BigFatCat999
First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
It was tongue firmly in cheek. I still want Joey on the team. BUT anyone else notice that all the Vancouver boys were in rumblings in trades?
Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - Looking to the offseason
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It was tongue firmly in cheek. I still want Joey on the team. BUT anyone else notice that all the Vancouver boys were in rumblings in trades?
glenngineer
Registered User
All you have to do is stay within the acceptable cap range. If you have to take some cap back, so be it. Get someone set to be an UFA. Get someone who's an AHL retread you can release at the end of the year. Take the space and go sign some actual talent up front.
I also don't get one of Carrier or Fabbro has to be moved. Yeah, let's take the only two RHD with a modicum of talent and move them. Makes total sense to me.
Porter Stoutheart
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Did I have to specify “nobody in the league will take Johansen… without us paying them a 1st round pick or retaining half his salary”? Things which aren’t even within the realm of consideration for us? Ok.
Porter Stoutheart
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No doubt… Vancouver wants to deal guys. Do we want Miller, Garland, Demko, Myers whoever are on their list? I’m hoping we don’t.
With both of them on the roster, Saros is facing more shots than at any point in recent history. There are a couple of RHD options in Milwaukee that can move up and fill the third pairing D and I highly doubt the defense would be any better or worse than it currently is.
Porter Stoutheart
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Man, I dunno about that. It relies a lot on almost completely ignoring last season. Fabbro was GOOD last season. Carrier was also better. The idea that Jordan Gross is gonna be better than those benchmarks really seems doubtful to me.
Our problem isn’t the defenders. Our problem is the system. We get cycled on for long periods of time, that’s a system issue , it takes 5
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
This is the sort of naivete w/r/t the trade market that leads to lopsided proposals and flaming. Cap reclamation trades of late hurt. And what makes you think you're going to still have space left over to "sign actual talent" at the end?
It's easy to point at guys and go "make that one go away and put that money elsewhere". If and/or when you start trying to figure out actual scenarios, that's when you realize it's not just an uphill battle - you're at the bottom of a sheer cliff. Hell, just look at the number of "cap freeing" trades that have come up lately and what they've cost. Hint: those costs were not because the players involved were useless.
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...and this attitude (which is entirely justifiable) is an excellent illustration of just how troublesome it is.No doubt… Vancouver wants to deal guys. Do we want Miller, Garland, Demko, Myers whoever are on their list? I’m hoping we don’t.
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
Yeah, I don't see how we can make that $17M go away without eating the same amount back or spending significant positive assets. Granlund or Nino alone can probably be swung, but we'd still take some kind of salary back...I'd guess at least half of what they make. Too many teams too close to the Cap and needing to re-sign their own guys/maintain flexibility.
Scoresberg
Perpetual Mediocrity
Move Sissons in the off-season and be done with it.
If the wheels completely fall off, you move Granlund and Nino next TDL.
If the wheels completely fall off, you move Granlund and Nino next TDL.
Kat Predator
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What does moving Sissons really do? His contract is pretty small. I guess you could move him and create space for two or three league minimum fodder pieces.
Sissons ain't the problem. It's the 8 millon dollar forwards wasting their time on the ice.
Sissons is the guy you keep in this situation
Porter Stoutheart
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He's having a very good season IMO. I'm not sure about the rationale for playing him at RW or on some of the weird line combinations that Hynes has come up with, but he seems to just keep on trucking regardless of those things. Somehow he leads our forwards at +8 while Granlund and Joey are -14 or -15, right? Takes all of our SH faceoffs, our PK isn't the worst thing about the team.
I guess if a playoff team came along and said he's just exactly what they are looking for as a playoff-type player and they were willing to dramatically overpay for him, like offering a 1st+, then ok, maybe if we're rebuilding and not needing to fill roles like that ourselves, we couldn't turn down that kind of overpayment. But that's really about the only way I'd consider trading him.
it's not though, $2.9M for a 4th liner.
And I like Sissons, but you can't pay a 4th liner that much. This is the spot Poile has put us in.
Predsanddead24
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Sissons has brought more value to this team this season than Granlund or Nino at a lower cap hit. His point production isn't far off of them while getting limited PP time, and he is our best defensive forward both at ES and on the PK. Plus, moving Sissons really just opens another bottom six spot instead of a top six spot like we really need to.
I'd try moving Granlund first although I do think that may be tough, and if that doesn't work out trade Nino. Nino at $4M for a single year should be pretty easy to trade and any value we get back is just a bonus since we got him as a UFA. If for some reason neither of those options work and its trade Sissons or lose a young guy like Fabbro then sure I'd trade Sissons, but I don't think we'll reach that point.
I'd try moving Granlund first although I do think that may be tough, and if that doesn't work out trade Nino. Nino at $4M for a single year should be pretty easy to trade and any value we get back is just a bonus since we got him as a UFA. If for some reason neither of those options work and its trade Sissons or lose a young guy like Fabbro then sure I'd trade Sissons, but I don't think we'll reach that point.
