Around the League '18-'19

[King'sPawn]

We're discussing a player who people are jumping the gun over. Zykov has played a total of 12 NHL games. Would he be nice to have? Yeah, any asset would at this point, but there's no guarantee if he's here that he's even sniffing the roster. It's a lot of grass is greener stuff and literally no one was complaining until they saw a tweet. I bet no one has even blinked about Cernak or McKeown in the last year or two either because after a bunch of tears after what a great NHLer McKeown was going to become, he's even a longshot at this point. My point is only that people jump right on the stuff they perceive as negative, and whether or not the trade is a 'non-issue' in hindsight, we're back to completely disregarding context.

I'm not sure how lack of people complaining about Zykov is evidence that people don't care until now. Some of us don't constantly complain about bad moves, but I've been saying since day one this was a bad move. So have K17 and others.

The context is a valuable young player who was years away was deemed expendable by management trying to go all in and make the playoffs when the core and next wave of players weren't cutting it.

The Cernak for Bishop trade was simply bad because they waited until Quick was healthy before trading for him, instead of after game 1 of the season.

McKeown for Sekera would have been palatable if they managed to extend him or trade a player like Martinez who played a similar role and function.

In CONTEXT, Lombardi spent the future to bring in older players they could not have all retained, capwise. So it was either desperation moves, poor planning, or hubris. Either way, the Kings are where they are because of these moves.

I'm not even going to address Zykov-for-Versteeg being even remotely parallel to Vilardi-for-Patches because I think even you will realize how foolish that sounds to team context as well as player value.

I still think Zykov for Versteeg is ultimately such a marginal trade to complain over, yes. There are much greater ones that can be looked up on as "mistakes" and I'll still chastise them in similar fashion because the team context--going for it--was similar. I think we're all aware that we mortgaged the future to 'win now' for years and now we're left holding the bag, I just want people to move the **** on from a minor trade for ultimately middle six wingers two and a half ****ing years ago under a completely different team context. Yes, it's a waste of an asset, but yes, it's a marginal one compared to the other things we've endured. All I'm saying is it's a mountain over a molehill over two similar players and Zykov hopes he can have the career Versteeg has had, the trade was clearly made because we needed the player everything apparently thinks Zykov is going to be right now but we needed him 3 years ago, and it is what it is.

I guess we'll see how well Zykov does this year. He has 8 points in 12 NHL games. Better than Versteeg's time with the Kings. Hell it's a better scoring pace than Toffoli or Pearson have ever put up. Would you have traded Toffoli or Pearson for Versteeg? Because the offensive potential of a young player in this age range is SORELY MISSING in this organization.

It's not about marginalizing bad moves, it's about contextualizing moves, and pretending this stuff is happening in a vacuum is very unlike you.

So is it possible I'm not pretending this is happening in a vacuum and it is actually a symptom of some very bad moves which set the team back?

Hell who would he beat out here? We have JAD and Vilardi to contend with after the Etem invite and the residual guys who should have been pressing--hell, you could argue Brodzinski is a better player based on production at various levels and you see how people here feel about him. Does this team really hurt for another bottom-six type average-skating winger?

The same Jonny Brodzinski who had his first AHL game at the age of 22, where Zykov had his first NHL game at 21 (and scored a goal)? You want to argue Brodzinski's better?

I'm not saying Zykov would be a superstar, but he would at least make a fight for a top 6 role interesting.

 

[LAK74]

So we don't have an alternate jersey this year? Lame.

There will be one; it just won’t be revealed until later.

 

[redcard]

So we don't have an alternate jersey this year? Lame.

This year 3rd jersey games are being played as shirts vs skins.

We drew skins.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not sure how lack of people complaining about Zykov is evidence that people don't care until now. Some of us don't constantly complain about bad moves, but I've been saying since day one this was a bad move. So have K17 and others.

The context is a valuable young player who was years away was deemed expendable by management trying to go all in and make the playoffs when the core and next wave of players weren't cutting it.

It doesn't mean you don't care period, but it's a 2.5 year old trade that people are complaining about regarding a player who has yet to do anything of note. It's simultaneously retroactive AND preemptive crystal ball complaining.You're welcome to do it, but it's very annoying and really doesn't contribute much. At least let him put up 50 points before saying "I told you so."

