Around the League 15-16 Part 3

[Ziggy Stardust]

Coffey hardly played a lick of defense, but you bet your ass he had a huge hand in the Oilers' dynasty and was a big reason why that team was a juggernaut.

The Sens can get any plug to make up for his mistakes. What Karlsson does on the ice is a rarity among dmen today.

 

[kingsfan28]

If you want to think that fine, he certainly plays an offensive style but it's way off to call him a 4th forward. The best facet of the game is his ability to carry the puck not only out of his own zone but through the neutral zone to create offensive chances. It amazes me how undervalued that is by some, especially since the Kings in years past have had defenders not capable of passing the puck effectively out of the zone, much less skating it out.

And people always mention Tarasenko as a "what-if", I think having Drew Doughty and Erik Karlsson on the same team with Quick in goal we would be in the middle of a dynasty.

That's a lot of cash on the blueline to pay out, especially how both guys contracts were up at the same time.. Thinking along those lines, would he have been traded to get Carter or would JJ still been enough? My guess EK would've been traded see how he was the better player.

 

[Ron*]

07:30:



Edit: Meh. Can't get it to work. This is what I was looking for: [Youtube] Sutter is asked about Jesus' performance after game 5 against the Ducks in the 2014 SC playoffs.

Just post the part of the URL after last backslash and enclose it in "YT" vBulletin tags.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I have no problem with Karlsson winning the Norris. I think it should go to the best d-man, whether that be an Erik Karlsson type or a Rod Langway type.

Karlsson does some things from the blueline that I have never seen a defender do.

I feel the same way, but people need to stop defending his actual "defensive" play

 

[Ron*]

The Ducks broadcast has turned into an extended commercial about the Ducks projected practice facility in Irvine.

 

[KINGS17]

If you want to think that fine, he certainly plays an offensive style but it's way off to call him a 4th forward. The best facet of the game is his ability to carry the puck not only out of his own zone but through the neutral zone to create offensive chances. It amazes me how undervalued that is by some, especially since the Kings in years past have had defenders not capable of passing the puck effectively out of the zone, much less skating it out.

And people always mention Tarasenko as a "what-if", I think having Drew Doughty and Erik Karlsson on the same team with Quick in goal we would be in the middle of a dynasty.

When Doughty does this you can tell the other team craps their pants. The thing with Doughty though is he picks his spots, like at the end of a period or when the Kings are down by a couple of goals.

I wish Doughty took off Bobby Orr style more often, but I understand why he doesn't do it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I have no problem with Karlsson winning the Norris. I think it should go to the best d-man, whether that be an Erik Karlsson type or a Rod Langway type.

Karlsson does some things from the blueline that I have never seen a defender do.

Coffey hardly played a lick of defense, but you bet your ass he had a huge hand in the Oilers' dynasty and was a big reason why that team was a juggernaut.

The Sens can get any plug to make up for his mistakes. What Karlsson does on the ice is a rarity among dmen today.

I'm 100% fine with that.

I'm not 100% fine with the myths that he's an 'all-situation defenseman' and one relied on heavily in defensive situations. You can't fault a guy for his deployment, and in some ways it's smart coaching to save a guy to exploit a team after a PK, but you can't also say on top of that that he's even great on defense. He's good at defense on a good day. The Mike Green comparison is more apt than people will ever admit.

I have issues with the award more than I do this issue anyway, though. For every 'good' PWHA vote there's 2-3 who just slap whatever on there without doing their homework. I mean, I DONT think Doughty deserved it last year, but when a guy gets the most first place votes by a significant margin, but loses because more people thought Karlsson was NOT the best defenseman in the world, there's an issue. And then to hold that against Doughty and in favor of Karlsson is just completely injust, and that's the drivel that gets perpetuated through the media, even on NHL.com. It's awful.

I think we're living in a fantastic era with a lot of unique defensemen and really all of them are in unique circumstances. It's fun. It's good for debate. Most people aren't very well-equipped for that, unfortunately, and many of those are in the media.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

When Doughty does this you can tell the other team craps their pants. The thing with Doughty though is he picks his spots, like at the end of a period or when the Kings are down by a couple of goals.

I wish Doughty took off Bobby Orr style more often, but I understand why he doesn't do it.

I'd love to see what Doughty could do all season if he were held off the PK and given a partner like 2012 Scuderi and just told to go play offense with reckless abandon.

 

[ru4reals]

If you want to think that fine, he certainly plays an offensive style but it's way off to call him a 4th forward. The best facet of the game is his ability to carry the puck not only out of his own zone but through the neutral zone to create offensive chances. It amazes me how undervalued that is by some, especially since the Kings in years past have had defenders not capable of passing the puck effectively out of the zone, much less skating it out.

And people always mention Tarasenko as a "what-if", I think having Drew Doughty and Erik Karlsson on the same team with Quick in goal we would be in the middle of a dynasty.

To think we could have had both!

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I accepted that Doughty is not as good offensively as Karlsson a long time ago. It is what it is. Doughty is a Chelios. Karlsson is a Coffey.

 

[TheSentinel]

that was a bad shortie attempt by the flames, they couldn't maintain the O-zone 5on5 and they thought they could go into the Ozone 2v2.

 

[kingsfan28]

How about that Calgary defense?

 

[Drumstick Handler]

Just post the part of the URL after last backslash and enclose it in "YT" vBulletin tags.

Total newb going at it, thanks! Of course I could've seen it by quoting any post with an embedded video in it.

Have the Flames really not won in Anaheim in 12 years now?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I still don't understand why the Pacific is so bad. These teams shouldn't have fallen off THAT much since last season, even with rational explanations.

