Around Hockey XII (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

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Socks

Stuff and Things Man
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Nov 14, 2007
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Didn't Scott throw down before play even started? I haven't read all the threads on it so I may be mistaken but it looked to me like the puck had not yet been dropped. In that case I'm really giving Kessel the benefit of the doubt. It's bad enough that Scott jumped him with no warning but to do so technically while the game was not active at the moment is flat out assault in my book.
 

Iron Balls McGinty

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Aug 5, 2005
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Didn't Scott throw down before play even started? I haven't read all the threads on it so I may be mistaken but it looked to me like the puck had not yet been dropped. In that case I'm really giving Kessel the benefit of the doubt. It's bad enough that Scott jumped him with no warning but to do so technically while the game was not active at the moment is flat out assault in my book.

I've only heard one side of the story but to my knowledge, you are partly correct.

It is my understanding the puck had not dropped yet and Kessel says Scott was going to go after him. What we do not know if what, if anything, Kessel said to Scott in order to initiate the whole thing at the time that it did. They were obviously looking at other and talking before the melee started. Its not like he got blindsided.

So yes, the puck had not dropped yet but Kessel was not blindsided.
 

Robert

Foligno family
Mar 9, 2006
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Not sure if this particular site was posted but it's clear Scott asked to fight before dropping his gloves... he even started to put his stick on the ice..

Is all Kessel had to do was say no.... instead he slashed Scott in the knee..

Miller is lucky he got off the ice, he was beat up bad...

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/118026
 

thebus2288*

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Scott in no way jumped him or threw anything. If he really wanted to, even a quick jab woulda done some damage on Kessel. The 1st slash Scott isn't even near Kessel, the 2nd one is just embarrassing as he's already tied up by 2 guys. And watch the fight before and tell me what you think of the forearm to the face. That's what pissed Scott off.
 

Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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Not sure if this particular site was posted but it's clear Scott asked to fight before dropping his gloves... he even started to put his stick on the ice..

Is all Kessel had to do was say no.... instead he slashed Scott in the knee..

Yeah, Steve Moore decided that he didn't want to fight Todd Bertuzzi. Donald Brashear decided he didn't want to fight Marty McSorley. How'd that work out for either of them?
 

Nanabijou

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Dec 22, 2009
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Scott basically said after the game that he didn't like how the previous fight went down and it was his job to send a message about it. He said he was going to go whoever lined up with him and was surprised that Carlyle sent Kessel out. So, I'm pretty sure that Kessel didn't instigate anything.

Personally, I can see what Carlyle was doing by sending Bozak and Kessel out. Unlike the Devils-Rangers line brawl from a couple of years ago where each team loaded up their brawlers for the opening face-off, he was trying to prevent things from escalating. He figured that sending that line out would let the Sabres know he wasn't interested in having a slug-fest in the preseason.

It obviously didn't work. Made for good entertainment, anyway. I despise the Leafs (have so all my life) but can't believe Scott couldn't have picked a fairer opponent to 'send his message'. I know there's alot of discussion of whether he broke the 'code' for fighters, and based on the evidence available, I say yes. He will have to answer to Orr and McLaren, and likely both, next game.

Although Scott shouldn't have gone after Kessel, I still give Kessel 1 or 2 preseason games suspension (probably 2, just because 1 preseason game is essentially meaningless). I'd turn a blind eye on the first slash and maybe even the second. Coming back at the end and trying to spear Scott puts it over the edge along with the match penalty he got for it.
 

Fro

Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Mar 11, 2009
25,316
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RT @capgeek If Clarkson & Kessel suspended & Orr, McLaren & Bolland inj, #Leafs left this opening day: 9F, 7D, 2G & $995k cap space
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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Mar 31, 2002
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Just was wondering, since he was in the CBJ organization so long, what was everyone's opinion on him? He seems to have had a huge year in the AHL last season and has carried that over to the Avs training camp.

Reason I'm asking is because he has a legitimate shot at being on the Avs opening night roster because of his play so far and wanted to see if he's maybe a late bloomer of sorts. Thanks in advance.
 

candyman82

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Mar 29, 2012
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Just was wondering, since he was in the CBJ organization so long, what was everyone's opinion on him? He seems to have had a huge year in the AHL last season and has carried that over to the Avs training camp.

