Around the League 2020-21 part 2 *Insert funny thread title here* edition

[Sleeping Dog]

Wow....that's awful

That is a horrible deal for SL, but I guess they’re paying him for that playoff run 2 years ago. NTC for 3 years, M-NTC for 3. Don’t think this one is gonna age very well.

 

[Bandit]

I’m old enough to remember when certain members of this board use to attack Kopitar and use Johanson and his “great contract” as proof Kopitar is overpaid.

Yup. Shoulda traded Kopitar for him like 5 years ago, amirite?

 

[KINGS17]

Yup. Shoulda traded Kopitar for him like 5 years ago, amirite?

The Kings have finished almost every season near DFL during Kopitar's third contract, and will likely not contend during his third contract.

I never said Kopitar was done as a player. I said his contract made no sense for this organization.

I know I was right. The evidence is the standings over the first five years of his third contract. Since the Kopitar signed his third contract the Kings have won 1 playoff game, not a series a game.

 

[Schrute farms]

I don't see how anyone can blame Kopitar for the Kings lack of success the past few years. How much more can the guy do?!? I guess you'd blame Gretzky for the horrible last three years (94-96) of his LA Kings tenure and think we should have traded him in the summer of 1993.

 

[Herby]

People shouldn't be so quick to jump on K17 for being wrong, everyone that has been here long enough has had some spectacular whiffs.

I remember Colten Teubert being called the next Scott Stevens on this board.

 

[Master Yoda]

The Kings have finished almost every season near DFL during Kopitar's third contract, and will likely not contend during his third contract.

I never said Kopitar was done as a player. I said his contract made no sense for this organization.

I know I was right. The evidence is the standings over the first five years of his third contract. Since the Kopitar signed his third contract the Kings have won 1 playoff game, not a series a game.

Kopitar's contract wasn't the reason their drafting sucked from 2011~2014. Part of the reason obviously was the lack of high picks, but even so, they didn't draft anyone that contributed anything during the lean years except Pearson. And I could actually extend that period to the 2020 draft and only Roy started meaningful contribution last year and Kempe this year.

Obviously the more recent draftees haven't had enough time to develop and contribute but the point is had they drafted 2 NHL players each year (DL said drafting 2 NHL players would be a successful draft, or something to that effect), and didn't make those desperation trades at the end of DL's tenure (Lucic/Bishop), they would've iced a competitive team.

 

[HookKing]

The Kings have finished almost every season near DFL during Kopitar's third contract, and will likely not contend during his third contract.

I never said Kopitar was done as a player. I said his contract made no sense for this organization.

I know I was right. The evidence is the standings over the first five years of his third contract. Since the Kopitar signed his third contract the Kings have won 1 playoff game, not a series a game.

Blake wasn't GM when Kopitar was re-signed.

 

[HookKing]

People shouldn't be so quick to jump on K17 for being wrong, everyone that has been here long enough has had some spectacular whiffs.

I remember Colten Teubert being called the next Scott Stevens on this board.

Except he keeps doubling down.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings have finished almost every season near DFL during Kopitar's third contract, and will likely not contend during his third contract.

I never said Kopitar was done as a player. I said his contract made no sense for this organization.

I know I was right. The evidence is the standings over the first five years of his third contract. Since the Kopitar signed his third contract the Kings have won 1 playoff game, not a series a game.

Kopitar is also one of the reasons why the team hasn't been embarrassing to watch. Are you going to ignore all of the positive traits that he brings, like Vilardi and other young prospects looking up to him as a leader? Scratch that, we've been told he's also a terrible leader on here.

Now do Ryan Johansen.

 

[Herby]

Except he keeps doubling down.

True, but so do a lot of people when they are wrong. There are still posts to this day saying "The Kings won 2 cups because of the Richards trade" even though he was the worst player on the roster for the 2nd one. There were people championing him even after he was demoted to the minors.

I wanted to trade Quick and go with Bernier. Others wanted the Kings to sign Brad Richards and Scott Gomez. All of those things probably prevent championships from being won.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

True, but so do a lot of people when they are wrong. There are still posts to this day saying "The Kings won 2 cups because of the Richards trade" even though he was the worst player on the roster for the 2nd one. There were people championing him even after he was demoted to the minors.

I wanted to trade Quick and go with Bernier. Others wanted the Kings to sign Brad Richards and Scott Gomez. All of those things probably prevent championships from being won.

