I don't think anyone touches him. just pointed him out as it is such a fall
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I don't think anyone touches him. just pointed him out as it is such a fall
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Anders Lee? But yeah he's a much better skater than Luc at least. And he's definitely a rarity at this point.
I don't know that I really, really like Shore, but he serves a useful purpose on a good team that doesn't need him to eat big minutes. His #1 job is to go out and win a faceoff in his own zone, and keep the puck out of his own net. I bet he rarely crosses the opponent's blue line. If I was Babcock I would be telling him, "As soon as you clear the puck from our zone, get over here and change, so I can get Matthews out there."
That doesn't mean you really like him. It just means you're capable of a realistic evaluation of a guy's role and without throwing some uber-strange venom at a guy who has done literally nothing wrong to this team.
He's really in a great situation in TO for that. They've got all their money tied up in Matthews and Tavares and other offensive players; Shore is a super-cheap effective meal ticket for going out and doing exactly what you're describing. Apparently that's controversial though.
Dwight King and Nick Shore are two guys who have pissed off a not-insignificant amount of this fan base for simply daring to exist.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I guess asking for a slight bit of production from a center who was being groomed to be a #3 center is completely unreasonable and unrealistic.
Nic Dowd turned into that player for the Caps. Shore is barely an NHLer.
Nic Dowd turned into that player for the Caps. Shore is barely an NHLer.
A week until the sharks are back in vegas. I'm still curious if anything else comes out about certain gambling issues.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I don't remember anyone ever saying Shore was going to be the 3C, and even if they did, I guess that's reason enough to chase his career around and complain about him?
Also, lmao at your evaluations of the two players, despite the extreme defensive deployment of Shore there's a whopping 2-point-pace difference between them:
Nic Dowd: 209 Games, 19 goals, 33 assists, 52p....career 20p pace.
Nick Shore: 253 Games, 16 goals, 39 assists, 55p...career 18p pace.
Yep, those two points man, difference between an effective 3C and a barely-an-NHLer. And that's completely ignoring Shore's defensive abilities.
No, asking for production from a guy isn't unreasonable and that's the reason Shore never developed into more. But it's not because he's a terrible hockey player. He was just redundant on this team and has found his perfect niche on another team. Most people would be happy for the dude. But...
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Shore found a perfect niche? Go ask Leafs fans what they think of him. They are saying the same exact things critics of him said about Shore during his time with the Kings. There's no unique or difficult to find skill he brings to the table. That's also why he's not an every day player in their lineup.
And who knew looking up a guys stats constitutes for tracking them down, as if I spend an arduous amount of time trying to make shit shine.
You don't remember Shore being brought in as Stoll's replacement? A less physical and less productive version of Stoll who couldn't even stick with the Senators and the Flames didn't care for him either. I guess they need to dig harder to find underlying numbers, eh?
And who knew looking up a guys stats constitutes for tracking them down, as if I spend an arduous amount of time trying to make shit shine.
You don't remember Shore being brought in as Stoll's replacement? A less physical and less productive version of Stoll who couldn't even stick with the Senators and the Flames didn't care for him either. I guess they need to dig harder to find underlying numbers, eh?
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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I had hopes of Shore being a 3rd line C. Others did, too. It didn't work out that way.
Hockey was also slower, especially Kings hockey.
Shore is a depth player. He's a warm body who will play his role and play within his means, but his offense never grew.
Hockey was also slower, especially Kings hockey.
Shore is a depth player. He's a warm body who will play his role and play within his means, but his offense never grew.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Unlike Shore, Nic Dowd has gotten better and posted 8 goals and 22 points last season as a fourth liner. That’s getting great value out of a bottom sixer. Let me know when Shore posts similar numbers.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Nick Shore scored 6 goals and 17 points as a 4th liner on the Kings. And 19 in 64 the season he was traded.
I thought you were kidding at first but wow you're really doubling down on this "Dowd is the far superior player" thing.
Again I don't get why people hate shore so much but will care so much for any other fourth liner du jour, that's the only reason this confusion exists.
The Tikkanen
Pest
Cause he was another scoop of vanilla ice cream on top of a bowl of vanilla ice cream. The Kings have a redundancy problem with players skill sets and personalities, too many of the same old sam old.
bouncesonly
Registered User
Isn't he mostly used for defensive face offs? His shift is probably done after exiting their zone.
Choralone
Registered User
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Brave to write this for the Leafs fanbase, but still:
Bourne: In trying to be ahead of the curve, did the...
paywalled, sorry, but sort of the gist:
"The question is really just “has the game moved away from toughness and toward skill at a fast enough rate that the teams that got out ahead of that shift can have real success?” Hockey has moved a bit toward skill-with-smiles from safe-with-snarl, but I wonder if all the quotes we’ve seen from a team like Tampa Bay speak to the fact that they’re seeing it hasn’t actually shifted as fast as maybe they bargained for, and that a lot of what made teams of old successful is still very, very relevant. "
Bourne: In trying to be ahead of the curve, did the...
paywalled, sorry, but sort of the gist:
"The question is really just “has the game moved away from toughness and toward skill at a fast enough rate that the teams that got out ahead of that shift can have real success?” Hockey has moved a bit toward skill-with-smiles from safe-with-snarl, but I wonder if all the quotes we’ve seen from a team like Tampa Bay speak to the fact that they’re seeing it hasn’t actually shifted as fast as maybe they bargained for, and that a lot of what made teams of old successful is still very, very relevant. "
Has the league really moved all that much? The Blues last season deployed a forecheck straight out of the 2012 Kings playbook. Same with VGK from the year prior and the caps were rolling out Wilson on the top line that same finals. The playoffs are still a battle no matter how much the analytics bloggers want to tell you otherwise.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Looks like Pens are without Crosby for a few weeks. Kiss first overall goodbye rest of the league we all know who's getting Lafreniere.
tny760
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 20,782
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agreed, and until we start rolling out 12 more forwards on defense, or we start just sending cherry picking icing cancel plays every single breakout, it's gonna stay that way i think. pressuring defensemen with a suffocating or physical forecheck and plugging the neutral zone still wins hockey games, they're just not skilled enough to get away from the pressure every time
But, but... pundits and fans would have you believe Kings hockey was mainly based on luck and Jonathan Quick
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
It hasn't, which is the thesis of the article. TB and TOR tried TOO hard to get ahead and it bit them as a great team is a great team regardless of 'style', and now both teams are looking for the grit other top-end teams used to smoke them.
