Around the League 2018-19 Offseason Part II

[Darkauron]

fart

God that trade is shitty. Why even f***ing bother?

 

[Colin226]

Tweet of the Week:

 

[Billdo]

Tweet of the Week:

Yet we got punished

 

[My3Sons]

I'm not ignoring that. I too think he will resign.

But if thats all true, then there is no reason that he won't do it on or around July 1, 2019. If he does not, then you have to move him. If he's thrilled with the organization, then he'll sign. If he's not, then he won't, and no amount of praises sung on podcasts can make up for the lack of a signature at that point. It's black and white as of this coming July 1.

I think it depends upon when the organization floats him the first offer. If they are trying to figure out bonus versus salary that might take a few days. To me the issue isn't July 1. It's whenever the organization reaches its final bottom line with structure. At that point, if Hall says I'll think about it, you move on from him. Again, while I share your sentiments about how to handle the situation, I'm confident he wants to re-up and that the organization will pay him the market rate without flinching. Again, my belief is his agent asks for 12 and then Shero asks them to please take something closer to 10 to help pay some of the young players as the NJ cap space gets eaten up by second contracts. They settle somewhere between 10 and 11 and there is much rejoicing.

 

[Billdo]

I think it depends upon when the organization floats him the first offer. If they are trying to figure out bonus versus salary that might take a few days. To me the issue isn't July 1. It's whenever the organization reaches its final bottom line with structure. At that point, if Hall says I'll think about it, you move on from him. Again, while I share your sentiments about how to handle the situation, I'm confident he wants to re-up and that the organization will pay him the market rate without flinching. Again, my belief is his agent asks for 12 and then Shero asks them to please take something closer to 10 to help pay some of the young players as the NJ cap space gets eaten up by second contracts. They settle somewhere between 10 and 11 and there is much rejoicing.

Hopefully the 10-11 is the case

 

[Better Call Sal]

Tweet of the Week:

I f***ing love Dave Lozo.

 

[Zezel22]

I think it depends upon when the organization floats him the first offer. If they are trying to figure out bonus versus salary that might take a few days. To me the issue isn't July 1. It's whenever the organization reaches its final bottom line with structure. At that point, if Hall says I'll think about it, you move on from him. Again, while I share your sentiments about how to handle the situation, I'm confident he wants to re-up and that the organization will pay him the market rate without flinching. Again, my belief is his agent asks for 12 and then Shero asks them to please take something closer to 10 to help pay some of the young players as the NJ cap space gets eaten up by second contracts. They settle somewhere between 10 and 11 and there is much rejoicing.

Yeah, I said "On or around July 1". I'm not literally saying by midnight on July 2nd you have to trade him. I LOVE Hall. He should be captain right now, regardless of this very contract situation we are discussing. But I'm just saying, we can talk about all the positive signs we want - and I too love to see them - if they are genuine, they will translate to a signature in very early July 2019. Otherwise, as brutal as it will be, you have to act. You have to.

 

[My3Sons]

Hopefully the 10-11 is the case

He could command about 12 to the highest bidder most likely but presumably he trusts Shero and knows the direction the team is headed and he “settles” for about 10-15 % less.

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah, I said "On or around July 1". I'm not literally saying by midnight on July 2nd you have to trade him. I LOVE Hall. He should be captain right now, regardless of this very contract situation we are discussing. But I'm just saying, we can talk about all the positive signs we want - and I too love to see them - if they are genuine, they will translate to a signature in very early July 2019. Otherwise, as brutal as it will be, you have to act. You have to.

As difficult as that would be I agree with you 100%.

 

[Brodeur]

Hopefully they raise a banner in Arizona for Kruger. May 2017 - slightly later 2017.

 

[Triumph]

Never forget that the NHL decided to penalize the Kovalchuk contract (which had 3 years of $1 million salary, not directly at the end) whereas Hossa's contract has 4 years of $1 million, all directly at the end

We would have picked around 11th in 2014. We could have had one of Larkin, Fabbri, Fiala, Schmaltz, Tuch, Sanheim, or Vrana

Kovalchuk's initial contract is the one that was penalized and that had 6 years at minimum salary ($525,000 IIRC)

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Kovalchuk's initial contract is the one that was penalized and that had 6 years at minimum salary ($525,000 IIRC)

but that contract never was official so how could it be punished?