The Cernak for Bishop trade was simply bad because they waited until Quick was healthy before trading for him, instead of after game 1 of the season.

McKeown for Sekera would have been palatable if they managed to extend him or trade a player like Martinez who played a similar role and function.

In CONTEXT, Lombardi spent the future to bring in older players they could not have all retained, capwise. So it was either desperation moves, poor planning, or hubris. Either way, the Kings are where they are because of these moves.

I think we all agree on this, though. The reaction to it is what we disagree on. Are we going to audit every point every former King/prospect scores in the NHL? It's just getting f***ing tiresome watching people come up with reasons to be negative.

I guess we'll see how well Zykov does this year. He has 8 points in 12 NHL games. Better than Versteeg's time with the Kings. Hell it's a better scoring pace than Toffoli or Pearson have ever put up. Would you have traded Toffoli or Pearson for Versteeg? Because the offensive potential of a young player in this age range is SORELY MISSING in this organization.

Uh, no, Tyler Toffoli has actually surpassed that over a whole season, and I'm almost certain I could audit the entire Kings' roster and every top sixer and likely most bottom sixers will have scored 8 in 12 at some point. Two words: Sample. Size.

The same Jonny Brodzinski who had his first AHL game at the age of 22, where Zykov had his first NHL game at 21 (and scored a goal)? You want to argue Brodzinski's better?

I'm not saying Zykov would be a superstar, but he would at least make a fight for a top 6 role interesting.

This is emblematic of the double-standard.

Brodzinski is a random prospect who people think is (was, sadly) fighting for a depth roster spot.

Yet a player with similar production/background would be in a fight for a top-six spot because...reasons?

And no, I think Zykov has the higher ceiling personally, but he'd be in the same spot here as Brodz is all I'm saying...and you see how this forum felt about Brodz until this preseason. Yet here we are pumping Zykov's tires simply because he's wearing red.

I will absolutely concede that having an NHL-ready prospect like Zykov would be nice particularly because we don't have any his age. You can never have too many and I like his game. I like that style of hockey more than just about anyone on this forum if the last two years is any indication.

 

[King'sPawn]

It doesn't mean you don't care period, but it's a 2.5 year old trade that people are complaining about regarding a player who has yet to do anything of note. It's simultaneously retroactive AND preemptive crystal ball complaining.You're welcome to do it, but it's very annoying and really doesn't contribute much. At least let him put up 50 points before saying "I told you so."

It's topical though, few prospects are playing, and the season hasn't started. If people keep detracting every thread in the future during the season, I agree. But I don't think pointing out what a mistake trading Zykov was, at this moment, is unreasonable.

I think we all agree on this, though. The reaction to it is what we disagree on. Are we going to audit every point every former King/prospect scores in the NHL? It's just getting ****ing tiresome watching people come up with reasons to be negative.

You brought up the other prospects. People were responding to Zykov competing for a top line. Toffoli and Pearson are battling it out on the third line. This is a symptom of not enough talented youth which NEEDS to be addressed sooner or later.

Uh, no, Tyler Toffoli has actually surpassed that over a whole season, and I'm almost certain I could audit the entire Kings' roster and every top sixer and likely most bottom sixers will have scored 8 in 12 at some point. Two words: Sample. Size.

8 points in 12 games is 61 points in 82 games. Toffoli has never hit 60 points. I was talking about pace.

But okay, sure. Toffoli has had 12 game stretches where he has outpaced that. The point is that NHL production is important, and throwing away the first 12 games of a career and dismissing it as sample size is disingenuous. You know how excited everyone here would be to have the first 12 NHL games of his career be scoring at a 60 point pace?

This is emblematic of the double-standard.

Brodzinski is a random prospect who people think is (was, sadly) fighting for a depth roster spot.

Yet a player with similar production/background would be in a fight for a top-six spot because...reasons?

Brodzinski isn't failing to win a top 6 role due to talent (or lack thereof). You know that.

Multiple NHL coaches don't trust him to play in a top 6 role. He plays too timidly. He's one dimensional with his skillset. If he isn't scoring in the top six, there's no fit.

And no, I think Zykov has the higher ceiling personally, but he'd be in the same spot here as Brodz is all I'm saying...and you see how this forum felt about Brodz until this preseason. Yet here we are pumping Zykov's tires simply because he's wearing red.

