 2013 WC final game 1 . That was what happened, 2 head injiuries in 18 months.

It's no coincidence that the last relevant Flyers team/playoff run was in 2010, with Richards at the helm.

Lack of leadership has been an issue since he was traded.

The trade was a win for the Kings because Richards helped them win a cup in his first year, never said it wasn’t. But there was no Kopitar, Doughty or Quick in Philadelphia, the Flyers were not winning a SC in 12 or 13 building the team around those guys, they were correctly slotted into secondary roles behind superstars in LA, something that was not going to happen in Philly. Richards career as an effective hockey player was over less than 2 years after the trade but he still had 7 years of term left on his contract.

Philadelphia would have had no cups, no Simmonds, no Schenn and a compliance buyout check to MR after the 2014 season. So yes, I think it’s fair to call it a win for them.

The Columbus trade was just a win for hockey assets, largely because they made a great pick with what they got for Carter.

 

[deeshamrock]

The trade was a win for the Kings because Richards helped them win a cup in his first year, never said it wasn’t. But there was no Kopitar, Doughty or Quick in Philadelphia, the Flyers were not winning a SC in 12 or 13 building the team around those guys, they were correctly slotted into secondary roles behind superstars in LA, something that was not going to happen in Philly. Richards career as an effective hockey player was over less than 2 years after the trade but he still had 7 years of term left on his contract.

Philadelphia would have had no cups, no Simmonds, no Schenn and a compliance buyout check to MR after the 2014 season. So yes, I think it’s fair to call it a win for them.

The Columbus trade was just a win for hockey assets, largely because they made a great pick with what they got for Carter.

They might have if Snyder and Homer made better decisons. Richards and Carter were not the problem, which was evident after they traded them and got worse.
That team that got to the 2010 finals was a g0od team with an awful goalie (Leighton). Had HOmer known what he was doing, and signed a legit NHL goalie intstead of an awful AHL flunkie in 2010, made the right changes, then maybe they'd have had Cup success.

RIchards head injuries were the cause for the buyout, which might not have happened in Philly., that statement is illogical.

And with the talent of Kopitar, Quick and Doughty, merited littled success when the Kings lost the heart of their leadership post 2014 in Williams, Richards, Greene and Mitchell.

 

[HookKing]

The trade was a win for the Kings because Richards helped them win a cup in his first year, never said it wasn’t. But there was no Kopitar, Doughty or Quick in Philadelphia, the Flyers were not winning a SC in 12 or 13 building the team around those guys, they were correctly slotted into secondary roles behind superstars in LA, something that was not going to happen in Philly. Richards career as an effective hockey player was over less than 2 years after the trade but he still had 7 years of term left on his contract.

Philadelphia would have had no cups, no Simmonds, no Schenn and a compliance buyout check to MR after the 2014 season. So yes, I think it’s fair to call it a win for them.

The Columbus trade was just a win for hockey assets, largely because they made a great pick with what they got for Carter.

As was pointed he suffered terrible concussions playing for the Kings not Philadelphia. Bizarre logic.

 

[Herby]

As was pointed he suffered terrible concussions playing for the Kings not Philadelphia. Bizarre logic.

I don’t deal with excuses. You can that is fine, just remember at the time there were other excuses, such as the worst viral infection in history and Sutter for moving him to 4th line, but I’m just going off what I saw on the ice. He didn’t miss any games in either 2013 or 2014. Played 257 of 265 possible games for the Kings his first 3 seasons. Year 4 he didn’t play games, I don’t remember if there was an injury or it was healthy scratches to go along with the demotion to Manchester. Concussions are a thing, and a serious thing but they normally have the Deadmarsh or Pronger effect where you retire or miss significant time waiting to be cleared by doctors, they don’t normally cause you to go from the Canadian Olympic team to the Manchester Monarchs when you didn’t miss any games the previous 2 years.

His metrics, especially defensively were already beginning to fall off from his peak years with Philadelphia where he was one of the best all-around players in the league so a decline was already beginning, which isn’t uncommon for a player who played his style, but Philly should get credit for seeing that and acting, right?

You don’t think Philadelphia would have been in the awful situation the Kings were put in with his contract? His contract and the fact they got out of it is the biggest reason it’s a win for them.

 

[HookKing]

I don’t deal with excuses. You can that is fine, just remember at the time there were other excuses, such as the worst viral infection in history and Sutter for moving him to 4th line, but I’m just going off what I saw on the ice. He didn’t miss any games in either 2013 or 2014. Played 257 of 265 possible games for the Kings his first 3 seasons. Year 4 he didn’t play games, I don’t remember if there was an injury or it was healthy scratches to go along with the demotion to Manchester. Concussions are a thing, and a serious thing but they normally have the Deadmarsh or Pronger effect where you retire or miss significant time waiting to be cleared by doctors, they don’t normally cause you to go from the Canadian Olympic team to the Manchester Monarchs when you didn’t miss any games the previous 2 years.

His metrics, especially defensively were already beginning to fall off from his peak years with Philadelphia where he was one of the best all-around players in the league so a decline was already beginning, which isn’t uncommon for a player who played his style, but Philly should get credit for seeing that and acting, right?

You don’t think Philadelphia would have been in the awful situation the Kings were put in with his contract? His contract and the fact they got out of it is the biggest reason it’s a win for them.

Its highly unlikely. But one thing is for sure -- he wouldn't have suffered the same concussions.

 

[deeshamrock]

 

[Herby]

Has his faults, but he’d be a better option than Maata or MacD.