Around the League '18-'19
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Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
If Lombardi refused to fire Sutter, then the organization had every right to let Lombardi walk the plank.
I also don't see what he would have done any differently that would have made the team any better. He had three years after 2014, and the results from that point on speak for itself.
I pointed out earlier how many former Cup winning GMs were eventually let go. Stan Bowman has also lost his luster in Chicago and he's likely on his way out if they fail to deliver this season. Just like coaches, GMs also have an expiration date, and that gets accelerated after a series of miscalculations.
The Tikkanen
Pest
With fans having direct contact with players, coaches and management on social media I don't think you're gonna see too many long tenured positions.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
lol at people knocking King now and yet when he was here i was lol at for doing it wow some people i tell yeah
Because King was a very effective player during those years, he was great with Stoll and Williams during the 2014 run and was the kind of guy who could play with Carter or Kopi and not look totally out of place if someone got hurt or they wanted to spread out the scoring. It was the combination of the game getting faster, and King, who was never a good skater to begin with losing a step. He was crap his final two seasons here, but he was an asset his first 4. Hell, this team would kill for a 15/15 3rd line winger right now. Which is what King was on the 2014 team.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Dwight King was a serviceable player up until the end of the 2015 season. After that season, he seemed less engaged physically and was a lumbering oaf who Darryl Sutter relied upon quite often.
In his last season with the team, King's average ice time ranked among the top six among Kings forwards. That's on Darryl Sutter.
In his last season with the team, King's average ice time ranked among the top six among Kings forwards. That's on Darryl Sutter.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
I think you have very selective memory herby but I don't doubt u remember it the way you do. I started complaining about King when he was getting the 2 most mins a game at the left wing position which started to happen in the 2014 season. I will agree he was effective when he was held to 3rd line mins and most of my posts back then back me up with that fact. However most night he played more mins the other so called top 6 wingers. He got more mins the pearson in most games and in some more then Gaborik . If u don't believe me go look it it up. He was crap the min he started playing up the lineup and i was among the first to point this out. You in particular said he was fine playing with carter and kopitar. We have been this this conversation a lot and here we are 3 years later with my favorite player Clifford still here (who u hate) and said would be long gone before either nolan or king . How did that work out for you?
Also the year he did score the 15 goals he didn't play 3rd line mins in my opinion. in at least 44 of his games he had over 15 mins of ice time which is more then a 3rd line player plays imo . So u can call him playing as a 3rd line player but in most of his games that year he got 2nd line mins. So here we go again
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
I disagree i think it ended in 14 when he got moved up out of his 3rd line spot however i agree with the rest of your statement It wasn't Kings fault he was only doing as asked the blame is solely on management. I would also blame Dean for not finding a proper top 6 wing for kopitar to take the mins away from King.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
I believe Clifford is a fringe NHL player but acknowledge the organization loves him, even though I think it's incorrect. Maybe you are right and maybe he'd be valued anywhere, or maybe he'd be a Mitchell, Shore, Richards, King another LA bottom six player who ends up struggling to find work elsewhere in the league.
I still think your assessment of King is incorrect and you disliked King because he ended up being a more effective player than Kyle Clifford, whom you admittedly are a big fan of.
I still think your assessment of King is incorrect and you disliked King because he ended up being a more effective player than Kyle Clifford, whom you admittedly are a big fan of.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
I believe if Clifford was given the same mins as King he would have put up better numbers. The only thing King had over Clifford was the opportunity to get the mins from Sutter that Clifford never got. Clifford was told to play physical which he did and for that reason never got the same chance as king. Yes Clifford got a period or 2 to play up with Carter and Kopitar but never full game or even a few in a row/ For the amount of mins he played and the amount of hits he record he was among league leads before he had his concussions. Yet despite his concussions he still hold a roster spot reason is no one has taken the job he does from him. Clifford bleeds king colors and has done all that was asked of him as a king. His job was to play physical and he does.
