Around Hockey XII (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[db2011]

See, now you're catching on to how a hivemind works. Love the current CBJ team? Ignore the guy who acquired every single player on the ice except for Marian Gaborik; it must be other people who deserve credit.

Just watch. In two more years, the only draft pick Howson will get credit for is Nikita Filatov, while everyone else (who may or may not have been around at the time) will get the credit for Jenner, Atkinson, Johansen, and everyone else. The only trade anyone will remember is Carter and Klesla, while everyone else will be fondly remembered for the time that they acquired Bobrovsky.

Don't accost me about this, MB, I was arguing a lot last season about how the team that made the turnaround was built by XGMSH. His efforts to keep his job were not too little, too late, they were only too late.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

See, now you're catching on to how a hivemind works. Love the current CBJ team? Ignore the guy who acquired every single player on the ice except for Marian Gaborik; it must be other people who deserve credit.

"Stupid fans. Can't even think for themselves."
"How do you know?"
"Because they refuse to think the way I do!"

 

[Viqsi]

"Stupid fans. Can't even think for themselves."
"How do you know?"
"Because they refuse to think the way I do!"

There's "having the same opinion as me is the only way to prove you have any sense", and then there's factual distortion and revisionist history.

I submit that distinguishing between the two is important for all, not just for the guy who's frustrated right now.

 

[EspenK]

Seeing that the horse is not quite dead, I'll give credit to XGMSH for assembling the team. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have pulled off the trade for Gaborik though or signed Horton. Why? Just a gut feel based on his history.
The other question that remains is would he have helped inspire the team to play the way they have been. I dunno but I have my doubts. All in all, I'm glad he's gone and I'll put my faith in Jarmo.

 

[Viqsi]

Seeing that the horse is not quite dead, I'll give credit to XGMSH for assembling the team. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have pulled off the trade for Gaborik though or signed Horton. Why? Just a gut feel based on his history.

Disagree on the Horton bit, but yeah, I would have been very surprised to see Howson go after Gaborik.

I just want to see credit where credit is due. That's all.


As for the comment that actually summoned the undead horse... early extensions in Edmonton have been a phenomenon for quite some time. See: Horcoff, Shawn. And the Hall and Eberle extensions - the latter of which is somewhat regretted by Oil fans nowadays - came well before Howson got back there.

I suspect, therefore, that if one is going to attribute that trend to anyone higher up than the GM that it would be more accurately attributed to Kevin Lowe.

 

[FANonymous]

Seeing that the horse is not quite dead, I'll give credit to XGMSH for assembling the team. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have pulled off the trade for Gaborik though or signed Horton. Why? Just a gut feel based on his history.
The other question that remains is would he have helped inspire the team to play the way they have been. I dunno but I have my doubts. All in all, I'm glad he's gone and I'll put my faith in Jarmo.

I wonder what Howson would have done with the picks in this past draft. He did not have a great history with his early picks, though he was occasionally able to find a gem in the later rounds.

 

[major major]

I wonder what Howson would have done with the picks in this past draft. He did not have a great history with his early picks, though he was occasionally able to find a gem in the later rounds.

I don't even accept that generalization. His first rounders were par for the course at worst, even taking Filatov into account.

 

[Mayor Bee]

"Stupid fans. Can't even think for themselves."
"How do you know?"
"Because they refuse to think the way I do!"

I have no issue with people who disagree. I regularly butt heads with Capn and blahblah (among others), yet both of them construct generally well-reasoned opposing viewpoints. I also regularly butt heads with buttheads.

There's "having the same opinion as me is the only way to prove you have any sense", and then there's factual distortion and revisionist history.

I submit that distinguishing between the two is important for all, not just for the guy who's frustrated right now.

Thank you.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

There's "having the same opinion as me is the only way to prove you have any sense", and then there's factual distortion and revisionist history.

I submit that distinguishing between the two is important for all, not just for the guy who's frustrated right now.

I have no issue with people who disagree. I regularly butt heads with Capn and blahblah (among others), yet both of them construct generally well-reasoned opposing viewpoints. I also regularly butt heads with buttheads.

No and no.

Using the "groupthink" or, in this case, "hivemind" card is a lazy way to dismiss opposing opinion, as if to say "Your opinion doesn't matter therefore I don't have to offer a reasoned counter."

I'm supposed to somehow feel sorry for someone "who's frustrated right now?" I offer my apologies for not feeling so. Or maybe I'm just employing "group-feel?"

 

[Viqsi]

No and no.

Wait, so dissenting opinions don't universally get the benefit of the doubt? Funny, 'cause I could have sworn that was your original point. Maybe we got lost somewhere.

Using the "groupthink" or, in this case, "hivemind" card is a lazy way to dismiss opposing opinion, as if to say "Your opinion doesn't matter therefore I don't have to offer a reasoned counter."

I did attempt to offer such a reasoned counter myself, but that seems to have been ignored - probably because most people here seem tired of seeing folks continue to take swings at that grimy smeared patch of dirt where a dead horse used to be.

I would be tempted to argue that restarting that debate in such a dubious context was the more problematic step, but, well, I have to concede that said resumption only insulted sensibilities, not people.

I'm supposed to somehow feel sorry for someone "who's frustrated right now?" I offer my apologies for not feeling so. Or maybe I'm just employing "group-feel?"

I wasn't thinking "feel sorry for" so much as "not single out".

 

[Mayor Bee]

No and no.