AintLifeGrand
Burnin Jet-A
I'd rather have JT Miller than Johansen, even with the extended term. JT Miller has and will be more productive than Johansen moving fwd.
If we trade Sissons, Granlund, Fabbro for picks and prospects we essentially offload his cap hit.
If we trade Sissons, Granlund, Fabbro for picks and prospects we essentially offload his cap hit.
Scoresberg
Perpetual Mediocrity
Trade Granlund for all I care. Just tossed Sissons name out there as I think he could be replaced (although as so could Granlund).
Porter Stoutheart
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The mistake here is classifying Sissons as a "4th liner", whereas he shakes out league-wide more as a 3rd liner. And plenty of teams pay that much for 3rd liners. But we also pay $5M and $8M for players whose performance shake out as 3rd liners. So the payroll discrepancy is actually elsewhere in our lineup.
AintLifeGrand
Burnin Jet-A
I thought the new 3rd liners are like high 30 to low 50 pt guys
Sissons hasn't scored more than like 35 pts in a season
He is a strong 4th liner
Sissons hasn't scored more than like 35 pts in a season
He is a strong 4th liner
Porter Stoutheart
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Granny is the guy. He needs to get moved this trade deadline before his value drops any more. He is ideally replaceable from within and still has enough value to not require some ridiculous payment to move. I also think Trenin is a guy that Poile has circled in his mind for the off season. Fabbro is a possibility as well if Poile is planning to stick with Hynes which seems likely.
low 50's?! Guys like Nichuskin, Danault, Trochek were low 50's type players last year. They finished around 100th overall on the scoring list for all forwards.
There are 32 teams. That means 96 players are playing "top line" minutes.
Porter Stoutheart
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I don't like that Trenin and Fabbro seemed to have ended up in the doghouse, but I think this is the reality. Whether you call Sissons a 3rd or 4th liner isn't really relevant, the bottom line is he is performing at least on par with Granlund and Johansen in our current lineup, and in that scenario it's tough to dump on the guy who is actually doing what was expected of him vs. the two guys who really aren't.
We're kind of lucky atm in that our prospect pipeline has taken a nice step forward, so we might be able to ride through whatever mistakes management makes in terms of moving out "doghouse" players. So if Trenin and/or Fabbro are added to the pile with Tolvanen, it's not going to be anything that cripples us. It will just be more along the lines of an annoyance. But still, I don't mind complaining ad nauseum here about "annoyances". That's what this place should be for!
I like sissons for his versatility and play. I dont like sissons for his caphit because hes ideally on the 4th line and near 3M for a single 4th liner is alot when you are a cap team in need of fixing the top 6.
For all the talk about the top 6 not performing, Forsberg and Duchene are currentky producing at career average rates in goals and slightly above in assists. Granlund is having his 2nd most productive season as a Predator (which is still below average for a top 6 forward). Nino is producing his standard 40ish point pace. That leaves Joey and one of the young centers. Young centers are doing good for their pay but producing more like a middle 6 than top 6. Joey is back to a 42 point pace where hes been around most of Hynes' tenure as coach.
All that to say, none of the top 6 are really performing beyond or below what we shouldve expected production wise. Joey and Granlund are performing like they have every season under hynes outside of last years resurgence while nino, duchene, and forsberg are performing per their career norms. Joey is the only one who's production has steeply declined since he got his lastest contract and his drop heavily correlates with Hynes as head coach so i have to wonder if theres more to it (but he also looks slower out there).
The top 6 as constructed just isnt good enough to carry the team. We dont have a mcdavid or draisaitl thats going to routinely put up monster numbers. We either need better top 6 forwards and push others down or more scoring from the bottom 6 to help lift team production up.
For all the talk about the top 6 not performing, Forsberg and Duchene are currentky producing at career average rates in goals and slightly above in assists. Granlund is having his 2nd most productive season as a Predator (which is still below average for a top 6 forward). Nino is producing his standard 40ish point pace. That leaves Joey and one of the young centers. Young centers are doing good for their pay but producing more like a middle 6 than top 6. Joey is back to a 42 point pace where hes been around most of Hynes' tenure as coach.
All that to say, none of the top 6 are really performing beyond or below what we shouldve expected production wise. Joey and Granlund are performing like they have every season under hynes outside of last years resurgence while nino, duchene, and forsberg are performing per their career norms. Joey is the only one who's production has steeply declined since he got his lastest contract and his drop heavily correlates with Hynes as head coach so i have to wonder if theres more to it (but he also looks slower out there).
The top 6 as constructed just isnt good enough to carry the team. We dont have a mcdavid or draisaitl thats going to routinely put up monster numbers. We either need better top 6 forwards and push others down or more scoring from the bottom 6 to help lift team production up.
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