 

[Zezel22]

He could command about 12 to the highest bidder most likely but presumably he trusts Shero and knows the direction the team is headed and he “settles” for about 10-15 % less.

Then you have to take more out for taxes, which like it or not is becoming a topic with some in the league. NJ is not the worst but not the best. Well situated in bottom half of league as far as most beneficial places to place tax wise. Could impact how willing a player is to give a big discount when youre already taking a haircut automatically. Just saying.

 

[Triumph]

but that contract never was official so how could it be punished?

What? If you offer a contract that circumvents the CBA, it is immediately void. If you do it in bad faith, which is what the arbitator found, then you are subject to penalties. Every so often teams still screw up and blow the math on a contract, the league refuses to accept it, and so they have to re-submit. None of these teams has faced a penalty.

 

[NJDevs26]

What? If you offer a contract that circumvents the CBA, it is immediately void. If you do it in bad faith, which is what the arbitator found, then you are subject to penalties. Every so often teams still screw up and blow the math on a contract, the league refuses to accept it, and so they have to re-submit. None of these teams has faced a penalty.

From what I remember the arbitrator said he did not find evidence it was done in bad faith. He only ruled it violated the CBA, but we were still punished unlike any other team.

Lamoriello statement on arbitrator ruling

We have reviewed and respect Arbitrator Bloch's ruling in the Kovalchuk matter. We also note and appreciate his finding that nothing in his opinion should be read as suggesting that either the club or Ilya Kovalchuk operated in bad faith or on the basis of any assumption other than that the Standard Player Contract was fully compliant with the CBA. That has been our consistent position throughout.

 

[Triumph]

From what I remember the arbitrator said he did not find evidence it was done in bad faith. He only ruled it violated the CBA, but we were still punished unlike any other team.

Lamoriello statement on arbitrator ruling

Yeah, I guess he didn't have to - it was up to the NHL to decide on penalties once it was ruled that the contract was invalid.

 

[Billdo]

Kovalchuk's initial contract is the one that was penalized and that had 6 years at minimum salary ($525,000 IIRC)

It doesn't matter though, that contract was never official anyway. The fact remains that they were penalized for something that quite a few other teams did. Granted, the Devils took it to the extreme but it was not even a rule at the time. It's like receiving a traffic citation for a law that doesn't exist but should.

 

[Triumph]

It doesn't matter though, that contract was never official anyway. The fact remains that they were penalized for something that quite a few other teams did. Granted, the Devils took it to the extreme but it was not even a rule at the time. It's like receiving a traffic citation for a law that doesn't exist but should.

But the CBA has a clause within in that even if there's no law against something, the NHL reserves the right to deem anything against the spirit of the agreement and strike it down. Now if you're arguing that the NHL should've struck down the Hossa deal, I'm in full agreement there too. But the Kovalchuk deal had more minimum salary years in it than all of the back-diving deals combined.

 

[Patrik26]

He could command about 12 to the highest bidder most likely but presumably he trusts Shero and knows the direction the team is headed and he “settles” for about 10-15 % less.

Then you have to take more out for taxes, which like it or not is becoming a topic with some in the league. NJ is not the worst but not the best. Well situated in bottom half of league as far as most beneficial places to place tax wise. Could impact how willing a player is to give a big discount when youre already taking a haircut automatically. Just saying.

Would dealing with the disparity in location/taxes be something that would be part of the next CBA? I'd imagine things could get quite ugly between owners too, let alone the guaranteed owners vs players.

 

[NJDevs26]

Would dealing with the disparity in location/taxes be something that would be part of the next CBA? I'd imagine things could get quite ugly between owners too, let alone the guaranteed owners vs players.

This is Bettman and Fehr, literally the two most obstructionist figures in sports collective bargaining history this side of Marvin Miller - they'll find something to argue about and keep everyone home till mid-January again.