Using the "groupthink" or, in this case, "hivemind" card is a lazy way to dismiss opposing opinion, as if to say "Your opinion doesn't matter therefore I don't have to offer a reasoned counter."

I'm supposed to somehow feel sorry for someone "who's frustrated right now?" I offer my apologies for not feeling so. Or maybe I'm just employing "group-feel?"

"Group-feel"? What is this, a Tumblr blog?

 

[Fro]

if you haven't seen it...go to TSN and watch the Sabres/Leafs line brawl...including Bernier and Miller fighting...

 

[Mayor Bee]

if you haven't seen it...go to TSN and watch the Sabres/Leafs line brawl...including Bernier and Miller fighting...

I often used to wonder how Neanderthals would have engaged in one-on-one combat, but I think John Scott just provided the answer.

 

[Sore Loser]

if you haven't seen it...go to TSN and watch the Sabres/Leafs line brawl...including Bernier and Miller fighting...

http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=pipe42/latest/1/0/1008937/clip/0#pipe42/latest

Link to the carnage. Classless acts on both sides, but notably Phil Kessel and John Scott.

 

[stevo61]

http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=pipe42/latest/1/0/1008937/clip/0#pipe42/latest

Link to the carnage. Classless acts on both sides, but notably Phil Kessel and John Scott.

Kessel did what anyone in that situation would do. Scott is an idiot and can't wait for Nov.15 when Toronto has McClaren and Orr in the lineup. Got the day circled on my calender.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Kessel did what anyone in that situation would do. Scott is an idiot and can't wait for Nov.15 when Toronto has McClaren and Orr in the lineup. Got the day circled on my calender.

Using your stick as a weapon is not what anyone would do. If that was his instinct out if fear, he should take his suspension like a man. His follow up whacks were malicious even though his initial whack might have been out of fear.

 

[stevo61]

Using your stick as a weapon is not what anyone would do. If that was his instinct out if fear, he should take his suspension like a man. His follow up whacks were malicious even though his initial whack might have been out of fear.

Well there was 2 slashes, 1 after the original and a poke. Kessel gives up 7 inches and 70lbs to a guy that really shouldnt even be in the league. If Kessel was replaced with Gaborik would it be viewed the same way? Oh well its going to be fun to watch the next few games between the 2

 

[db2011]

I wonder what Howson would have done with the picks in this past draft. He did not have a great history with his early picks, though he was occasionally able to find a gem in the later rounds.

I wonder what Jarmo did with the picks in this past draft

 

[Sore Loser]

Using your stick as a weapon is not what anyone would do. If that was his instinct out if fear, he should take his suspension like a man. His follow up whacks were malicious even though his initial whack might have been out of fear.

This is my point also ... Scott should know better than to go after another team's star. Compare it to Jody Shelley going after Pavel Datsyuk. Then, imagine Pavel Datsyuk swinging for the fences at Shelley as his teammates jumped on his back. Both guys showed little class.

If you don't want to fight, drop and tuck. It's an immediate sign to the officials that you don't want any part of it, and it's their job to protect you. Swing your stick like that, and you deserve whatever you get.

 

[Samkow]

Why having Cap Space is good.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Well there was 2 slashes, 1 after the original and a poke. Kessel gives up 7 inches and 70lbs to a guy that really shouldnt even be in the league. If Kessel was replaced with Gaborik would it be viewed the same way? Oh well its going to be fun to watch the next few games between the 2

I wouldn't view it differently. Scott is who he is. In the spirit of the high sticking rule, a player is responsible for their stick at all times. If you swing it recklessly, you should get whatever punishment is doled out as well as the instigator getting what they have coming to them.

The thing of it is that Scott didn't seem to do anything suspension worthy outside a starting a fight while the puck wasn't in play. Ultimately, I believe Kessel should have the bigger suspension simply because if the stick swinging hadn't happened, it would be a non event that would have been defused with penalty minutes, game misconducts, and Clarkson's 10 games for coming off the bench.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I wouldn't view it differently. Scott is who he is. In the spirit of the high sticking rule, a player is responsible for their stick at all times. If you swing it recklessly, you should get whatever punishment is doled out as well as the instigator getting what they have coming to them.

The thing of it is that Scott didn't seem to do anything suspension worthy outside a starting a fight while the puck wasn't in play. Ultimately, I believe Kessel should have the bigger suspension simply because if the stick swinging hadn't happened, it would be a non event that would have been defused with penalty minutes, game misconducts, and Clarkson's 10 games for coming off the bench.

Maybe it's just me, but if I have a guy 9" taller and 75 pounds heavier than me trying to jump me, I'm going to defend myself on my terms.

That said, I'm surprised that Kessel doesn't have a better golf swing; he's certainly had enough practice.

 

[FANonymous]

Why having Cap Space is good.

Or having people who understand the rules and abide by them?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Maybe it's just me, but if I have a guy 9" taller and 75 pounds heavier than me trying to jump me, I'm going to defend myself on my terms.

I agree with this for the most part. I could have done without the second swing and the much-later poke, but the first swing seems reactive to me, and I probably would have done the same.

Scott threw without giving Kessel, a guy who's a mismatch anyway, a chance to accept or decline (albeit we don't know what words were exchanged). There are only a handful of more-dishonorable things than dropping your gloves and starting to swing before (or without) the other player drops his.

McGinty is right that, having swung his stick, even if he felt it was in self-defense, should also be a tacit acceptance of a suspension.

 

[Fro]

the poke at the end just made me laugh more than anything...but yeah...it was unnecessary