You are free to think that about others. When have I ever said another prospect is better just because he's a Hurricane/not a King? I've never been high on Brodzinski, and I've been fair on my criticisms of prospects.

Zykov would be closer to fighting with Toffoli and Pearson than fighting with Brodzinski

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's topical though, few prospects are playing, and the season hasn't started. If people keep detracting every thread in the future during the season, I agree. But I don't think pointing out what a mistake trading Zykov was, at this moment, is unreasonable.

You brought up the other prospects. People were responding to Zykov competing for a top line. Toffoli and Pearson are battling it out on the third line. This is a symptom of not enough talented youth which NEEDS to be addressed sooner or later.

8 points in 12 games is 61 points in 82 games. Toffoli has never hit 60 points. I was talking about pace.

But okay, sure. Toffoli has had 12 game stretches where he has outpaced that. The point is that NHL production is important, and throwing away the first 12 games of a career and dismissing it as sample size is disingenuous. You know how excited everyone here would be to have the first 12 NHL games of his career be scoring at a 60 point pace?


Brodzinski isn't failing to win a top 6 role due to talent (or lack thereof). You know that.

Multiple NHL coaches don't trust him to play in a top 6 role. He plays too timidly. He's one dimensional with his skillset. If he isn't scoring in the top six, there's no fit.


You are free to think that about others. When have I ever said another prospect is better just because he's a Hurricane/not a King? I've never been high on Brodzinski, and I've been fair on my criticisms of prospects.

Zykov would be closer to fighting with Toffoli and Pearson than fighting with Brodzinski

Maybe I'm being more curmudgeon-y than I need to be about it here, but I distinctly remember being one of the only people defending Zykov's game and future at the time he was traded, so I feel like hearing about it again on this end is like...oh really? Now you guys care about Zykov?

I agree on Brodzinski. But Zykov isn't too different. Better on the boards and more suited to a bottom six role? Absolutely. A top-sixer? Well, the jury's out. He might be on the Carolina Hurricanes--a smaller, speedier team who is distinctly lacking the big, gritty element--but he also got that role on a worse offensive team than the Kings and got points riding shotgun next to Aho on a team closer to the lottery than the playoffs. So Yeah, I'm going to take that sample size--as well as the role--with a large grain of salt instead of bringing that back here with the mindset of "oh, look another successful prospect away from the Kings" when there are just as many examples of those who have fizzled out. Especially given I don't see him beating anyone out here, people would have been losing their mind getting another "Kings style pick" on the roster.

It may be topical, but it's a totally pointless exercise for anything but venting because it was a trade from several seasons ago in a different situation with a different front office that has minimal impact on the current roster. "Not enough talented youth" has plenty of more impactful focal points than Zykov that will lead to much more productive conversations/theorizing. Maybe not so much in your case, but the only path this leads down is right back to "DL blew it, we suck, we have no future."

I love you guys, I'm just saying I vociferously disagree that this point is worth our breath at this point. I obviously won't stop people discussing it and I'll step away now that I've said my say, I just see it as an unproductive way of dwelling on the past.

 

[King'sPawn]

Maybe I'm being more curmudgeon-y than I need to be about it here, but I distinctly remember being one of the only people defending Zykov's game and future at the time he was traded, so I feel like hearing about it again on this end is like...oh really? Now you guys care about Zykov?

I agree on Brodzinski. But Zykov isn't too different. Better on the boards and more suited to a bottom six role? Absolutely. A top-sixer? Well, the jury's out. He might be on the Carolina Hurricanes--a smaller, speedier team who is distinctly lacking the big, gritty element--but he also got that role on a worse offensive team than the Kings and got points riding shotgun next to Aho on a team closer to the lottery than the playoffs. So Yeah, I'm going to take that sample size--as well as the role--with a large grain of salt instead of bringing that back here with the mindset of "oh, look another successful prospect away from the Kings" when there are just as many examples of those who have fizzled out. Especially given I don't see him beating anyone out here, people would have been losing their mind getting another "Kings style pick" on the roster.

It may be topical, but it's a totally pointless exercise for anything but venting because it was a trade from several seasons ago in a different situation with a different front office that has minimal impact on the current roster. "Not enough talented youth" has plenty of more impactful focal points than Zykov that will lead to much more productive conversations/theorizing. Maybe not so much in your case, but the only path this leads down is right back to "DL blew it, we suck, we have no future."