But it's even more dumbfounding to see the amount of disrespect Kopitar gets from Kings fans. He may go down as one of the most important (and arguably best) players in franchise history, but some fans treat him like he's one of the team's biggest problems.

I can't wrap my head around that one and can't make any sense of it. And I've been critical of Kopitar's play as well, particularly when he relies on his go-to-move on the PP, but even that's gotten better this year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kopitar's contract wasn't the reason their drafting sucked from 2011~2014. Part of the reason obviously was the lack of high picks, but even so, they didn't draft anyone that contributed anything during the lean years except Pearson. And I could actually extend that period to the 2020 draft and only Roy started meaningful contribution last year and Kempe this year.

Obviously the more recent draftees haven't had enough time to develop and contribute but the point is had they drafted 2 NHL players each year (DL said drafting 2 NHL players would be a successful draft, or something to that effect), and didn't make those desperation trades at the end of DL's tenure (Lucic/Bishop), they would've iced a competitive team.

Even with the lack of picks, they were snagging NHLers every draft...

2012: Pearson, Colin Miller (no 2nd, 3rd)
2013: Kubalik, Brodzinski (no 1st, 3rd)
2014: Kempe, Amadio
2015: Cernak, Wagner, Roy, (Dergachyov) (no 1st)
2016: Clague, (Moverare), (no 1st, 3rd)
2017: Vilardi, JAD, Anderson, (villalta, Hults)

Most of it as you point out was a purge via trade and the lack of high-end talent due to missing picks and trading some of those to-be NHLers to keep competitive. That's not a 'drafting' problem, that's an asset management in pursuit of championships problem. Might be splitting hairs since we're arriving at essentially the same conclusion, but I'm pointing out our drafting/development team was making chicken soup out of chicken shit for a while there with no 1st round pick most of the time and extremely late 1sts the rest.

But it's even more dumbfounding to see the amount of disrespect Kopitar gets from Kings fans. He may go down as one of the most important (and arguably best) players in franchise history, but some fans treat him like he's one of the team's biggest problems.

I can't wrap my head around that one and can't make any sense of it. And I've been critical of Kopitar's play as well, particularly when he relies on his go-to-move on the PP, but even that's gotten better this year.

Most underrated player in the NHL, but the only one who takes so much shit at home, too.

I feel terrible for Vilardi/Byfield/Turcotte no matter what they do. Impossible shoes to fill.

 

[cyclones22]

You all need to consider season ticket holders too. I have friends that have been ticket holders for decades. It would've been a revolt had the Kings tossed Kopi and Doughty out the door because of cap reasons when they're still productive. You're talking about 2 of the 5 greatest Kings in franchise history. The paying fanbase would've been livid.

The point is that there are more considerations at play than just eh, we're overpaying these guys if we keep them, let's trade them away for youth for the rebuild. If you don't have any foundational pieces to help the rebuild, you're going to be rebuilding forever. Drew helps develop Mikey and in turn, Mikey helps Drew play at a high level for longer. Kopi helps Vilardi and I hope as soon as next season, helps Byfield break in.

 

[Bandit]

People shouldn't be so quick to jump on K17 for being wrong, everyone that has been here long enough has had some spectacular whiffs.

I remember Colten Teubert being called the next Scott Stevens on this board.

I dunno if you're referring to me or not, but neither I nor the post I quoted mentioned anyone by name, nor do I invenst the effort to keep a running tally of who has what opinion (unless it's something impossible to forget, like kubalikgate). I just remember there was plenty of sentiment once upon a time to trade Kopitar for Johanson, and now his contract is even worse than Kopitar's.

 

[Herby]

How to determine the value of the indispensable Zach Hyman

Great read on one of the most underrated players in the league. So much for being a product of other people.

 

[KINGS17]

Blake wasn't GM when Kopitar was re-signed.

Luc Robitaille's fingerprints are all over Kopitar's third contract. Still Dean did make a mistake with it after saying that kind to deal wasn't even in the same ballpark as what he wanted to offer.

Dean was on very thin ice at the time, and was going to go down with Sutter and the ship. I think Dean was taking full responsibility for the Mike Richards fiasco, which was the beginning of the end and the Lucic trade.

 

[kingsholygrail]

The Kings have finished almost every season near DFL during Kopitar's third contract, and will likely not contend during his third contract.

I never said Kopitar was done as a player. I said his contract made no sense for this organization.