 

[Ron*]

I still don't understand why the Pacific is so bad. These teams shouldn't have fallen off THAT much since last season, even with rational explanations.

For Calgary and Anaheim, all you have to look is as far as the goalie position.

 

[Herby]

That's a lot of cash on the blueline to pay out, especially how both guys contracts were up at the same time.. Thinking along those lines, would he have been traded to get Carter or would JJ still been enough? My guess EK would've been traded see how he was the better player.

I love Carter , but no way if the Kings had Karlsson would they have moved him for Carter. Karlsson won the Norris at 21 the year that the Kings got Carter.

Carter is a really good all-star caliber center, Karlsson is a generational type talent.

 

[Ron*]

Oh.

And Vancouver and Edmonton as well.

 

[ru4reals]

I accepted that Doughty is not as good offensively as Karlsson a long time ago. It is what it is. Doughty is a Chelios. Karlsson is a Coffey.

LOL was just thinking about the Chelios Coffey comparison. Would you have traded Chelios straight up for Coffey in their prime. Pretty much would you trade Doughty right now for Karlsson. I prolly wouldn't but for I love Drew but not gonna lie though the thought of Karlsson with this team might be something.

 

[Ron*]

Getzlaf with five assists.

Jesus H. Christ. Nice defense, Calgary. Awesome.

 

[Omni Owl]

How about that Calgary defense?

Pretty ****ing baffling with that group they have on paper.

 

[Herby]

LOL was just thinking about the Chelios Coffey comparison. Would you have traded Chelios straight up for Coffey in their prime. Pretty much would you trade Doughty right now for Karlsson. I prolly wouldn't but for I love Drew but not gonna lie though the thought of Karlsson with this team might be something.

I think for the Kings I would prefer Doughty, the way our roster is set-up we have enough difference makers up front where you take the more reliable defensive player. If I were in charge in Ottawa I think I keep Karlsson because their offense would suffer greatly without him.

If I were starting fresh, probably take Doughty by a hair, but it's close. I think these are clearly the two best defenseman in the league right now and both are destined for the HOF one day, likely as first ballot guys.

And guys, the Norris is not only about points, you guys who say that severely sell Karlsson short, what Karlsson does game in and game out is special, he could easily get outscored this year by Klingberg, but no way will Klingberg sniff the Norris because points don't tell the whole story.

 

[Little Psycho]

Getzlaf with five assists.

Jesus H. Christ. Nice defense, Calgary. Awesome.

Ahem....just like Colorado last season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think for the Kings I would prefer Doughty, the way our roster is set-up we have enough difference makers up front where you take the more reliable defensive player. If I were in charge in Ottawa I think I keep Karlsson because their offense would suffer greatly without him.

If I were starting fresh, probably take Doughty by a hair, but it's close. I think these are clearly the two best defenseman in the league right now and both are destined for the HOF one day, likely as first ballot guys.

And guys, the Norris is not only about points, you guys who say that severely sell Karlsson short, what Karlsson does game in and game out is special, he could easily get outscored this year by Klingberg, but no way will Klingberg sniff the Norris because points don't tell the whole story.

Yep, Karlsson is THE offensive catalyst in Ottawa, hence his deployment. But I think you're onto something re: what they mean to their teams and who you would pick for either roster, it's very situational. Like I said, though, I'd love to see what Doughty could do with Karlsson's deployment (i.e. not played on the PK, kept fresh and unleashed on strictly offense, full green light with reckless abandon).

I don't at all think Karlsson gets sold short, though. I think many other defensemen get overlooked because of what he does, and I don't mean that to cheapen what he does offensively, I mean it to draw attention to what others do defensively and in other zones. I.e. it's a crime that Weber never got a Norris, and now he likely never will, and offensive metrics are easier to read and more glamorous than defensive metrics, and really it's not just about straight-up measurables. For example, what Doughty did in playing huge minutes through last year's tire fire was remarkable, but he had no really fantastic measurables to show for it (though to be fair he did get a heap of norris votes so maybe i'm not giving people enough credit.)

 

[ru4reals]

I think for the Kings I would prefer Doughty, the way our roster is set-up we have enough difference makers up front where you take the more reliable defensive player. If I were in charge in Ottawa I think I keep Karlsson because their offense would suffer greatly without him.

If I were starting fresh, probably take Doughty by a hair, but it's close. I think these are clearly the two best defenseman in the league right now and both are destined for the HOF one day, likely as first ballot guys.

And guys, the Norris is not only about points, you guys who say that severely sell Karlsson short, what Karlsson does game in and game out is special, he could easily get outscored this year by Klingberg, but no way will Klingberg sniff the Norris because points don't tell the whole story.

Great points indeed. I know I knock Karlsson a bit for his defensive play but he is truly the best Offensive defenseman we've seen in a while. In all honesty I wish Doughty had that extra offense that for some odd reason he is lacking. I would take Doughty too though. But I'm just a homer.

 

[Herby]

Drew's points would go up in that system, but taking nothing away from Drew he is nowhere near the offensive player that Karlsson is. Karlsson is probably the best offensive blueliner we have seen since Paul Coffey and honestly he may be better because Coffey was never the offensive catalyst of his team, it makes no sense for Ottawa to limit what he does offensively by using him a ton on the PK.

As far as Weber, I guess if PK got a Norris then he deserves one to, but Doughty also doesn't have a Norris and Doughty is way better than Weber. The sad thing for Weber is he is still in his prime but he is playing with Drew Doughty and Erik Karlsson, it's going to be tough for the next little bit to beat out either one of these guys.