AKA DL was right and the 'flavor of the month' thing is trash. Of course, he didn't acknowledge the limitations of his own team in time, but he was right about the copycat arms race.
tny760
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 20,782
- 22,654
i like the gray bandana
desperately trying to not get anyone shot on the way home
desperately trying to not get anyone shot on the way home
Leafs lost again and are now sitting in 12th place in the Eastern Conference and have a negative goal differential. They have a game tomorrow and will be relying on a rookie goaltender to stem the tide. It's actually quite impressive how Dubas has seemed to utterly f*** up at every single opportunity. He took over a young team that had just put up 105 points and gone to 7 games against the Bruins in the playoffs. He had a number 1 center, number 1 winger, another top line winger, a number 1 defenseman, number 1 goalie and a slew of complimentary players.
His first season included handing out the then most second most expensive contract in the league to Tavares even though the team was already second in the league in GF. This contract led to them losing a significant amount of depth and having a new benchmark set for his young players.
Failing to lock up M and M when he could, this one was probably his biggest f***up.
Waiving the reliable backup that the coach trusted in favor of his guy from the Marlies. Sparks ended up only winning 8 of 17 games and posting a .902 save percentage, he was replaced by the end of the year.
Having a contract standoff with Nylander until the very last moment before giving in. This led to Nylander essentially missing the whole season because he never got back up to speed.
Trading a 1st and 2 good prospects for Muzzin. Probably the right idea, but holding onto young, cost controlled assets is kind of crucial when you have no cap space.
Trading Par Lindholm for Nic Petan. not really a huge trade, but completely went against what his coach was asking for. Trading a solid defensive minded center for a smallish offensive guy seems kind of pointless.
Handing out the second most expensive contract to Matthews and only buying 2 UFA years. Probably the worst contract handed out to a RFA and what made it worse is there was absolutely no pressure to do it at the time.
That team ended up finishing with 100 points, 5 points less than the year prior. They were only 2 points away from missing the playoff altogether.
His second season includes trading a gritty, defensive center(who has shown 30+ goal capability) locked up on a sweetheart contract for a smallish, offensive minded defenseman(despite finishing 2nd in the league in GF the year prior).
Trading a 1st round pick to get out of 1 season of Marleau's cap hit.
Having another prolonged contract dispute with Marner, leading to animosity before eventually caving to give him 10.8x6, again unable to even buyout the max UFA years.
Start the season with Hutchinson as the backup goaltender who proceeds to lose all 5 games he starts and ends up being waived.
It honestly feels like he has f***ed up damn near every move he made and now the team is on pace for 86 points and we are nearing Thanksgiving. They are completely f***ed capwise because they have already utilized the LTIR to go over the cap with Horton/Clarkson, so there is no real possibility to improve the team. How he has gotten such a pass is beyond me.
His first season included handing out the then most second most expensive contract in the league to Tavares even though the team was already second in the league in GF. This contract led to them losing a significant amount of depth and having a new benchmark set for his young players.
Failing to lock up M and M when he could, this one was probably his biggest f***up.
Waiving the reliable backup that the coach trusted in favor of his guy from the Marlies. Sparks ended up only winning 8 of 17 games and posting a .902 save percentage, he was replaced by the end of the year.
Having a contract standoff with Nylander until the very last moment before giving in. This led to Nylander essentially missing the whole season because he never got back up to speed.
Trading a 1st and 2 good prospects for Muzzin. Probably the right idea, but holding onto young, cost controlled assets is kind of crucial when you have no cap space.
Trading Par Lindholm for Nic Petan. not really a huge trade, but completely went against what his coach was asking for. Trading a solid defensive minded center for a smallish offensive guy seems kind of pointless.
Handing out the second most expensive contract to Matthews and only buying 2 UFA years. Probably the worst contract handed out to a RFA and what made it worse is there was absolutely no pressure to do it at the time.
That team ended up finishing with 100 points, 5 points less than the year prior. They were only 2 points away from missing the playoff altogether.
His second season includes trading a gritty, defensive center(who has shown 30+ goal capability) locked up on a sweetheart contract for a smallish, offensive minded defenseman(despite finishing 2nd in the league in GF the year prior).
Trading a 1st round pick to get out of 1 season of Marleau's cap hit.
Having another prolonged contract dispute with Marner, leading to animosity before eventually caving to give him 10.8x6, again unable to even buyout the max UFA years.
Start the season with Hutchinson as the backup goaltender who proceeds to lose all 5 games he starts and ends up being waived.
It honestly feels like he has f***ed up damn near every move he made and now the team is on pace for 86 points and we are nearing Thanksgiving. They are completely f***ed capwise because they have already utilized the LTIR to go over the cap with Horton/Clarkson, so there is no real possibility to improve the team. How he has gotten such a pass is beyond me.
The Tikkanen
Pest
There are suite tickets to the Knights-Kings game right now for $27. Season ticket sales for next season will set an all time low record.
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