I know I was right. The evidence is the standings over the first five years of his third contract. Since the Kopitar signed his third contract the Kings have won 1 playoff game, not a series a game.

How do you know they would have performed better without Kopitar?

 

[KINGS17]

Except he keeps doubling down.

How have I doubled down? The team has performed in the standings almost exactly as I said it would. The Kings have received little to no value from Kopitar's third contract when it comes to performance in the standings or the playoffs. Again, 1 playoff game won since being under this contract.

 

[KINGS17]

How do you know they would have performed better without Kopitar?

I am not saying they would have performed better without him, but Kopitar hasn't been a difference maker now has he.

They would have gone in a different direction, and the assets acquired in a deal for him might be bearing fruit today. We have no way of knowing for sure.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I am not saying they would have performed better without him, but Kopitar hasn't been a difference maker now has he.

They would have gone in a different direction, and the assets acquired in a deal for him might be bearing fruit today. We have no way of knowing for sure.

So you're must mentally masturbating over possibilities. Consider what it would look like to the rest of the league if the Kings dumped every star after good performances. Who would sign here? Who would stay?

 

[KINGS17]

You all need to consider season ticket holders too. I have friends that have been ticket holders for decades. It would've been a revolt had the Kings tossed Kopi and Doughty out the door because of cap reasons when they're still productive. You're talking about 2 of the 5 greatest Kings in franchise history. The paying fanbase would've been livid.

The point is that there are more considerations at play than just eh, we're overpaying these guys if we keep them, let's trade them away for youth for the rebuild. If you don't have any foundational pieces to help the rebuild, you're going to be rebuilding forever. Drew helps develop Mikey and in turn, Mikey helps Drew play at a high level for longer. Kopi helps Vilardi and I hope as soon as next season, helps Byfield break in.

Most of the comments I see on this board talk about how Doughty needs to have a guy to support his play, not how Doughty is "developing" his partner. Which is it?

 

[KINGS17]

So you're must mentally masturbating over possibilities. Consider what it would look like to the rest of the league if the Kings dumped every star after good performances. Who would sign here? Who would stay?

When did I say "dump every star after good performances"? Never.

You guys act as if players today, or in five years will say, "Did you see how they treated Kopitar? OMG, they traded him to a contending or up and coming team to get something of value. Hope that never happens to me, where the team I am playing for has had a run which is clearly over trades me to a team who might be playing in June for a Stanley Cup." Gimme a break.

 

[Master Yoda]

Even with the lack of picks, they were snagging NHLers every draft...

2012: Pearson, Colin Miller (no 2nd, 3rd)
2013: Kubalik, Brodzinski (no 1st, 3rd)
2014: Kempe, Amadio
2015: Cernak, Wagner, Roy, (Dergachyov) (no 1st)
2016: Clague, (Moverare), (no 1st, 3rd)
2017: Vilardi, JAD, Anderson, (villalta, Hults)

Most of it as you point out was a purge via trade and the lack of high-end talent due to missing picks and trading some of those to-be NHLers to keep competitive. That's not a 'drafting' problem, that's an asset management in pursuit of championships problem. Might be splitting hairs since we're arriving at essentially the same conclusion, but I'm pointing out our drafting/development team was making chicken soup out of chicken shit for a while there with no 1st round pick most of the time and extremely late 1sts the rest.




Most underrated player in the NHL, but the only one who takes so much shit at home, too.

I feel terrible for Vilardi/Byfield/Turcotte no matter what they do. Impossible shoes to fill.

I was mostly pointing out the 2011~2014 picks which produced Pearson, Miller, Kubalik, and Kempe (I'm not counting Brodzinski or Amadio as decent NHLers) of which only Pearson contributed anything to the Kings teams in the last 5 years.
I agree that they didn't have a whole lot to work with, but they still had 2 firsts and 4 seconds during those four years and they completely missed on all 4 of their seconds (McKeown, Lintuniemi, Zykov, Gibson).
They've had some really good drafts over the years, especially early in the first rebuild and also from 2015 on, but between 2011~2014, only 2012 can be considered decent. And that really hurt them from staying competitive.

 

[KINGS17]

People shouldn't be so quick to jump on K17 for being wrong, everyone that has been here long enough has had some spectacular whiffs.

I remember Colten Teubert being called the next Scott Stevens on this board.

I thought I was wrong once, but you know what? I was wrong.

 

[deeshamrock]

Looks like the Jackets might be moving Savard out for a forward, as has been rumored