Well ty for at least acknowledging the organization loves him that is something u were unwilling to do years ago so some progress I guess. No again your assuming crap because u still don't get why i didn't like King. So i will try one more time to get it thru to u (and a few others like u) I had no issues when King was playing 3rd line or better yet i will say i liked him best on the forth line with Clifford . My issue with King starts with the fact he never had the speed to play with Carter or Kopitar This makes King have to cheat to the top of the circles in the defensive zone and lessens his ability to play defense. He doesn't have the speed to keep up with the transition to the offensive zone. He also doesn't have the skill to make plays at top speed so he was next to useless playing with carter and Kopitar unless the center made a great play to him even them most of the time he messed it up. I got frustrated that the kings didnt try anyone else in his place. I believe someone in the ahl should have been given a chance at the very worse I think Lewis would have been a better player then king cause at least Lewis has speed to keep up with the play. I cant disagree with you more on King being more effective then Clifford but you and I can agree to disagree on this point as we have for many years.
I agree I think it is time to move on from Clifford although I admit that I have been judgemental of him for years. He had flashes of speed and promise when he was younger, but I think all of that has been punched out of his head. He is one of the worst fighters I have ever seen in the league and I think his concussions have held him back. He is overpaid and if we find anyone that would take his deal I would move it. The spot would be better served given to a prospect.
The Tikkanen
Pest
The way the NHL is now and for how much he gets paid I'm shocked Clifford is still on the team. But that could be because there are no other NHL teams want him.
Kingsfan1
Registered User
Clifford would have been gone long ago . The organization knows he’s overpaid and isn’t very good . That’s why they always mention Clifford with character and bringing culture . He has intangibles lol
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
- 25,052
- 21,322
He definitely seemed very promising when he was younger 100%. And yeah he's garbage at fighting now except if it's Polak.
Clifford is the most irrationally liked player I've ever seen on this board. Right up there with post-concussion Richards, and the exclusive Dwight King fan club.
I bet there are still people who get half chubs for whatever reason when they think of Fraser.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
Since he's so bad, why would any other team want him? People say trade him, as though he has some sort of value, even though nobody needs him or his contract.
His salary is larger than his cap hit, so he's not going anywhere since he's so bad and out of place in a speed league. At the very least, he'll stick around this season, and probably next year too. Maybe they buy him out in June, but that'll be about it. It's easier to accept it than it is to torment ourselves over the fact that he's still a King. He'll get his 7 goals and 14 points each season, give or take. If they re-sign him again, then complain, but Lombardi isn't here anymore to ruin everything because of emotional connections to the past, so we'll have to wait and see.
Basilisk
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2012
- 1,925
- 375
I look back at the Richards trade. At the time, Simmonds and Clifford had very similar value, albeit different styles of play. There were quite a few people relieved that it was Simmonds who went the other way and not Clifford. What a difference half a dozen years make!
The Tikkanen
Pest
I think hockey is the only major sport where you regularly hear how good a player is everywhere but the playing field like you hear with Clifford. It's like a girlfriend telling you you're not the smallest guy she's ever been with.
deeshamrock
Registered User
Elliotte Friedman: The Ottawa Senators have offered $5 million for their salary arbitration case with Mark Stone, with Stone asking for $9 million. It could be a record arbitration case ruling on this one.
STone's good but not that good...
Vegas is too low...
STone's good but not that good...
Vegas is too low...
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
There's mountains of evidence Clifford is a good player for his role. People just want to replace him because "hurrrr he's been here too long."
I can't think of how many stories we've seen over the years where guys are flat out intimidated by Clifford in the gym, he's an inspiration and a leader, and he's actually a damn good player for the 4th line. There are much worse guys in his role around the league and I'm not going over rosters again to prove it to people who are willfully blind.
Clifford provides play, culture, toughness, and stability. Maybe he's overpaid, I can get on board with that argument. Suggesting he's garbage or not an NHLer is tripe and frankly, as usual, out of touch with context of what NHL 4th liners look like.
I can't think of how many stories we've seen over the years where guys are flat out intimidated by Clifford in the gym, he's an inspiration and a leader, and he's actually a damn good player for the 4th line. There are much worse guys in his role around the league and I'm not going over rosters again to prove it to people who are willfully blind.
Clifford provides play, culture, toughness, and stability. Maybe he's overpaid, I can get on board with that argument. Suggesting he's garbage or not an NHLer is tripe and frankly, as usual, out of touch with context of what NHL 4th liners look like.
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Is Clifford actually slow? Seems there is a little confusion between speed and a lack of hands.
tny760
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 20,782
- 22,654
seriously, dude is the lynchpin to their operation and tom f***in wilson is pulling $5M
One thing I'm not clear on in arbitration. Can an arbiter take into account that there's no state taxes?
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