Reason I'm asking is because he has a legitimate shot at being on the Avs opening night roster because of his play so far and wanted to see if he's maybe a late bloomer of sorts. Thanks in advance.

Nick Holden? He was a victim of depth and more hyped prospects entering our system. I think he can be a 6-7 defenseman.
 

Samkow

Now do Classical Gas
Jul 4, 2002
16,354
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these bryz to pittsburgh rumors make me laugh...what a mess of goaltending that would be

Bryz was a good goalie once. Maybe what happened in Philly causes him to pull his head out of his ass.

Of course, I said that about Mason every year...
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
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wow!

Mike Halford ‏@HalfordPHT 47s
Sens surprise: Ottawa ships Zibanejad to AHL Binghamton

Yep. Plus Drouin back to Juniors. Kreider got sent down. Brett Connolly (sp?) got sent back to the Cuse.

MacKinnon, Jones, Barkov, Nichuskin & Ristolainen all earn spots (at least for now) and it appears Shinkaruk did too. Horvat, Nurse, Domi all headed back to jr's.
 

FANonymous

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Nov 7, 2010
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My memory is clouded with memories of posts by Rangers' fans who said Kreider was untouchable and that they wouldn't trade him straight up for Nash.

Don't tell me you took them seriously. Clearly that was just a negotiating tactic! :sarcasm:
 

Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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Kreider Thomas Miller...the worst "best" propect package ever??

And all those months of hearing how only a complete dumbass would turn down a glorious deal like that (which was likely never on the table in the first place)....
 

Sore Loser

Sorest of them all
Dec 9, 2006
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Chris Kreider was coming off of a hot playoff that saw him legitimately turn into one of the top prospects in hockey. That one, I can understand (somewhat).

I've never been a big backer of Christian Thomas - I think his absolute ceiling is about where Derek Dorsett was when he was here ... a gritty third/fourth line winger.

JT Miller is still a solid prospect with a lot of upside, but he's still in learning mode.

All in all, I don't think any of us would have been disappointed with that package - but I don't think there's any doubting that the culture change brought on by the trade; and exacerbated by the tireless work efforts of a guy like Brandon Dubinsky - was absolutely the right move.

I would love to see, if the deal had never been made - but every other move so far had fallen into place - if a guy like Jenner would have come to camp with the same ferocity or tenacity. I really think kids feed off of what they see, and playing alongside hard working players breeds more hard working players.
 

blahblah

Registered User
Nov 24, 2005
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I would love to see, if the deal had never been made - but every other move so far had fallen into place - if a guy like Jenner would have come to camp with the same ferocity or tenacity. I really think kids feed off of what they see, and playing alongside hard working players breeds more hard working players.

I can see your point and tend to agree. But Jenner? I doubt he would approach anything different.
 

candyman82

Registered User
Mar 29, 2012
2,792
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Fredericksburg, VA
Chris Kreider was coming off of a hot playoff that saw him legitimately turn into one of the top prospects in hockey. That one, I can understand (somewhat).

I've never been a big backer of Christian Thomas - I think his absolute ceiling is about where Derek Dorsett was when he was here ... a gritty third/fourth line winger.

JT Miller is still a solid prospect with a lot of upside, but he's still in learning mode.

All in all, I don't think any of us would have been disappointed with that package - but I don't think there's any doubting that the culture change brought on by the trade; and exacerbated by the tireless work efforts of a guy like Brandon Dubinsky - was absolutely the right move.

I would love to see, if the deal had never been made - but every other move so far had fallen into place - if a guy like Jenner would have come to camp with the same ferocity or tenacity. I really think kids feed off of what they see, and playing alongside hard working players breeds more hard working players.

Jenner came into camp that way right after he was drafted
 

Mayor Bee

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Dec 29, 2008
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I can see your point and tend to agree. But Jenner? I doubt he would approach anything different.

It's tough to say, but there have been several top prospects in Columbus who were said to have a phenomenal work ethic that never demonstrated that. In particular, I remember it being said about Gilbert Brule and Derick Brassard.

The same was said about Voracek, but I'd argue that him being a goofball was only regarded as a negative when the team wasn't successful; the only difference between "the guy who keeps everyone loose" and "guy who doesn't know how to dedicate himself" is based entirely on whether the team itself is performing.
 
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