I love you guys, I'm just saying I vociferously disagree that this point is worth our breath at this point. I obviously won't stop people discussing it and I'll step away now that I've said my say, I just see it as an unproductive way of dwelling on the past.

I get it. And I'm sorry if you think I'm complaining or bringing negative energy.

This trade still stings to me, and I never liked it. I just don't want to see it happen again if I can help it.

What sucks more is there's little to talk about at the moment.

 

[Bandit]

I get it. And I'm sorry if you think I'm complaining or bringing negative energy.

This trade still stings to me, and I never liked it. I just don't want to see it happen again if I can help it.

What sucks more is there's little to talk about at the moment.

Don't worry about that. Tomorrow at this time we'll have another preseason game under our belts and everyone can talk about how this season is already flushed.

 

[kilowatt]

Don’t meant to throw fuel on the fire, but points also aren’t everything. We’ve got Iafallo pencilled in on the first line after scoring 9 goals and 25 points in 75 games last year as well as Kempe on the second line after scoring 16 goals and 37 points in 75 games this year.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Don’t meant to throw fuel on the fire, but points also aren’t everything. We’ve got Iafallo pencilled in on the first line after scoring 9 goals and 25 points in 75 games last year as well as Kempe on the second line after scoring 16 goals and 37 points in 75 games this year.

Tangibles ! Lol. Iaffalo definitely fits the tangibles criteria and I’m hoping his totals go up this year . With Kempe though he has untapped potential and hopefully breaks out this year with Carter and Kovalchuk. His speed won’t be wasted with these too let’s see what he does .

 

[KINGS17]

So we don't have an alternate jersey this year? Lame.

With Luc picking the uniforms, you can have a lame alternate uniform or no alternate uniform. Which do you prefer?

 

[BigKing]

I hated the Versteeg trade at the time as I am not a fan of the player whatsoever.

I'm a defender of DL more than many on this site, but I've always criticized this one and the Cernak one. They are either bad draft picks or bad trades. Regardless, they were both wastes of assets with Zykov being more egregious since they traded up for him in the first place.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Just be glad you guys aren't a Flyers fan right now....WTF were they thinking....

 

[Bandit]

Just be glad you guys aren't a Flyers fan right now....WTF were they thinking....

What? You mean because they hired Justin Turner to be their mascot?

 

[Vamos Rafa]

With Luc picking the uniforms, you can have a lame alternate uniform or no alternate uniform. Which do you prefer?

The former. We have one of the most boring uniforms in the league. Might as well have something different once in a while.

 

[redcard]

What? You mean because they hired Justin Turner to be their mascot?

I can see how you might get confused, but that's not Justin Turner.

That's a 3 month collection of the hair from Justin Turner's shower drain.

 

[KopitarFAN]

That's a healthy raise.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Is there a different Shea Theodore somewhere?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In former Kings news, Hudson Fasching is placed on waivers, and Kevin Gravel and Christopher Gibson clear waivers.

 

[Martyros]

we were high on Fasching once.

 

[deeshamrock]

Just be glad you guys aren't a Flyers fan right now....WTF were they thinking....

"they' were thinking after doing peyote. Horrid. But it did create quite the media storm.
I hope every parent who is holding a small child on their lap at the games, when the kid pees in horror, sues Comcast.

It's like having Hartnell back...same hair.

 

[KingsHockey24]

"they' were thinking after doing peyote. Horrid. But it did create quite the media storm.
I hope every parent who is holding a small child on their lap at the games, when the kid pees in horror, sues Comcast.

It's like having Hartnell back...same hair.

Apparently it was based off Carrlyn Bathes dad Frank.

 

[Reaper45]

we were high on Fasching once.

I never understood it

 

[deeshamrock]

NHL Players Lacking Waiver Exemption Who Could Be On The Move - MyNHLTradeRumors.com NHL Players Lacking Waiver Exemption Who Could Be On The Move

In the above article, it noted Matt Moulson is on loan to the Ontario Reign.

Players that could be on the move, Duclair, Girgensons, Garrett Sparks, Marco Dano, Martin Frk, and Josh Leivo

 

[tonellisghost]

I am all geeked out about Duclair. We don't need him at all but he has a bunch of skill.