But the CBA has a clause within in that even if there's no law against something, the NHL reserves the right to deem anything against the spirit of the agreement and strike it down. Now if you're arguing that the NHL should've struck down the Hossa deal, I'm in full agreement there too. But the Kovalchuk deal had more minimum salary years in it than all of the back-diving deals combined.

Hell they should have punished the Sens on Daniel Alfredsson's deal after the fact when he flat admitted there was cap circumvention (granted he actually played under the circumvention year).

Alfredsson admits to cap-circumvention

 

[Triumph]

The taxes thing is way overblown on this site. Yeah, Canadian teams have to pay guys a little more, and teams in states without income tax can pay a little less. It's not make-or-break.

 

[Billdo]

The taxes thing is way overblown on this site. Yeah, Canadian teams have to pay guys a little more, and teams in states without income tax can pay a little less. It's not make-or-break.

I mean I don't necessarily think it matters that much when you're THAT rich but if there are penny pinching guys I'd imagine it does hold some water. Just for simple math purposes if a guy can make $100 in Texas or Florida and that same check only clears for $65 in NJ, which would you think they'd take?

 

[Zezel22]

The taxes thing is way overblown on this site. Yeah, Canadian teams have to pay guys a little more, and teams in states without income tax can pay a little less. It's not make-or-break.

I agree that its not make or break. However, when you're asking for a "hometown discount"... technically... its already a discount to sign NJ (or other high tax locations - relax everyone, not just NJ) if you are to be pursued by some of the magic tax places. So to expect a guy to take a FURTHER discount on top of that works out to be a decent chunk of change.

Still not a crazy concept at all if a guy is a leader, wants to be where he is, loves his organization... all traits Hall seems to exhibit. But its not crazy to think it will be at least part of the conversation with his agent at some point.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

A guide to bargain hunting in what's left of the 2018 NHL...

Good article from the Athletic that demonstrates how limited this FA pool really was after the big names signed.

From what's left, there isn't much to get excited about and most likely we'll PTO one or two of these guys at best. I would be all about a Dan Hamhuis short term deal but would not be opposed at all to riding Butcher and Mueller into the start of the season.

Count me in for loving the idea of a Lee Stempniak reunion but he's probably on his last legs at this point.

What about one year deal or PTO for Jannik Hansen (RW) or Alex Chiasson (RW)? Both of them would be right handed replacement for Gibbons. Though if Anderson or McLeod takes a roster spot in the training camp there isn't much room for them.

Jannik Hansen:
"The three-year list starts with Jannik Hansen, thanks to some time with the Sedin twins and despite his utter inability to score goals last season. I still like Hansen, who provides a physical element and defensive conscience and who just might see his shooting percentage rebound, as a bottom-six option but given his age there’s a non-zero chance that his goals are just gone for good."

I wouldn't hate Hamhuis (LD) or Enstrom (LD) either, if one of them signs one year deal with the Devils. However, I'm not sure they would be upgrade when compared to Santini or Müller.

Brandon Davidson and Dan Hamhuis both own positive shot metrics and negative goal differentials. Hamhuis continues to play tougher minutes, and although his shot metrics have steadily eroded since his heyday in Vancouver he’s a solid defenceman for the bottom half of the depth chart.

Toby Enstrom and Johnny Oduya are both long-time NHL defenders who looked respectable last year next to high-end partners (Dustin Byfuglien and Erik Karlsson, respectively). Given their ages and circumstances a step down from last year is highly probable, although in the right situation either might be serviceable in a complementary role.

 

[Triumph]

I mean I don't necessarily think it matters that much when you're THAT rich but if there are penny pinching guys I'd imagine it does hold some water. Just for simple math purposes if a guy can make $100 in Texas or Florida and that same check only clears for $65 in NJ, which would you think they'd take?

I mean, does all of that tax money go for nothing? They're different locales with different pluses and minuses. In addition, players get taxed according to where they played hockey, not their home games - so even players who play in Florida and Texas pay income tax in the other states/provinces/whatever where they play during the course of a season.

Yeah, all else being equal, people will take the no-tax state. That's not how life generally works, though.